Deaf view on a CI kid... its a bummer..

[Maria]

You REALLY have no clue. You're just tossing judgments around. Its this kind of attitude that has made so many parents who come to this forum and look for insight, support, communication to leave. I just hope Cloggy doesn't become one of them.

Well, you know what ? We will see if, her daughter grows up without sign language just because of her father's influence on her by usin' voice to get her to keep up her speech. We will see about that. We will check Cloggy's blog as how she processes. Remember that Lotte's soul, heart and mind is STILL deaf. CI will NOT change that as Cloggy wish to hope for.

 

[Roadrunner]

Mod Note:


The 'cyber-clock' is tickin' down for this thread--hence, enough with the finger-pointing, stating such and such when it isn't related to the thread--for other issues, circumstances, etc.,...use the PM feature.







~RR

 

[Tousi]

Mod Note:


The 'cyber-clock' is tickin' down for this thread--hence, enough with the finger-pointing, stating such and such when it isn't related to the thread--for other issues, circumstances, etc.,...use the PM feature.









~RR

Duly noted and because I feel this topic has a lot of value to us AND if it it is obvious that it is ONE person who is attempting to get it closed via cyber-hammer, then I trust that the mods will deal with that single person and thereby keeping this topic bipping along. If it's several of us, then gulp.....

 

[Angel]

Um Tousi, did you noticed you post that message twice, one inside RR's post and outside of his quote....



{Mod Edit: It has been removed and fixed-- ~RR}

 

[Tousi]

Um Tousi, did you noticed you post that message twice, one inside RR's post and outside of his quote....

Lol, yeah, Angel--that was for emphasis....J/K. Ummm, when I first wrote it, it would not send because the message said I had to have at least one character in the response. So I looked again and noticed RR's signature way below my response. Understanding this, I just copied and pasted * moved the message below RR's signature but forgot to erase the message that was in the wrong place, lol.

 

[jag]

Well, you know what ? We will see if, her daughter grows up without sign language just because of her father's influence on her by usin' voice to get her to keep up her speech. We will see about that. We will check Cloggy's blog as how she processes. Remember that Lotte's soul, heart and mind is STILL deaf. CI will NOT change that as Cloggy wish to hope for.

And what is Cloggy hoping to change? He's stated his daughter is deaf but hears. I understand him completely. But then I to am deaf...but I hear. I will say hearing makes life easier to live. One chooses which way one wants to travel through life. As time goes on Lotte will choose the path she wishes to persue. I have seen Cloggy state many times if/when she chooses to become involved/immersed into the deaf world they will support that choice. But Lotte will also have the choice of being able to fairly easily intergrate into a world that relies on spoken language when she so chooses.

Life is about choices, as a child the parents make those choices and no, no parent ever makes the correct choices all the time be they hearing or deaf. ( In my journey with my daughter with DS I have many times said we as parents just hope we don't screw up to much, lol) But all involved parents want to maximize the ablitliyt of their children to live in a world as it is, they want to make it easy for their child to enjoy family life, do you remember those reunions? ....we all have memories of where we missed so much because we either didn't hear at all or didn't hear well and things were going by so fast that translation or repetition from someone wasn't good? how we all felt left behind even when some did take the time but things were so delayed we still couldn't keep up? Being able to hear does give those children a chance to enjoy those times. I can see why Cloggy, Rick, Drew's dad and many others chose to take the oppertunity for their child to hear despite their deafness.

I as a former hoh/deaf adult who missed much, very much enjoy being deaf but hearing with the technology that has been developed.

As I stated if this is about language literacy for very young children then the deaf community like the Down Syndrome community needs to reach out to parents with information showing that use of both ASL and Spoken language can compliment each other. But I think also it needs to be recognized that even young children will drift to whichever language they find best suits them. And that language just might be spoken.

Now I really gotta get to work.

 

[jillio]

Really?????
Then how come when I DISAGREE, i have different opinion, I am immediately accused of disrespecting?
Clearly, a difference in opinion is granted to SOME people only, not all of us.

Fuzzy

Its not all about you, fuzzy.

 

[shel90]

I have excellent literacy skills even if my parents didn't sign, and I didn't hear well.

Higher literacy skills hardly depends on parent's ability to sign- it depends on their general attitude toward education per se.
If to a parent an education, literary skills, matters - then it reflects on their children.

The majority of the deaf parents I knew were themselves hardly educated. They had poor literacy skills, and weren't involved in their children education either.
I remember an instance when a hearing child asked his deaf parent for healp with basic math. the parent didn't learn math himself either so he just shrugged: "I dunno math, I can't help, sorry". he didn't organized any help from other sources either (tutoring, after classes homework club etc). So the child eventually failed math. same with English: "I dunno, I'm sorry you have to it yourself.."

When I pointed out to one such parent that their child is falling behind in early elementary grade, their response was "she is just not interested in this". Whewn I pointed out the child needs and education to get ahead in life they just shrugged "what will be will be..".
No concern, no worry, no parent involvement.

The same applies to uneducated hearing parents to whom education is not important. They do nothing to help their children, deaf or hearing, to succed in school. No matter how well they will sign, it won't help their kids to achieve good literary skills.



Fuzzy

most of the children who got referred to us were from oral-only programs. No language access at home and no language access at school makes for a double whammy on their language development, huh? If their parents werent involved, most likely their parents dont know signs but at least the kids will have access to something at the school if they had been placed in a signing program.

 

[jillio]

Exactly!! Thank you Shel90

I second that!

 

[jillio]

most of the children who got referred to us were from oral-only programs. No language access at home and no language access at school makes for a double whammy on their language development, huh? If their parents werent involved, most likely their parents dont know signs but at least the kids will have access to something at the school if they had been placed in a signing program.

Exactly. It has been supported and replicated numerous times. The highest literacy rates in deaf children, both with CI and without are found in deaf children exposed to both sign and speech on a consistent basis. And parents, while they can project their attitudes toward education onto their children, cannot raise literacy rates by demonstrating educational values. A child cannot become literate through osmosis.....by just absorbing parental attitudes. They must must must have language to develop literacy. Therefore, delayed language=dealyed literacy.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

They must must must have language to develop literacy. Therefore, delayed language=dealyed literacy.

uh-ha... and if the parents doesn't give a flying fart about education, development, there will be no interest in literacy - ASL or not.

Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Cheri, Jillo, Liebling, Angel, and a few of us do not represent the whole deaf community. It would be like looking at some a few people of that community and swearing off a whole community based on a few people's strong opinions.

But sadly, this bunch effectively puts off any hopeful hearing parent of a deaf child. What an irony....

Fuzzy

 

[jillio]

uh-ha... and if the parents doesn't give a flying fart about education, development, there will be no interest in literacy - ASL or not.

Fuzzy

But they still need language first. You are missing the point.
And there are many children who achieve greater educational achievement than that demonstrated by parents or environment. These are the children that are internally motivated, not externally motivated. One of my students (deaf with CI) was told by his father that he didn't need to go to college. His father is a construction worker and told his son that college was completely uneccesary and a waste of time. Desptie his father's negative attitude toward education, this kid had a scholarship coming out of high school and is now a successful college sophomore. He achieved literacy competence and has continued his pursuit of education in spite of his environmental influences. However, had this child not been exposed to language and developed a strong L1 language, he would not have succeeded academically. It is the language that is the most important.

 

[jillio]

But sadly, this bunch effectively puts off any hopeful hearing parent of a deaf child. What an irony....

Fuzzy

Perhaps to you. There are those that disagree with you. And, as you are not a hearing parent with a deaf child, you are completely unqualified to speak their minds for them.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Perhaps to you. There are those that disagree with you.

Uh-ha..

meantime, where are those many hearing parents being happy here?
what? oh, they run away... ooops.


Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

But they still need language first. You are missing the point.
And there are many children who achieve greater educational achievement than that demonstrated by parents or environment. These are the children that are internally motivated, not externally motivated. One of my students (deaf with CI) was told by his father that he didn't need to go to college. His father is a construction worker and told his son that college was completely uneccesary and a waste of time. Desptie his father's negative attitude toward education, this kid had a scholarship coming out of high school and is now a successful college sophomore. He achieved literacy competence and has continued his pursuit of education in spite of his environmental influences. However, had this child not been exposed to language and developed a strong L1 language, he would not have succeeded academically. It is the language that is the most important.

sorry jill but you are trying too hard, so hard it lost credibility.

College, you say? I'd dare say that's welllll past langage development that takes place mainly from 0 to 3 years old.

It's that age that matters, hon.

But they still need language first.

Exactly.


Fuzzy

 

[jillio]

Uh-ha..

meantime, where are those many hearing parents being happy here?
what? oh, they run away... ooops.


Fuzzy

Once again, you are totally unqualified to speak for hearing parents of deaf children.

 

[jillio]

sorry jill but you are trying too hard, so hard it lost credibility.

College, you say? I'd dare say that's welllll past langage development that takes place mainly from 0 to 3 years old.

It's that age that matters, hon.



Exactly.


Fuzzy

Once again, fuzzy, you miss the point. A parent who does not value higher education does not provide an atmosphere that values literacy. Yes, he is a collge student. But he was not encouraged, in his earlier years, to stive for academic success, because education was not a priorty. And without that support, he would not have been able to achieve that success without language. A child who does not have home support for educational achievement can still achieve through intrinsic motivation. A child without language cannot learn to read, no matter how much the parent values education. And what are you talking about, it's the age. Do you think this student suddenly became literate at college age?

And let's try this agian and see if you get it this time........language acquisition occurs on a developmental timetable of approximately birth -3years. Language development continues throughout the lifespan.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I second that!

I third that!

 

[Cloggy]

Noo, not all parents are not like you, just because your case shows how selfishness it is. Teachers in school will give their students " D " / " F " grades, if they don't learn. High schools have their sign language classes. It doesn't mean it is only occassion or once in a while, if the students don't feel like it. They HAVE TO learn. That's what the school give the credits to them for. Without learn, they will NOT earn their credits to pass their grade.

I was right all along that you chose CI. Reason : just to get the easy way out - soo much easier for you. You don't really want to work on it effortlessly. Period.

Are you OK.???

So...
Raising a deaf child is "...want to work on it effortlessly." ... interesting! Is that how you look at yourself. An endless piece of work?