Deaf Nation new comer

[Cloggy]

I couldn't agree more. That's why the discussions of God and Jesus in these threads seems very bizarre to me.

Because some people feel different about it, and use that as arguments.

 

[sr171soars]

And in any case I don't think a Christian Science standpoint is helpful for Jewish deaf people, or Buddhists, etc.

Er...*scratching my head*...A Christian Science standpoint?!? I was just turning gnulinuxman's argument on its head. I refer to "God" generally speaking not from any particular viewpoint.

 

[Cloggy]

:topic:

My goodness, we're getting more and more off-topic.

Let's stop this!

:topic:

 

[sr171soars]

:topic:

My goodness, we're getting more and more off-topic.

Let's stop this!

:topic:

No problem. Sorry...

 

[deafdyke]

Just cant hear and speak. What is wrong with sign language in communication?

There's nothing wrong with Sign.....it's just that parents want their kids to speak in ADDITION to Sign. I do think some oral programs and some hearing parents are really almost wanting Designer superfically perfect high acheiver children. BUT, Liliysdad wants his daughter to have a full toolbox of tools! Just b/c SOME parents who seek an oral education, don't accept their kids, and are still in denial and want "healthy normal" kids, it doesn't mean ALL parents are like that.

 

[gnulinuxman]

Religion and medical condition are not related.....

I agree with you on that. It puzzles me why people bring God into their reason for using the cochlear implant--humans made the CI.

 

[Rose Immortal]

Religion and medical condition are not related.....

I do see a connection between the spirit and the body, and I DO think that God can heal. But oftentimes I think He likes to let us use our own ingenuity (i.e. science) to learn how things work and fix them ourselves. Or in other cases, to learn to work with things that one cannot or does not wish to fix.

 

[sr171soars]

Thank you RI. That is what I was getting at....somehow that got waylaid or misunderstood and I didn't start the idea in the first place!!!

 

[Lillys dad]

Kalista, you are the perfect example of someone reading a post and selectivly taking what you want from it to use to your own benifit.
If you read ANY of my threads, you would clearly see that I have NO PROBLEM with my daughter being deaf. If I did have a problrm with her deafness, do you actually think that I would be on this websites addressing issues and getting info about the deaf community/culture? Do you actually think I would go out of my way to introduce her into the deaf culture? If I didnt want her in the deaf culture, would I even waste my time discussing these issues?
Why cany you accpte the fact that me and several other parents do want our children and us to be involved in the deaf culture? Is it the fact that we decided to get our children implanted (obviously). Whats your deal? Because my daughter has a ci, no matter what I do, you cannot be satisfied. WOW! You must have some serious issues.

During my time on this site, I have met some very caring individuals. That see and understand what me and several other "hearie" parent are doing with our children to ensure that they grow up with a firm understanding of the hearing world as well as the deaf world. What is so wrong with that.
My guess is that you are one of those people that are so set in your ways and so closed mided that no one can get you to see that the world is full of opinions that differ from your and yet still be acctepable. To be honest, you bore the hell out of me.

 

[Lillys dad]

Someone from majority hearing culture doesn't like the way Deaf Culture people looks at him, so he posts here. Everyone joins in and proceeds to do the same thing to Deaf Culture folks that they did to him. Nice way to solve the problem. Pot meet kettle.

Sorry, not even close. Nice try though. I had never even heard of the deaf nation until I joined this forum. The actual intent of this entire thread is not to bitch and moan about the way some narrow minded people looked at me. It is actually yet another attempt to shed some light on the issue on the fact that people are sooo quick to pass judgement on my family because she has a ci.

As far as the pot calling the kettle black. That not correct either. That expression implies my involvment and experiences with the deaf community are exactly like your involvment and experiences in the hearing community. Not even close! Your are forgetting one very important fact. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
Deaf people cannot choose to be deaf correct? Therefore, all deaf people are forced to deal with deaf issues whether or not they accept the deaf community.
I am in the hearing world and can choose whether or not to deal with deaf issues. I can go my entire life and not even think about deaf issues. It would also be very easy for me to raise my daughter with no concept of deaf issues and deaf culture issues. I choose to be involved in deaf issues/culture for the benifit of my daughter.
I feel it is important for her to have a good understanding of who and what she is. Besides, how can you ever know who and what you are if you are not aware or comfortable with yourself. See, I am one of the hearie parents that goes against the preconvieved notion of the deaf community. I do not deny my daughter the opportuniy to learn about the deaf world, I actually encourage her to get involved in it. You are just like kalista, dont take the time to figure out what you just read. You just read away and selectively remember what you want.
So no, you may be a kettle, but I'm not the pot, and I'm not black.
Besides, you have no idea of how I interact with the deaf culture or deaf paople on an individual basis do you? You are merely jumping to conclusions because I am a "hearie".

 

[deafdyke]

Good rants......It takes the Deaf culture a while to come to terms with stuff like this. Matter of fact there are probaly Deafies who are anti hearing aid!
Give people here time.....in ten or twenty years, I bet this whole debate will be looked as quaintly as people now look at lefthanders being teh evil!

 

[Cloggy]

Lillys Dad,

Excellent posts. Well-told.

I agree with you 100%, especially because I am in the same situation.
Well, you are getting your daughter even more involved in Deaf culture, since USA has far more opportunities than Norway.

I admire your persiverence. Other people would allready have given up after the experience that you and yor family had.

Good to see some common sense here instead of the closeminded cries from people like kalista and dkf747 (would that be referring to a supersized plane?))

Cloggy

 

[Interpretrator]

Er...*scratching my head*...A Christian Science standpoint?!? I was just turning gnulinuxman's argument on its head. I refer to "God" generally speaking not from any particular viewpoint.

Christian Scientists believe that prayer and God will heal the body of all ills, which is similar to the example you gave. That's why I went there. In my roundabout way I was also saying that referring to God and Jesus were way off the topic, but I ended up adding fuel to the fire instead.

 

[gnulinuxman]

I believe they looked down on you because they think you were there to preach Deaf people about CI, because that's what medical doctors consultants and surgeons advise and being pushy to Deaf people to get CI, I've seen them going on and on about how it would improve the quality of one's life. I feel it was inappropriate for them to go down my throat about it.

Cheri's 100% right here. That's what a lot of hearing people and implanted people do--they do preach about how good they think it is to hear. Do Deaf people really want to go through that again? I'm sure they've seen it enough... Deaf cultural events aren't the place to bring up CI's, and if you do, you may end up being unwanted.

I'm not going to lie to you, but to be quite honest there are some Deaf people who believes in "Deaf power", They are the people who just like to be in their little world, doesn't approve oral, mainstream, total communication, nor CI.

True again, but some are just perceived as being that way too. Don't get me wrong--there are some who are really that way.

As said above, I was told (and feel) that it is important to expose my daughter to the deaf culture. When I do, I get looked down upon, and shunned. A parents job is to raise a child in the manner they see best right?

Don't be afraid to socialize with Deaf people. Don't bring up the cochlear implant to people you don't know too well. Just try to be respectful.

So why then should I continue to expose her to a community that shuns her and rejects her based soley on a medical procedure she had that makes it possible for her to hear as a "hearie".Afterall, isnt that what I'm called?

Cochlear implants do NOT give people normal hearing like you and I experience as hearing people. I don't know what it does sound like exactly, since I've never had a CI, but I have been told by my friends that it sounds somewhat metallic and muffled and nowhere near as good as normal hearing.

And yes, we hearing people are also called "hearies".

 

[sr171soars]

Cochlear implants do NOT give people normal hearing like you and I experience as hearing people. I don't know what it does sound like exactly, since I've never had a CI, but I have been told by my friends that it sounds somewhat metallic and muffled and nowhere near as good as normal hearing.
...

You mentioned that "All generalizations aren't true"...well I'm giving you your own medicine back.

I will repeat that you do not know what you are "TALKING ABOUT" period. Just because some say this does not mean that is the case for all. I had to adjust to how it sounded at first but by the next day all speech sounded pretty good. Overall, it took me about 4 days to get the whole thing down pretty well. It doesn't sound metallic, muffled and it is actually better than when I had a HA. Now, I will not say that it is just like normal hearing but I can say it is quite good.

Until you actually experience it yourself, you have no business considering yourself a self proclaimed expert in how a CI sounds. I'm not the only one that has had a good experience with them. There are several others who have and you need to "LISTEN" to them as well besides your "friends" The outcomes run the whole gamet. If you had a balanced statement, I wouldn't have bothered replying...but you persist in using "blinders" in how you see CIs. I'm fine with the fact you don't care for them but providing misleading information helps no one.

 

[gnulinuxman]

I do see a connection between the spirit and the body, and I DO think that God can heal. But oftentimes I think He likes to let us use our own ingenuity (i.e. science) to learn how things work and fix them ourselves. Or in other cases, to learn to work with things that one cannot or does not wish to fix.

Yes, that's the way I see it too.

I just am a bit angered by people saying things are good "because God let [me or others] make it". (This is a very common argument in favor of cochlear implants, and one that Heather Whitestone-McCallum makes very frequently.) That argument is not valid at all to me because God also "let" people invent the gun and nuclear bombs, yet I doubt He wants us killing people. God gave us free will.

 

[dkf747]

Sorry, not even close. Nice try though. I had never even heard of the deaf nation until I joined this forum. The actual intent of this entire thread is not to bitch and moan about the way some narrow minded people looked at me. It is actually yet another attempt to shed some light on the issue on the fact that people are sooo quick to pass judgement on my family because she has a ci.

As far as the pot calling the kettle black. That not correct either. That expression implies my involvment and experiences with the deaf community are exactly like your involvment and experiences in the hearing community. Not even close! Your are forgetting one very important fact. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
Deaf people cannot choose to be deaf correct? Therefore, all deaf people are forced to deal with deaf issues whether or not they accept the deaf community.
I am in the hearing world and can choose whether or not to deal with deaf issues. I can go my entire life and not even think about deaf issues. It would also be very easy for me to raise my daughter with no concept of deaf issues and deaf culture issues. I choose to be involved in deaf issues/culture for the benifit of my daughter.
I feel it is important for her to have a good understanding of who and what she is. Besides, how can you ever know who and what you are if you are not aware or comfortable with yourself. See, I am one of the hearie parents that goes against the preconvieved notion of the deaf community. I do not deny my daughter the opportuniy to learn about the deaf world, I actually encourage her to get involved in it. You are just like kalista, dont take the time to figure out what you just read. You just read away and selectively remember what you want.
So no, you may be a kettle, but I'm not the pot, and I'm not black.
Besides, you have no idea of how I interact with the deaf culture or deaf paople on an individual basis do you? You are merely jumping to conclusions because I am a "hearie".

I read every post. All it is is bash Deaf people. You guys are having fun ganging up on them. You are doing the exact same thing as you claim happened at Deaf Nation. I'm sure it happened as you describe, and I'm not defending their behavior. What you are doing is not helping your kid any. So go ahead and keep bashing them, but don't forget your kid could be one of them some day.

 

[Lillys dad]

Correct, I am aware that the CI does not allow one to hear as a hearing person, I misspoke about that.
As far as not bring up a ci during a conversation with a deaf person, I never got the chance. All someone has to do is look at my daughter and they see it. When they saw it, I got that disgusting look. And by that point, there is no point of even trying to talk to that person.
As far as docs, and so forth, pushing ci dont peoples throat. I'm not a dr. Just because my daughter has a ci, I dont think that everyone should. I support those that have a Ci the same as someone that doesnt want one. Life is about choices, and your choice is exactly that YOURS.
Those that feel they dont want a ci or dont want to have a ci shoved down thier throat (your words)look at my daughter and assume that I'm there to force the issue. They never even gave me a chance to show them otherwise. That is called stereotyping. I hope that you dont (or try not to) stereotype a person based on race correct? If you see a black guy standing on a corner, do you assume he is a drug dealer? Maybe hes waiting for a bus.
If you do not stereotype that situation, why is it ok to stereotype me?
I have learned a very valuable lesson because of my experience at deaf nation and the conversatons on this webpage. I have learned that ignorance is alive and well within the deaf community just like any other community. Because I have not made the same choices that you or your parents have, I am not worthy of respect or even the time of day. Thats fine, If those people want to show thier ignorance, good. It makes it that much easier to figure out who is a decent open mided person and who is a narrow minded idiot. The people that look down on me and my daughter (in my opinion) are no better than the KKK, black panthers, or neo-nazi skin heads. They hate us because we are different than they are. They are afraid of anyone that does not see they world the same as they do. And yes, I have plenty of experience dealing with the afforementioned groups. I have stood on a police line and had to defend the rights of these hate mongers. I have gotten in thier faces and arrested them. I have been shot at by "black sepratists". In high school I used to hang out with a group of skin heads called "circle of equality" This is a group of skinheads that were anti racism. They spent most of thier free time protecting minorites from racist skinheads. In fact for fun and recreation, they had a hobby of stomping nazi skinheads.
And based on my experiences, all of these hate groups are a bunch of pussies. In mass, they are strong and will jump anyone that disagreese with their philosophies. In a one on one setting, they run away crying like a little school girl. I am beginning to form the same opinion of the anti ci deaf sepratists that look down on me and mine because I am doing what I feel is right for my daughter. Not thier daughter, just mine.
I realize that this is a bit harsh, and I apoligize for the roughlanguage but this is the conclusion that I have reached based only on my observations. If ya dont like it.......too bad.

Responses??????

 

[gnulinuxman]

I will repeat that you do not know what you are "TALKING ABOUT" period. Just because some say this does not mean that is the case for all. I had to adjust to how it sounded at first but by the next day all speech sounded pretty good. Overall, it took me about 4 days to get the whole thing down pretty well. It doesn't sound metallic, muffled and it is actually better than when I had a HA. Now, I will not say that it is just like normal hearing but I can say it is quite good.

Which was exactly my point. You actually just rehashed my point exactly. I do not know what a cochlear implant sounds like, and I did make it clear in the post you quoted that my friends who have them told me what it was like, and I don't know what it sounds like for sure. And I also said that everybody I've talked to says it's not like normal hearing. Before "disagreeing" with me again, please check to see if I'm really disagreeing with you or if you only think I am disagreeing with you.

Until you actually experience it yourself, you have no business considering yourself a self proclaimed expert in how a CI sounds. I'm not the only one that has had a good experience with them. There are several others who have and you need to "LISTEN" to them as well besides your "friends" The outcomes run the whole gamet. If you had a balanced statement, I wouldn't have bothered replying...but you persist in using "blinders" in how you see CIs. I'm fine with the fact you don't care for them but providing misleading information helps no one.

1. I never said I was an expert on the cochlear implant.
2. I actually am happy for those who have success with them, even those same friends. Once again, people are going to ignore this point, though, even though people don't understand :roll: I have actually said this multiple times in alldeaf.
3. Do I have to make it clear in every single post that I am neutral toward adults who use them and are respectful or be 100% for CI's to not get complaints about my opinions from you guys? I only post what I do because I see others being all-positive and praising their precious CI's and attacking anyone who dares say anything they don't agree with...

 

[gnulinuxman]

I read every post. All it is is bash Deaf people. You guys are having fun ganging up on them. You are doing the exact same thing as you claim happened at Deaf Nation. I'm sure it happened as you describe, and I'm not defending their behavior. What you are doing is not helping your kid any. So go ahead and keep bashing them, but don't forget your kid could be one of them some day.

Right on!!!