Deaf view on a CI kid... its a bummer..

[shel90]

But they still need language first. You are missing the point.
And there are many children who achieve greater educational achievement than that demonstrated by parents or environment. These are the children that are internally motivated, not externally motivated. One of my students (deaf with CI) was told by his father that he didn't need to go to college. His father is a construction worker and told his son that college was completely uneccesary and a waste of time. Desptie his father's negative attitude toward education, this kid had a scholarship coming out of high school and is now a successful college sophomore. He achieved literacy competence and has continued his pursuit of education in spite of his environmental influences. However, had this child not been exposed to language and developed a strong L1 language, he would not have succeeded academically. It is the language that is the most important.

My father said the exactly same thing to my brother and I. Look at where we are!

Fuzzy...my brother couldnt succeed in an oral-only environment and at home there was no signs. However, my mom and my school took action early and referred him to a signing program where he blossomed academically. Ifmy mom had been stubborn and wanted him to be continued to be mainstreamed despite his struggles accessing to spoken language, for sure he would have become so severely delayed that remedial work wouldnt have helped. That is what I see on a continual basis at my work and it pisses me off!

 

[jillio]

Your opinion about what is disagreement and what's disrespectful differs from mine...

Fuzzy

Obviously, your opinion on what is disrespectful is different from the majority of the posters onthis board. You might want to think aobut that for awhile.

 

[jillio]

OR, perhaps someone else is stubborn, and don't want to admit any wrongdoing... and that's why attacks me.

Fuzzy

Its always everyone else, isn't it? Let's look at this.....the one common variable is fuzzy....hmmmmmm. Perhaps it isn't everyone else!

 

[jillio]

Are you OK.???

So...
Raising a deaf child is "...want to work on it effortlessly." ... interesting! Is that how you look at yourself. An endless piece of work?

Do you see yourself as finished? Have you reached that magical self actualization?

 

[jillio]

That's because there is few of you with about the same comprehency of written English. No matter what I say, it's misunderstood and also because
I disagree, it's immediately declared "disrespectful". no matter if I am right.. (especially when I am right).


Fuzzy

Uhhhhh....I don't think that "comprehency" is a word. Wasn't it you who said "Those without sin.......?" in an earlier post?

 

[jillio]

My father said the exactly same thing to my brother and I. Look at where we are!

Fuzzy...my brother couldnt succeed in an oral-only environment and at home there was no signs. However, my mom and my school took action early and referred him to a signing program where he blossomed academically. Ifmy mom had been stubborn and wanted him to be continued to be mainstreamed despite his struggles accessing to spoken language, for sure he would have become so severely delayed that remedial work wouldnt have helped. That is what I see on a continual basis at my work and it pisses me off!

Thank you shel. I see someone is capable of comprehending the issue.

 

[Cloggy]

Do you see yourself as finished? Have you reached that magical self actualization?

Oh, Jillio.. such sharp perception..
No, still working.

Maria said...

I was right all along that you chose CI. Reason : just to get the easy way out - soo much easier for you. You don't really want to work on it effortlessly. Period.

So, by not choosing CI, I would have "wanted to work on it effortlessly. "
There you go... Maria is describing you!!!

YOu had to work effortleely on your son..

NOw, I don't agree with that statement... but if you feel it's correct... be my guest... Actually, no, don't.. Go ahead I mean..

 

[jillio]

Oh, Jillio.. such sharp perception..
No, still working.

Maria said...

So, by not choosing CI, I would have "wanted to work on it effortlessly. "
There you go... Maria is describing you!!!

YOu had to work effortleely on your son..

NOw, I don't agree with that statement... but if you feel it's correct... be my guest... Actually, no, don't.. Go ahead I mean..

You are the one that criticized maria for her statement,a nd in doing so implied that it was incorrect to view oneself as a work in prgress.

Could you please explain what "effortleely" is?

The reference was to your question, "Is that how yo see yourself? An endless peice of work?" Once ould hope we would all realize that improvement requires that we consistently and continually work on that improvement. Hence my question.....if it is wrong to view oneself as an endless peice of work, are you implying that you, yourself have reached self actualization and are incapable of omprovement? If not, then your criticism of maria is invalid, and offered only for the sake of attempting to discredit another.

 

[Cloggy]

You are the one that criticized maria for her statement,a nd in doing so implied that it was incorrect to view oneself as a work in prgress.

Could you please explain what "effortleely" is?

No idea... I'm sure you will explain it to me...
Just throwing in words that make no sense.... you of all people should recognize that....

 

[Angel]

I think that it is a self-esteem issue for some hearing parents.

My brother-in-law became 100% deaf as a young adult. His dad absolutely refuses to learn ANY sign. His mother took a class or two, but didn't really learn it very well.

My brother-in-law lost his hearing because of a genetic problem that required brain surgery. So, for his dad and mom, they seem to be unwilling to face the fact that their genetics caused their son (who they love of course) to have such "trouble". It's psychological -- like "denial." So, if they force him to lipread, they feel better about themselves. In their mind they see lipreading as "Oh, see, he is 'coping well' with being deaf... we don't feel as bad about ourselves and our genes."

My wife and I looked at it the opposite way, but it was easier for us, because we did not feel like we "did anything to cause his deafness." For us, it seemed very natural that we needed to learn ASL to be able to communicate better with my sister and brother-in-law. It is hard for hearies to think of deafness not as a loss -- especially before we start to learn about deaf culture.

I actually have almost the opposite problem as many people in this thread. As an ASL learner, I get sad and disappointed when Deaf people put me down for not being as good at signing as they are, or telling me that I'm "disrespecting their culture" and "not appreciating ASL" because I'm not as good as they are, or because I sometimes sign English-like.

I understand that it's natural for a culture to develop around a language (just like American hearies have a culture that's built around English), but some deaf people need to "get a grip" (English idiom: "need to calm down and look at how they are behaving"). Some deafies act like they own ASL personally. I don't do that with English. If a Spanish person comes up to me with broken English and asks me a question, I either switch to my broken Spanish, or I try to help them in English. I don't become militant about how bad their English is, or how they're disrespecting my English culture. If they ask for help learning some English, I naturally want to help them, in the hope that they'll teach me some Spanish.

I don't really understand the instinct some people have (deaf and hearing) to define themselves with only their particular language -- to the point that they take pride in NOT knowing another language. Why would anybody take pride in being intentionally ignorant? Why wouldn't you instead try to be very skilled in at least one language, and then have a little bit of skill in other languages?

For non-vocal deafies, I suppose it's a little frightening to try to learn to voice, but why not try a just a little? Not because someone is oppressing you, but instead because it is better to have some command of more than one skill (for you personally). That's how I feel with ASL, Spanish, French, etc. I will never be as good as a native signer or Spanish or French speaker, but I certainly don't take pride that I can only speak English. I just don't understand that way of thinking.

I understand, it the same way with me, Deaf people put me down too for not being as good or faster at ASL as they are but I don't care what they think, I'm just glad my deaf friends are nothing like them.....They understands me very well, I don't need to prove them nothing, if they don't accept me for what I am, then that's their loss....

 

[jillio]

No idea... I'm sure you will explain it to me...
Just throwing in words that make no sense.... you of all people should recognize that....

Just because you are unable to decipher the meaning doesn't mean it doesn't amke sense....only that you are unable to make sense of it. And "efforleely" was your word. I defined denotative and connotative for you. Define "effortleely" for me.

 

[jillio]

This is beginning to get.......index finger to the side of the nose and twist.

 

[Maria]

Oh, Jillio.. such sharp perception..
No, still working.

Maria said...

So, by not choosing CI, I would have "wanted to work on it effortlessly. "
There you go... Maria is describing you!!!

YOu had to work effortleely on your son..

NOw, I don't agree with that statement... but if you feel it's correct... be my guest... Actually, no, don't.. Go ahead I mean..

No, I am describin' YOU !! You are workin' on Lotte's HEAR, not language. Nice try to twist my words. Your view is far from my own view and yourself is NOT deaf to be able to SEE in my view, because YOU are NOT seein' yourself as deaf in me.

 

[Cloggy]

Just because you are unable to decipher the meaning doesn't mean it doesn't amke sense....only that you are unable to make sense of it. And "efforleely" was your word. I defined denotative and connotative for you. Define "effortleely" for me.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

My father said the exactly same thing to my brother and I. Look at where we are!

Fuzzy...my brother couldnt succeed in an oral-only environment and at home there was no signs. However, my mom and my school took action early and referred him to a signing program where he blossomed academically. Ifmy mom had been stubborn and wanted him to be continued to be mainstreamed despite his struggles accessing to spoken language, for sure he would have become so severely delayed that remedial work wouldnt have helped. That is what I see on a continual basis at my work and it pisses me off!

Of course. That makes sense. I am not sure why are you telling me this though... btw the same happened with my brother. I was doing fine in hearing enviro., he didn't so he got sent to the deaf and HoH school.

Fuzzy

ps jills, 2/3 of unneccessary off topic bickering crap is YOURS - do you realise that?
I don't know if I admire or not your energy and dedication for this....

btw thanks for correction - of course it was supposed to be "comprehension". so you are good for something, after all

fuzzy

 

[R2D2]

I think that it is a self-esteem issue for some hearing parents.

My brother-in-law became 100% deaf as a young adult. His dad absolutely refuses to learn ANY sign. His mother took a class or two, but didn't really learn it very well.

My brother-in-law lost his hearing because of a genetic problem that required brain surgery. So, for his dad and mom, they seem to be unwilling to face the fact that their genetics caused their son (who they love of course) to have such "trouble". It's psychological -- like "denial." So, if they force him to lipread, they feel better about themselves. In their mind they see lipreading as "Oh, see, he is 'coping well' with being deaf... we don't feel as bad about ourselves and our genes."

My wife and I looked at it the opposite way, but it was easier for us, because we did not feel like we "did anything to cause his deafness." For us, it seemed very natural that we needed to learn ASL to be able to communicate better with my sister and brother-in-law. It is hard for hearies to think of deafness not as a loss -- especially before we start to learn about deaf culture.

I actually have almost the opposite problem as many people in this thread. As an ASL learner, I get sad and disappointed when Deaf people put me down for not being as good at signing as they are, or telling me that I'm "disrespecting their culture" and "not appreciating ASL" because I'm not as good as they are, or because I sometimes sign English-like.

I understand that it's natural for a culture to develop around a language (just like American hearies have a culture that's built around English), but some deaf people need to "get a grip" (English idiom: "need to calm down and look at how they are behaving"). Some deafies act like they own ASL personally. I don't do that with English. If a Spanish person comes up to me with broken English and asks me a question, I either switch to my broken Spanish, or I try to help them in English. I don't become militant about how bad their English is, or how they're disrespecting my English culture. If they ask for help learning some English, I naturally want to help them, in the hope that they'll teach me some Spanish.

I don't really understand the instinct some people have (deaf and hearing) to define themselves with only their particular language -- to the point that they take pride in NOT knowing another language. Why would anybody take pride in being intentionally ignorant? Why wouldn't you instead try to be very skilled in at least one language, and then have a little bit of skill in other languages?

For non-vocal deafies, I suppose it's a little frightening to try to learn to voice, but why not try a just a little? Not because someone is oppressing you, but instead because it is better to have some command of more than one skill (for you personally). That's how I feel with ASL, Spanish, French, etc. I will never be as good as a native signer or Spanish or French speaker, but I certainly don't take pride that I can only speak English. I just don't understand that way of thinking.

Very good and thoughtful post! It's worth wading through the bickering to read good contributions like yours.

 

[shel90]

I think that it is a self-esteem issue for some hearing parents.

My brother-in-law became 100% deaf as a young adult. His dad absolutely refuses to learn ANY sign. His mother took a class or two, but didn't really learn it very well.

My brother-in-law lost his hearing because of a genetic problem that required brain surgery. So, for his dad and mom, they seem to be unwilling to face the fact that their genetics caused their son (who they love of course) to have such "trouble". It's psychological -- like "denial." So, if they force him to lipread, they feel better about themselves. In their mind they see lipreading as "Oh, see, he is 'coping well' with being deaf... we don't feel as bad about ourselves and our genes."

My wife and I looked at it the opposite way, but it was easier for us, because we did not feel like we "did anything to cause his deafness." For us, it seemed very natural that we needed to learn ASL to be able to communicate better with my sister and brother-in-law. It is hard for hearies to think of deafness not as a loss -- especially before we start to learn about deaf culture.

I actually have almost the opposite problem as many people in this thread. As an ASL learner, I get sad and disappointed when Deaf people put me down for not being as good at signing as they are, or telling me that I'm "disrespecting their culture" and "not appreciating ASL" because I'm not as good as they are, or because I sometimes sign English-like.

I understand that it's natural for a culture to develop around a language (just like American hearies have a culture that's built around English), but some deaf people need to "get a grip" (English idiom: "need to calm down and look at how they are behaving"). Some deafies act like they own ASL personally. I don't do that with English. If a Spanish person comes up to me with broken English and asks me a question, I either switch to my broken Spanish, or I try to help them in English. I don't become militant about how bad their English is, or how they're disrespecting my English culture. If they ask for help learning some English, I naturally want to help them, in the hope that they'll teach me some Spanish.

I don't really understand the instinct some people have (deaf and hearing) to define themselves with only their particular language -- to the point that they take pride in NOT knowing another language. Why would anybody take pride in being intentionally ignorant? Why wouldn't you instead try to be very skilled in at least one language, and then have a little bit of skill in other languages?

For non-vocal deafies, I suppose it's a little frightening to try to learn to voice, but why not try a just a little? Not because someone is oppressing you, but instead because it is better to have some command of more than one skill (for you personally). That's how I feel with ASL, Spanish, French, etc. I will never be as good as a native signer or Spanish or French speaker, but I certainly don't take pride that I can only speak English. I just don't understand that way of thinking.

About Deafies putting u down for not being "ASL" enough, that happened to me too when I first went to Gallaudet so I just ingored them and found the ones that are more like me....who learned ASL later. Those kind of deaf people are really the minority of the Deaf community or it is here in MD. If anyone looks down on u cuz of your signing, they are the ones who have issues not the whole Deaf community. We are all different and come from different backgrounds.

About "owning ASL"...I havent seen that attitude here on AD cuz many of us have shown our appreciation for any hearing people who are interested in learning ASL. However, out there I have met a few deaf people like that and I found out that they had bad experiences of being taken advantaged by hearing people who had no deaf connections so they are very suspicous of any hearing people with no deaf relatives learning ASL. Yes, they need to deal with those issues and learn to accept that there are many people who want to learn ASL.

I honestly dont know why those deaf people that I just described are like that and continue to be like that. It drives me nuts cuz all they do is make the rest of us look bad. :roll:

 

[neecy]

About Deafies putting u down for not being "ASL" enough, that happened to me too when I first went to Gallaudet so I just ingored them and found the ones that are more like me....who learned ASL later. Those kind of deaf people are really the minority of the Deaf community or it is here in MD. If anyone looks down on u cuz of your signing, they are the ones who have issues not the whole Deaf community. We are all different and come from different backgrounds.

I just wanted to add - I was asked to leave a party at Gallaudet (during Rockfest) along with my group of friends from NTID, when we were conversing using signed English instead of ASL. Was quite an unpleasant experience as it was my very first (and last) visit there.

 

[Tousi]

This is beginning to get.......index finger to the side of the nose and twist.

Not only boring but gaining speed down the chasm of pettiness. Lol...

 

[Tousi]

I just wanted to add - I was asked to leave a party at Gallaudet (during Rockfest) along with my group of friends from NTID, when we were conversing using signed English instead of ASL. Was quite an unpleasant experience as it was my very first (and last) visit there.

Oh, man, that was rotten of them!!