Deaf Nation new comer

[Rose Immortal]

Sort of like how I took regualr ski school lessons for years and years,and was still an advanced beginner. Then I took adaptive ski lessons and REALLY took off!

Got to lighten this thread up for JUST a sec...

Ten Marines couldn't drag me out onto a ski slope. You've gut GUTS!

OK...back to your regularly-scheduled flame-wars.

 

[Lillys dad]

Angel star, first off, I want to thank you for the encouragement. As previously stated, I too have dealt with the same type of person that looks at me with disgust in the same fashion.
I want my daughter to look at the narrow minded asl only militants the same way she would look at any other closed minded person, with sadness. These people go hand in hand with the closed minded person that refuses to let a child wear a hearing aid, or refuse to let a child learn sign ASL. Teaching a child to pass judgement on a person based soley on how they chose to communicate is the same as teaching them to pass judgement on someone based on skin color, income, what kind of car they drive or any other thing besides their character and actions. If my daughter grows up to be this closed minded, I failed as a parent. A child learns from mom and dad, and that is a double edged sword in terms when relating to the health of a society.

I do not agree with not taking Lilly to deaf functions. She is deaf. I feel very strongly that you must embrace who and what you are, regardless of what defines you. If I do not expose her to the deaf culture, she will never truly understand it. When she gets old enough, I want her to make that choice for herself. I can only expose her to it and let her decide. Life is about a series of choices. The more you are informed, the better choices you are capable of making to effect the course of your life. This is one the reasons that I almost feel sad for some of the people that look at me in disgust when they see my daughter has a CI. They dont know me or my family but they feel justified in passing judgement on us.

As far as the response about being in St.Louis may cause some to pass judgement on us because there are so many oral schools here. In my opinion, thats not good enough. They are still forming an opinion on us without knowing anything about us. Here is an example of how I pass judgement on people. Being a police officer, I have to form opinions of people all the time (sometimes split second decisions where life/safety can be compromised). When initiating contact with someone, I do so in a guarded manner. Unless you know ALOT about defensive tactics and police work, you will never notice the defensive stances, body positioning, and body language. I do this on pourpose so if you become a threat, I am ready. When talking to a person, (I was raised this way) I always give someone enough respect to do 1 of 2 things,1. they can continue to earn more and more respect by treating me with equal respect. Or 2. they can act like an idiot and lose any respect they have earned. If you act like an adult, you get treated like an adult. If you avt like a fool, you get treated accordingly.
When those people look at me with disgust, in my mind they are showing that they are merely fools.
Gotta go to work. BYE

 

[Cloggy]

Angel star, first off, I want to thank you for the encouragement. As previously stated, I too have dealt with the same type of person that looks at me with disgust in the same fashion.
I want my daughter to look at the narrow minded asl only militants the same way she would look at any other closed minded person, with sadness. These people go hand in hand with the closed minded person that refuses to let a child wear a hearing aid, or refuse to let a child learn sign ASL. Teaching a child to pass judgement on a person based soley on how they chose to communicate is the same as teaching them to pass judgement on someone based on skin color, income, what kind of car they drive or any other thing besides their character and actions. If my daughter grows up to be this closed minded, I failed as a parent. A child learns from mom and dad, and that is a double edged sword in terms when relating to the health of a society.

I do not agree with not taking Lilly to deaf functions. She is deaf. I feel very strongly that you must embrace who and what you are, regardless of what defines you. If I do not expose her to the deaf culture, she will never truly understand it. When she gets old enough, I want her to make that choice for herself. I can only expose her to it and let her decide. Life is about a series of choices. The more you are informed, the better choices you are capable of making to effect the course of your life. This is one the reasons that I almost feel sad for some of the people that look at me in disgust when they see my daughter has a CI. They dont know me or my family but they feel justified in passing judgement on us.

As far as the response about being in St.Louis may cause some to pass judgement on us because there are so many oral schools here. In my opinion, thats not good enough. They are still forming an opinion on us without knowing anything about us. Here is an example of how I pass judgement on people. Being a police officer, I have to form opinions of people all the time (sometimes split second decisions where life/safety can be compromised). When initiating contact with someone, I do so in a guarded manner. Unless you know ALOT about defensive tactics and police work, you will never notice the defensive stances, body positioning, and body language. I do this on pourpose so if you become a threat, I am ready. When talking to a person, (I was raised this way) I always give someone enough respect to do 1 of 2 things,1. they can continue to earn more and more respect by treating me with equal respect. Or 2. they can act like an idiot and lose any respect they have earned. If you act like an adult, you get treated like an adult. If you avt like a fool, you get treated accordingly.
When those people look at me with disgust, in my mind they are showing that they are merely fools.
Gotta go to work. BYE

You're a wise man.
I wish you all the luck with your daughter and may she soften the tension that exists between the two cultures.
Pehaps a way to look at it is that they are refusing you for what you did to your child. Since the child cannot help it, they should NOT refuse her, and allow her in their community.
If this doesn't happen, there are other reasons.....

I hope ou will find your space there.

By the way, you did make contact there with other people, that wore CI. Did you manage to follow up on that? I feel that these people might be the bridge for you to come in good contact...

They migth be fools, but they can change

Cloggy

 

[deafdyke]

When she gets old enough, I want her to make that choice for herself. I can only expose her to it and let her decide.

You're an AWESOME, AWESOME parent!!!! I think you and your family should join the American Society for Deaf Children....it's a bit more Sign friendly then AG Bell, and you may find more hearing parents who've decided to give their kids both speech and Sign. AG Bell does have some members who are speech-Sign bilingal, but it does tend to be heavy with speech monolingal members.
I still think that you were treated the way you were b/c of the presense of St. L being such an oral town. Oral programs tend to attract a certain type of parent like flies. There are WONDERFUL parents who realize that their kids should be bilingal, and it's their job to expose their kids to both worlds....However, many attracted to oral program parents tend to almost look down on Sign. You have to realize that attitudes like those were born of DECADES of oppression. For years and years many oral folks were taught to look down on Sign......many Signers can get a little self-defensive when dealing with oralists....Some of the oral families out there......I mean I'm positive that you've probaly encountered them yourself,seeing as you're at an oral school......the type of parent who only wants their kids to speak or to be healthy and normal (whatever that means)

 

[Lillys dad]

Thank you!
On the note of oral schools, Lilly goes to CID for three hours a day mon-fri. They have an open meeting twice a month called "parents support group". While I dont agree with the name, it is an awesome group. I attend these meetings whenever possible. There are usually the same parents at each meeting, with the exception of the occasional parent that could get the time off of work (the meetings are during normal business hours during the week).
It is usually me, another hearing parent, and two deaf parents (one lip reads and the other uses an interpiter (sp)). We always end up having the best conversations about so many different things.
Anyway, During the meeting this past wednesday, I was asked about my experience at deaf nation. The only parent that was shocked to hear about how I was treated was the other hearing parent. The two deaf parents got pissed off to say the least. The two people that usually run the meeting and provide the topic for discussion is the family center admin. and a school counsler. The counsler is deaf with a ci, the admin is hearing. They basicly told me what I already knew, it is very hard to get accurate info into the mainstream deaf culture.
Here are some things that many here probably do not know. Are you aware that CID (and most oral schools for that matter) do not force anyone into communicating in a manner that they do not feel comfortable? Contrary to popular belief, if a child/family chooses for a child to lipread instead of ha or ci, the school completely supports that decision.
Here is another one, the school has no problem with a child using sign. Actually they suggest parents to teach a child some basic asl in case a ha or ci fails (refer to above post about a ci failure). If a child has a ci and goes swimming, how do you think a parent will tell the child that it is time to get out of the pool if they dont have the CI on.
Along the lines of ASL, as I have said many times, I will earn it in the future. I realized today while watching my daughters class through a two way mirror observation room that I am already learning it! And guess who I am learning it from? A group of 2 year olds that all have CI and/or ha!
A little girl i( I will refer to her as J)in the class lives near us, our families have become friends and we get the girls together every weekend and sometimes during the week to play. I was watching the class when J tapped my daughter on the shoulder and signed for her to sit down. When she did that, I knew what she was saying! I know its not much, but hey, remember, I observed this in a preschool class at an oral school.
Back to the parent meetings, The topic of the meeting was for parents to get together and come up with ideas for the meetings next year. So if an oral school is so strict with speaking and signing in many peoples minds, then why are they allowing 2 year olds to sign and letting the parents brainstorm for ideas about ANYTHING that relates to deaf issues?
Sorry again for the rambling.

 

[Cloggy]

Thank you!
On the note of oral schools, Lilly goes to CID for three hours a day mon-fri. They have an open meeting twice a month called "parents support group". While I dont agree with the name, it is an awesome group. I attend these meetings whenever possible. There are usually the same parents at each meeting, with the exception of the occasional parent that could get the time off of work (the meetings are during normal business hours during the week).
It is usually me, another hearing parent, and two deaf parents (one lip reads and the other uses an interpiter (sp)). We always end up having the best conversations about so many different things.
Anyway, During the meeting this past wednesday, I was asked about my experience at deaf nation. The only parent that was shocked to hear about how I was treated was the other hearing parent. The two deaf parents got pissed off to say the least. The two people that usually run the meeting and provide the topic for discussion is the family center admin. and a school counsler. The counsler is deaf with a ci, the admin is hearing. They basicly told me what I already knew, it is very hard to get accurate info into the mainstream deaf culture.
Here are some things that many here probably do not know. Are you aware that CID (and most oral schools for that matter) do not force anyone into communicating in a manner that they do not feel comfortable? Contrary to popular belief, if a child/family chooses for a child to lipread instead of ha or ci, the school completely supports that decision.
Here is another one, the school has no problem with a child using sign. Actually they suggest parents to teach a child some basic asl in case a ha or ci fails (refer to above post about a ci failure). If a child has a ci and goes swimming, how do you think a parent will tell the child that it is time to get out of the pool if they dont have the CI on.
Along the lines of ASL, as I have said many times, I will earn it in the future. I realized today while watching my daughters class through a two way mirror observation room that I am already learning it! And guess who I am learning it from? A group of 2 year olds that all have CI and/or ha!
A little girl i( I will refer to her as J)in the class lives near us, our families have become friends and we get the girls together every weekend and sometimes during the week to play. I was watching the class when J tapped my daughter on the shoulder and signed for her to sit down. When she did that, I knew what she was saying! I know its not much, but hey, remember, I observed this in a preschool class at an oral school.
Back to the parent meetings, The topic of the meeting was for parents to get together and come up with ideas for the meetings next year. So if an oral school is so strict with speaking and signing in many peoples minds, then why are they allowing 2 year olds to sign and letting the parents brainstorm for ideas about ANYTHING that relates to deaf issues?
Sorry again for the rambling.

Nothing to be sorry about. Enjoyed reading it.

It reminded me of when we were learning sign. For our children, 7 and 5 at the time we actually hired a HOH girl (about 18 years old) who we payed to spent 1-2 hours every saturday to teach them sign. This by playing games with them, walking into town etc.
I remember we wrote words on pieces of paper and putting them in a bowl.
Then someone had to choose a piece, and sign the word.
I agree with you it's great to see those little ones sign.
Have a look here where my wife is signing woth my daughter on the kitchen floor....

 

[deafdyke]

Are you aware that CID (and most oral schools for that matter) do not force anyone into communicating in a manner that they do not feel comfortable? Contrary to popular belief, if a child/family chooses for a child to lipread instead of ha or ci, the school completely supports that decision.
Here is another one, the school has no problem with a child using sign. Actually they suggest parents to teach a child some basic asl in case a ha or ci fails

The mentality is changing, slowly but surely. I think by now many of the professionals have realized that most oral-first kids, DO eventually learn Sign.
I think that's great!

 

[Kalista]

I took my wife and daughter to Deaf Nation today. I wanted to go so we could start to get involved in the deaf culture. We have very little exposure other than Central Institute for the deaf and the families we have met there.

I have never felt so unwanted in my life. Along those lines, I have never seen so many people look at a child with such disgust, just because she has a C.I.
Then they look at my wife and I like we chopped off her arms.

Well, I would be very upset to seeing your daughter with cochlear implant. She did not ask for it. She born Deaf, God makes her Deaf. You destory her idenfity as Deaf. You should be thankful God that she has ten fingers and toes. Beautiful eyes, mouth, nose, face and hair...

I do not blame the Deaf Community are very angry with hearing parents who make the decision for their Deaf babies or children to get CI.

It sounds like that you do not accept your daughter for who she is. Sorry for offense you but it makes me very furious. Deaf is not medical issue. Just cant hear and speak. What is wrong with sign language in communication?

You do not accept her because she is Deaf. You want her to be like you and your wife as hearing. Cochlear Implants are full of bull-shit. It does not cure to be hearing and speaking perfect.

DEAF person with strong ASL skills and love being in the Deaf culture… we need to take a good look at ourselves since ADA, IDEA, technologies, medicine, and cochlear implants are about 20 years ahead of the cultural aspect of the Deaf community… perhaps it is time for us to be more global minded and find bridges to work with diversity of Deaf people … than just being solo on one small island… we can no longer deny .. .. we are considered quite “Old School” while the world is progressing along without us .. hmmm .. something to think about … it is sad but REALITY does bite !!???

 

[gnulinuxman]

This is the kind of stuff that makes me wonder if the interest in sign language, which I have for not a family reason like yours but simply a love for language, is one I should not fulfill...or at least be VERY careful with who I learn from.

I'm already shy, and even shier when I speak foreign languages (even the ones I know well).

I don't want to be afraid of being rejected for having an interest that I am somehow not entitled to have as a hearing person (in the eyes of some), or rejected because I've made mistakes. I don't want to be mocked, laughed at, or put down.

Mind you, I know that the prejudicial types do not make up the entire dhh community. But it does make me afraid of getting a bad teacher or being with students who don't want me in their class.

If this helps you, I want you to know that as a hearing person, you're probably not going to get rejected if you're respectful of deaf people. Sure, there will be some who hate you, but that happens in just any group, not just deaf people.

You'll be fine as long as you respect the deaf people. I learned ASL as a third language and now half of my friends (actually, probably a little more than half by now) are deaf. Feel free to PM me if you want more info.

 

[gnulinuxman]

A PURE EXAMPLE OF AUDISM/DUT!!!

Yeah, agreed. People who avoid Deaf events probably have done something wrong. I've found Deaf Culture to be quite accepting of hearies as long as we're respectful, and I can understand why praising oral methods would be viewed as disrepectful at a Deaf event. Sometimes I think people are clueless when it comes to Deaf Culture. I don't claim to know everything; I'm just posting my experience and what my Deaf friends have told me.

My experiences in Deaf Culture have been extremely positive.

 

[gnulinuxman]

Well, I would be very upset to seeing your daughter with cochlear implant. She did not ask for it. She born Deaf, God makes her Deaf. You destory her idenfity as Deaf. You should be thankful God that she has ten fingers and toes. Beautiful eyes, mouth, nose, face and hair...

Agreed.

I do not blame the Deaf Community are very angry with hearing parents who make the decision for their Deaf babies or children to get CI.

I just don't understand why these hearing parents are so shocked about the hostility. I don't blame the Deaf Community one bit for that either.

It sounds like that you do not accept your daughter for who she is. Sorry for offense you but it makes me very furious. Deaf is not medical issue. Just cant hear and speak. What is wrong with sign language in communication?

Nothing. There's nothing wrong with written communication either. You don't need hearing or jaw-flapping to read and write either.

You do not accept her because she is Deaf. You want her to be like you and your wife as hearing. Cochlear Implants are full of bull-shit. It does not cure to be hearing and speaking perfect.

This is why I have a problem with the cochlear implant being compared to glasses--glasses work; the CI doesn't.

 

[Cloggy]

Well, I would be very upset to seeing your daughter with cochlear implant. She did not ask for it. She born Deaf, God makes her Deaf. You destory her idenfity as Deaf. You should be thankful God that she has ten fingers and toes. Beautiful eyes, mouth, nose, face and hair...

I do not blame the Deaf Community are very angry with hearing parents who make the decision for their Deaf babies or children to get CI.

It sounds like that you do not accept your daughter for who she is. Sorry for offense you but it makes me very furious. Deaf is not medical issue. Just cant hear and speak. What is wrong with sign language in communication?

You do not accept her because she is Deaf. You want her to be like you and your wife as hearing. Cochlear Implants are full of bull-shit. It does not cure to be hearing and speaking perfect.

I have never seen so many people look at a child with such disgust, just because she has a C.I.

So why would you look with disgust to a child!!!!

If the treatment was for the reasons you give, then fine, be angry with the parents. But to take it out on the child?

I don't buy it. I think you feel so threatened by CI that you automatically reject it.

Again, WHY WOULD DEAF CULTURE TREAT A CHILD LIKE THAT?

And by the way... God nowadays also gave us the choice to be deaf.

 

[gnulinuxman]

Well, you talk as if you are a religous man, but the way you treat and judge people indicates that you somewhere lost contact.

If God intended people to be deaf, then why did Jesus cure them?

If God intended Jesus to cure all deaf people why doesn't He do it today? (and no, I do NOT think the CI is an acceptable answer to this one)

 

[dkf747]

Someone from majority hearing culture doesn't like the way Deaf Culture people looks at him, so he posts here. Everyone joins in and proceeds to do the same thing to Deaf Culture folks that they did to him. Nice way to solve the problem. Pot meet kettle.

 

[Interpretrator]

You destory her idenfity as Deaf.

By exposing her to Deaf culture?

 

[sr171soars]

If God intended Jesus to cure all deaf people why doesn't He do it today? (and no, I do NOT think the CI is an acceptable answer to this one)

The same can be said for treating any disease or condition as well. Either the medical community is wrong in treating people (say heart conditions) because God doesn't cure them or the medical community is correct in helping people as best it can. Since, the medical community is generally only interested in treating diseases/conditions that are outside the norm, hence its interest in deaf issues from the standpoint of treatment and potential cures. What are you gonna do when cochlear hair regeneration happens? Deny it because God doen't cure deafness? Just don't stand in the way of people running to get that help...lest you be trampled to the ground.

When it comes to deafness, the whole problem is whether it is to be labeled as a normal condition or a broken sense... I can tell you that it isn't the normal human condition as one tries to deny it.

 

[Interpretrator]

Either the medical community is wrong in treating people (say heart conditions) because God doesn't cure them or the medical community is correct in helping people as best it can.

And in any case I don't think a Christian Science standpoint is helpful for Jewish deaf people, or Buddhists, etc.

 

[Cloggy]

If God intended Jesus to cure all deaf people why doesn't He do it today? (and no, I do NOT think the CI is an acceptable answer to this one)

The argument is that God intended someone to be deaf. But in the bible deafness was cured.
So, the argument that "you shouldn't do anything in order to hear because God intended this" is nonsense.

God - indeed - gave us the opportunity now to choose to be deaf or not.

 

[Cloggy]

And in any case I don't think a Christian Science standpoint is helpful for Jewish deaf people, or Buddhists, etc.

Religion and medical condition are not related.....

 

[Interpretrator]

Religion and medical condition are not related.....

I couldn't agree more. That's why the discussions of God and Jesus in these threads seems very bizarre to me.