cochlear implants

[neecy]

There is no such thing to force deaf chlidren to have ASL.. It s very natural method for deaf children thats is our greatest gift tools if you mind.

I have a question...if a deaf child is born to hearing parents....HOW is ASL the natural language for that child, rather than the language of its parents? I notice you repeatedly bring up the idea that ASL is the "natural language" for the deaf community - now for the COMMUNITY as a whole I would agree with you -but a deaf child who is shown no language at all (not even ASL) won't simply start signing ASL on their own, its not an inbred instinct or automatic simply because they are born deaf. If a child is implanted with a CI pre-lingually, wouldn't it be more natural for them to learn the language of their family along with some form of sign language as a backup?

 

[gnulinuxman]

HUH! where have you been?? many deaf kids were angry at their parent for force them to have CI. Many parents are being so rude for saying this is a hearing world.. Scoffs! they dont own this world if you mind

Well, most people in the world are hearing, but I still don't see that as a reason to force a deaf person to be hearing (reading and writing works too)

This is a diversity world that has many different kind of people in this society. We dont have to be the same as hearing people like communist because they want every deafies are hearing .. oh please!

Not all hearing people want all deafies to be hearing. (I don't!)

Guess what I have seen some deaf children failed with their CI and doesnt have a great english written.. that is a big mistake for not having ASL that will help them better the concept of language first..

Anything visual will help a kid learn languages. They need to learn something visual too so they can function (all sighted hearing people these days learn to read and write, for example). But yeah, there needs to be more emphasis on written English.

Whats more I just cannot believe you dont realize many deaf babies do not have a language in early age after all they forced those kids to hear and speak only from the start.. HUH! you dont get it as I can see..

Of course not; NOBODY is born knowing a language. I don't think it's fair to force a baby to have learn that essential foundation the hard way.

Some parents are so happy to learn ASL and help their hearing babies so therefore why cant deaf babies have that too?? HUH! Deaf children is not allowed what it works well for them that is not making any sense.

Yeah, it seems many hearing people think deaf kids are somehow incapable of speaking once they learn to sign, but some of these same people see no problem with a hearing child signing.

Oral method or devices only is not gonna to make a big difference to make it success.

Well, that's true. The key word is ONLY--if it's mixed with ASL it can be effective.

ASL is more freedom and natural for those babies to express their feelings and let them know what those kids wants in a easy way to communicate.. why cant you just accept the fact?? sheesh where have you been?? my gawk. NO need to put those deaf children to be left out or isolated because of audist attitude says so.. Thats a child abuse for not giving them opportunity to have a good communication between the parents and deaf child..

Well, ASL is one way to do it. The biggest lie that's spread around about CI's and signing and oralist education is that signing automatically makes the kid unable to learn speech. This is based on old monolingualist beliefs. The new thing in hearing culture is multilingualism--that learning multiple languages is good. Why do people assume deaf children are somehow different? Their brains aren't any less capable of it than hearing people's brains.

As far as I know YOU dont sign english only. So be it! I know many of you are using PSE that includes ASL if you mind.

Yes, PSE is a mode of ASL that is signed in an English word order. It is commonly used to talk about things that are hard to describe visually. I don't even think it should be considered separate since it is a form of ASL.

boy you are far behind abuot deaf issues since you have not been listening at all after all I have explained it clearly in many topics.. I cannot believe that you still dont get it..

Well, it might have been better if people weren't flaming each other.

There is no such thing to force deaf chlidren to have ASL.. It s very natural method for deaf children thats is our greatest gift tools if you mind.

Well, you can force a deaf child to use ASL only, but that's not very good because there's no commonly-accepted way to record it on paper, and English literacy can and will go a LONG way in communicating with hearing people and learning new things.

For pete s sake!
Sweetmind

Who's Pete?

 

[Angel]

HUH! where have you been?? many deaf kids were angry at their parent for force them to have CI. Many parents are being so rude for saying this is a hearing world.. Scoffs! they dont own this world if you mind

Guess what I have seen some deaf children failed with their CI and doesnt have a great english written.. that is a big mistake for not having ASL that will help them better the concept of language first..

Please provide me a link where it say many deaf kids were angry at their parents for forcing them to have a CI, and where it say some children failed after being implanted with CI?...

Whats more I just cannot believe you dont realize many deaf babies do not have a language in early age after all they forced those kids to hear and speak only from the start.. HUH! you dont get it as I can see..

What wrong with a parent wants a child to hear? and what's wrong with a child learn to speak? I don't get it....

Some parents are so happy to learn ASL and help their hearing babies so therefore why cant deaf babies have that too?? HUH! Deaf children is not allowed what it works well for them that is not making any sense.

So you're saying that you rather to see babies learning ASL but not to speak huh?

Oral method or devices only is not gonna to make a big difference to make it success.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you there, cause there's many facts and proof shown that many children who are implant with CI had learn oral methods had made became successful in their language and speech skills than those who not wearing any devices or learn how to speak....

I rather to see deaf children wearing any sort of devices to help them hear something, and learn many langage methods to help them live in both worlds, keep this in mind, there are two worlds hearing and the deaf, a deaf child needs to be able to communicate in both worlds to fit in and have a better life as well....

ASL is more freedom and natural for those babies to express their feelings and let them know what those kids wants in a easy way to communicate.. why cant you just accept the fact?? sheesh where have you been?? my gawk. NO need to put those deaf children to be left out or isolated because of audist attitude says so.. Thats a child abuse for not giving their opportunity to have a good communication between the parents and deaf child..

Thanks God my parents didn't teach me ASL and I learned SEE when I was little, didn't like ASL, so please don't speak for every deaf child out there, cause you can only speak for yourself and do what best for you...

As far as I know YOU dont sign english only. So be it! I know many of you are using PSE that includes ASL if you mind.

How do you know? have I met you? so please don't assume saying I don't sign english, I know SEE and ASL! Thank you!

boy you are far behind about deaf issues since you have not been listening or reading very carefully at all after all I have explained it clearly in many topics.. I cannot believe that you still dont get it..

Hon, I have listen to BOTH sides, it seem you rather to listen to one side is yourself without keeping an open mind on both sides, it always what you think its best for every deaf child out there but hon, let me tell you this, you should worry about your own child don't worry about others, they're doing a good job as what they're doing for their deaf children so far....

There is no such thing to force deaf chlidren to have ASL.. It s very natural method for deaf children thats is our greatest gift tools if you mind.

I'm deaf and ASL wasn't natural to me and the greatest gift of all is being able to hear something than nothing at all

 

[Sweetmind]

READ a book that is For Hearing People Only. It might help you to understand it better..

LOOK I was isolated in my own home without my family s signing around me... So why force deaf chlidren to read their lips or listen with devices that is not completely to hear every comprehension sentence that they speak too fast.. You are not making any sense since u might be latened deaf as I think..

I can see many CI adult doesnt tell the truth as i can see.. I used to talk on the phone with my HA that is only basic language that we are familiar with my family and very few friends who knows deaf people,

I dont believe you understand everything unless u are latened deaf that would be a very different story.. Dont bullshyte me about deaf children who can hear the phone 100 percent with their CI devices. I have had been seeing many deafies llike to hear the sound like a music that i can understand it very well . It doesnt mean they are hearing and can hear every comprehension words with CI alone.

It s okay for latened deaf people to have CI n ot for deaf children in early age.. I respect that.. No big deal but you cannot speak for deaf children if you are latened deaf.. so be it!

Thank you!
Sweetmind

 

[gnulinuxman]

I have a question...if a deaf child is born to hearing parents....HOW is ASL the natural language for that child, rather than the language of its parents? I notice you repeatedly bring up the idea that ASL is the "natural language" for the deaf community - now for the COMMUNITY as a whole I would agree with you -but a deaf child who is shown no language at all (not even ASL) won't simply start signing ASL on their own, its not an inbred instinct or automatic simply because they are born deaf. If a child is implanted with a CI pre-lingually, wouldn't it be more natural for them to learn the language of their family along with some form of sign language as a backup?

I can answer this one...

ASL is considered by culturally Deaf people to be more natural than English because it is a visual language and takes advantage that deaf people can still see.

A deaf baby that has no language at all is going to have an awfully hard time learning an AUDITORY language they are unable to hear!!

As to your CI point, I think implanting babies is wrong in the first place, but if it's happened, signing is a good backup.

 

[ismi]

My fiancee has CP but was forced to walk normally.

I'll grant that once upon a time, that was the norm. However, in all of my experiences in the disabled community, I have come across very few cases of the current generation of Americans (other countries perhaps not being at the same place we are) who were forced to "walk normally" as children. In any case, I stand by my statement that "elective" surgery for children with physical disabilities is considered acceptable, and that I see a big difference in attitudes between that and CIs.

As far as your fiancee's individual case, if "aesthetics" (as opposed to QOL) were a motivating factor in her treatment, that is indeed unfortunate. But it is far from the standard of care today - and an anecdote does not a pattern make.

 

[gnulinuxman]

Please provide me a link where it say many deaf kids were angry at their parents for forcing them to have a CI, and where it say some children failed after being implanted with CI?...

It is hard to provide links to people I discussed this with IN PERSON!!!

What wrong with a parent wants a child to hear? and what's wrong with a child learn to speak? I don't get it....

What's wrong with a child who doesn't care about hearing? And what's wrong with a child learning to sign? I don't get it...

So you're saying that you rather to see babies learning ASL but not to speak huh?

Why is this always assumed? It's that "either/or" attitude again.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you there, cause there's many facts and proof shown that many children who are implant with CI had learn oral methods had made became successful in their language and speech skills than those who not wearing any devices or learn how to speak....

I rather to see deaf children wearing any sort of devices to help them hear something, and learn many langage methods to help them live in both worlds, keep this in mind, there are two worlds hearing and the deaf, a deaf child needs to be able to communicate in both worlds to fit in and have a better life as well....

Why do you think hearing is so important for everything? It isn't. Deaf people can communicate with hearing people in other ways than jaw-flapping, you know.

Thanks God my parents didn't teach me ASL and I learned SEE when I was little, didn't like ASL, so please don't speak for every deaf child out there, cause you can only speak for yourself and do what best for you...

You hate ASL. Fine. Just don't bash those of us who LIKE it. That is a pretty elitist attitude there about it, though.

How do you know? have I met you? so please don't assume saying I don't sign english, I know SEE and ASL! Thank you!

Are you lying? You just got through saying how happy you were that your parents never taught you ASL, and that you absolutely hated ASL. I hope you realize you're talking in circles here.

Hon, I have listen to BOTH sides, it seem you rather to listen to one side is yourself without keeping an open mind on both sides, it always what you think its best for every deaf child out there but hon, let me tell you this, you should worry about your own child don't worry about others, they're doing a good job as what they're doing for their deaf children so far....

Not all parents are. My fiancee was raised to be an oral deaf person by her parents. and they beat her for signing. PARENTS AREN'T PERFECT.

I'm deaf and ASL wasn't natural to me and the greatest gift of all is being able to hear something than nothing at all

Explain. Why is hearing so valuable to you with all this noise in the world?!

 

[Angel]

gnulinuxman,

I wasn't responding to you, I was responding to Sweetmind and she can speak for herself....

 

[Sweetmind]

Thank you for saving my time to explain to angel..gnulinuxman. You got it everything to be said all along.


Also there are so many things to say that has never been informed by deaf people who wants to tell the truth. It has never be heard from a deaf person out there because audist attitude people want us to shut our mouths and keep it into the coffins that has to be locked forever.. I wont let it happens since I am unlocked the coffin and tell the truth.

CI professional and some CIers with a very negative atttude about deafness, who lied so much in many ways that ticks me off. They are very selfish people and trying to make money out on us that is not working so well. it s still going on and on..

I know some CIers told me the truth about not hear every words at all. Just the sound. So why bother to deal with all that BS about CI itself for deaf children.

Latened Deaf people can have CI because they already knew what to hear those comprehension words all their lives. So it makes sense for them capable to hear everything with CI.. NOt d/ Deaf children.

ALSO, I have seen some CIers people here have said it gives them a bad headaches. It reminds me of hearing aid that is the same problem from the noise pollution.

I dont have to prove anything since you dont read it carefully because there are many complaints about that CI issues that they had experienced with it for a long time. So there!

CI is not wonderful device as well as it goes the same for HA device. That s simple you cannot accept the way it goes for deaf children or deaf people's feeling about it.


There are a lot of ASLers who write a very beautiful english written out there as far as I know you are overlooked in many ways.. Or you dont want to know or want people to know that.. ummpphh..!!!!

CI is worthless and wasting my and their time because people forced deaf children to hear the artificial hearing from CI.. Later they get older and dump CI into the toilet as well. what a joke!

I rather to spend money on Literacy than force them to hear the sounds that they couldnt know where it s coming from the sound in many ways because there are too many noisy around them..

Guess what many deaf kids from d/Deaf school or mainstream school.. they do still have a problem with their english written while they were taught see by hearing teachers.. Thats a proven already in todays as well as I have witnessed and couldnt believe SEE is not the answer. Sorry pal!


If you dont mind that reading and writing have to do with the english written not by our deaf ears. Thank you! It s our brain that built up our knowledge from the book not from the sounds or devices. So there!

Thanks!

Sweetmind

 

[Angel]

LOL, soo unbelieveable...

 

[gnulinuxman]

LOL, soo unbelieveable...

What is? Can't take a deviant hearing person siding with a Deaf person???

 

[ismi]

Explain. Why is hearing so valuable to you with all this noise in the world?!

:-$

Ever seen that emoticon? It means put your money where your mouth is. What's the longest you've ever spent without hearing? Not that hearing is the center of the universe, but you have lived - and grown up - hearing everything, so it wouldn't be odd if you took it for granted.

Do you listen to music? Do you talk on the phone, or only have a TTY/VP? Do you speak when you're not with other signers, or do you simply "play deaf"? Do you change the channel when an uncaptioned show comes on? There are many things that hearing makes easier, simply because this world is dominated by hearing people, just as being white or heterosexual or male can make things easier simply because this country is dominated by white heterosexual males.

Note: I'm not bashing on white hetero males, particularly as I am one - just making a comparison to heteronormativity and white and/or male privilege.

 

[Sweetmind]

Angel .....

Mind you! why picking on him? why dont you tell every person who does that too. I m glad he did it and has the right to reply anytime. HE knows more than you do. What a amazing for a hearing person with a disability, who understand me very well because he has a great attitude about us deaf people while you dont have it. what a pity!

He understand because he is disability himself too..He has a great positive outlook about deaf people s abilities without any devices.

Gooooddd Nigggght !

Sweetmind

 

[gnulinuxman]

:-$

Ever seen that emoticon? It means put your money where your mouth is. What's the longest you've ever spent without hearing? Not that hearing is the center of the universe, but you have lived - and grown up - hearing everything, so it wouldn't be odd if you took it for granted.

I'm not stupid. My hearing is so damn sensitive that I've wished I was deaf many times during my life. I get headaches from all the noise very easily.

Do you listen to music?

Yes, but so does my deaf fiancee by feeling the speakers.

Do you talk on the phone, or only have a TTY/VP?

Neither--I avoid it when I can because my autism makes it hard to talk on the phone (it's too loud and I can't handle large blocks of auditory information very well).

Do you speak when you're not with other signers, or do you simply "play deaf"?

Of course I speak! Why on Earth would I play "deaf" with non-signers?

Do you change the channel when an uncaptioned show comes on?

Yes, because I prefer watching TV with the CC on because I don't like missing words due to noise in the house or something (I'm above a sump pump and can't hear the TV over it without turning it up.)

There are many things that hearing makes easier, simply because this world is dominated by hearing people, just as being white or heterosexual or male can make things easier simply because this country is dominated by white heterosexual males.

Note: I'm not bashing on white hetero males, particularly as I am one - just making a comparison to heteronormativity and white and/or male privilege.

There are things about hearing that are bad, too, like if you have sensitive hearing. Noise pollution is getting worse in this world, and I hate it.

 

[R2D2]

Angel .....

Mind you! why picking on him? why dont you tell every person who does that too. I m glad he did it and has the right to reply anytime. HE knows more than you do. What a amazing for a hearing person with a disability, who understand me very well because he has a great attitude about us deaf people while you dont have it. what a pity!

He understand because he is disability himself too..He has a great positive outlook about deaf people s abilities without any devices.

Gooooddd Nigggght !

Sweetmind

Actually Angel tries to be fair to everyone and has in the past defended people who have mixed feelings about CIs. I find it surprising that you accuse her of having a bad attitude about deaf people.

It seems to me from reading your posts that you can't cope with differences of opinion to the point of telling Angel that she knows less about being deaf than your hearing friend who agrees with you.

No hearing person could possibly know more about being deaf than a deaf person.

Get over it - we are a diverse group from different backgrounds and with different needs, different preferences and so on. Why do we need to be clones of each other to be really and truly deaf?

 

[gnulinuxman]

Why does everything here turn into an ego conflict?

 

[sr171soars]

Why does everything here turn into an ego conflict?

Why are you surprised? You know why.

 

[Cloggy]

Can I say something? It's hard to restrain myself with so much nonsense suddenly on this topic.

 

[Angel]

Actually Angel tries to be fair to everyone and has in the past defended people who have mixed feelings about CIs. I find it surprising that you accuse her of having a bad attitude about deaf people.

It seems to me from reading your posts that you can't cope with differences of opinion to the point of telling Angel that she knows less about being deaf than your hearing friend who agrees with you.

No hearing person could possibly know more about being deaf than a deaf person.

Get over it - we are a diverse group from different backgrounds and with different needs, different preferences and so on. Why do we need to be clones of each other to be really and truly deaf?

:smiling: Thank you R2D2

 

[Cheri]

Please provide me a link where it say many deaf kids were angry at their parents for forcing them to have a CI, and where it say some children failed after being implanted with CI?...

I'm not surprise none of those Cers members here have came forward with any links. Go firgures, I'm here to provide links....
Deaf Teenager Against Cochlear Implant Discussion of an Implanted Teen's Experience

Cochlear implants in children: past, present and future

Up to 40% of deaf children are likely to have another difficulty and one which an implant may not help.

What wrong with a parent wants a child to hear? and what's wrong with a child learn to speak? I don't get it....

Just remember, Cochlear implants does not work for everyone, everyone is different, I don't want to see parents choosing a CI in desperation without considering all of the options, What if it fails? It's a wasted of money, Doctors get paid, You get nothing.