cochlear implants

[netrox]

Ok, Sweetmind, there are audists out there. But don't you think you're equally guilty of being deafist - glorifying deafness when in reality, it's not all that great?

 

[Sweetmind]

ADA doesnt do anything! Are we blamed for it after all they are trying to do with us to become a hearing child or functionally hearing.. Oh please! Thats what it turns me off.. thats not the whole reason for every d/Deaf children to have to have it. Why bother to destroy more than d/Deaf child have their disabiliies beside being a deaf itself? That's how I see it s more disabled than just being deaf itself. Scoffs!

Let them have their own ADAPTION. Period!! Let d/Deaf children decide for themselves not the parents. I dont agree with it .. PERIOD!!!!

None of anyone s business for having them to be a hearing child or pretend to be a functionally hearing.. OH thats sicko!

I can speak and sign in my own hands that works for both sides NOT ONE SIDED!! PERIOD!!

Thats what it s all about TWO WAYS STREET. We do not have to have the requirement for their permission to destroy our deafness anymore. Thats against those d/Deaf children s will. MIND YOU!

 

[Cloggy]

... Thats against those d/Deaf children s will. MIND YOU!

Deaf babies/toddlers are deaf, not Deaf. It needs to grow up in a Deaf environment for it to become Deaf. Since most deaf babies are born from hearing parents, they will grow up in a hearing environment and since the parents are not familiar with Deaf environment, it will take a long time before they meet Deaf culture.

My child was born deaf. Her parents, family and their friends live in a hearing culture.
The scenario is completely different compared to deaf children born from parents that are deaf and live in a Deaf culture.

Tell me Sweetmind... What's the percentage of deaf children born in hearing culture versus deaf children born in Deaf culture....?????

No, don't answer straight away... find out......

 

[Passivist]

ADA doesnt do anything! Are we blamed for it after all they are trying to do with us to become a hearing child or functionally hearing.. Oh please! Thats what it turns me off.. thats not the whole reason for every d/Deaf children to have to have it. Why bother to destroy more than d/Deaf child have their disabiliies beside being a deaf itself? That's how I see it s more disabled than just being deaf itself. Scoffs!

Let them have their own ADAPTION. Period!! Let d/Deaf children decide for themselves not the parents. I dont agree with it .. PERIOD!!!!

None of anyone s business for having them to be a hearing child or pretend to be a functionally hearing.. OH thats sicko!

I can speak and sign in my own hands that works for both sides NOT ONE SIDED!! PERIOD!!

Thats what it s all about TWO WAYS STREET. We do not have to have the requirement for their permission to destroy our deafness anymore. Thats against those d/Deaf children s will. MIND YOU!

I don't think this analogy is correct. If a child had a serious eysight issue, which an operation would correct, would the parent then stand by and do nothing until a child decides to agree or not ? that child may be months old, it's not realistic. CI's do not provide 'functional hearing', they provide to a degree access to sound. They do not 'take away deafness' either, they cement the fact by removing the ear mechanism ! What you are suggesting is parents have no rights whatever regarding their children's well-being and basic health. The law states the opposite.

Instead you are dangerously suggesting members of the deaf community should decide, what a child's future should be, based on what exactly ? Not on personally having a CI and finding it 'doesn't work', but the fact OTHERS have had them ? Most with CI's seem to be reasonably happy with them, it is those who do not have them or do not want them, who are creating dissent, this is NOT respecting other deaf people, and it certainly won't help your cause if you attack the parental choices either, (we know anti-CI groups realise this, because they shift attacks toward the medical profession instead), parents may feel this narrow-minded view of CI's, will mean their children will suffer in a deaf community, so promote CI's as a 'way out' in response !

They will feel their children won't be made part of, or welcomed into the 'deaf community' because they can hear something. CI's/BAHA's/Hearing aids are al to assist those with hearing loss, you may feel there is no need for this, but this is anti-choice. Can a parent sue the deaf community for blocking access to sound ? a child may grow up and think "I never had this equipment or access because the deaf community said it was bad, and my parents listened to them, now I cannnot work here, am barely literate, or access much at all, and I'm totally dependant on others to know what is happening...."

 

[loml]

Can a parent sue the deaf community for blocking access to sound ? a child may grow up and think "I never had this equipment or access because the deaf community said it was bad, and my parents listened to them, now I cannnot work here, am barely literate, or access much at all, and I'm totally dependant on others to know what is happening...."

Very interesting analogy.

 

[deafdyke]

It needs to grow up in a Deaf environment for it to become Deaf

Ummmm no. I know a lot of dhh folks who grew up Hearing/Oral, who got introuced to Sign and Deaf culture relatively late, who ID as Deaf!!!!!!!!

They will feel their children won't be made part of, or welcomed into the 'deaf community' because they can hear something. CI's/BAHA's/Hearing aids are al to assist those with hearing loss, you may feel there is no need for this, but this is anti-choice. Can a parent sue the deaf community for blocking access to sound ? a child may grow up and think "I never had this equipment or access because the deaf community said it was bad, and my parents listened to them, now I cannnot work here, am barely literate, or access much at all, and I'm totally dependant on others to know what is happening...."
Today 08:03 AM

Passifist, EXCELLENT DEAD-ON post! Sweetmind, NOBODY here is advocating extreme auditory-verbalism, that is total asslimulation into the hearing world.
So why are you pushing extreme Deafism? Dhh kids should NOT be made victims of extreme ideologies, either extreme pro-oral(aka auditory verbal) or extreme Deaf! Dhh kids need access to BOTH worlds, so that they can make choices as to which worlds they want to be a part of! The choice should be put into the CHILD"S hands! That way, there's no lingering resentment against the parents for what they did or didn't do..... It gives the KIDS choices!

 

[Cloggy]

Ummmm no. I know a lot of dhh folks who grew up Hearing/Oral, who got introuced to Sign and Deaf culture relatively late, who ID as Deaf!!!!!!!!

I agree. I was talking about children...

Passifist, EXCELLENT DEAD-ON post! Sweetmind, NOBODY here is advocating extreme auditory-verbalism, that is total asslimulation into the hearing world.
So why are you pushing extreme Deafism? Dhh kids should NOT be made victims of extreme ideologies, either extreme pro-oral(aka auditory verbal) or extreme Deaf! Dhh kids need access to BOTH worlds, so that they can make choices as to which worlds they want to be a part of! The choice should be put into the CHILD"S hands! That way, there's no lingering resentment against the parents for what they did or didn't do..... It gives the KIDS choices!

Agree!

 

[Sweetmind]

DUH what does it have to do with sound while Deaf children are learning for??? HUH!!! Most of you dont get it.. Most deaf oralist people failed with their English written after all they were forced to hear with devices and speak orally only without signings that iss still exists. It s a proven and still failed on them and their education.

Most of you are very selfish and self centered.. SOUND is the noise pollution that gives them an headaches and distraction from the classroom all the time.. It doesnt help them to learn everything that u are expected us to hear with those devices.. U are a big joke.

CLOGGY u dont know nothing what s it alike to be deaf as well I DO and am a Deaf mother of two hearing children that I gave them an opportunity to learn ASL. It works so well for my kids into their education.. I m proud of them all the way.

U said u know a little ASL that u are not telling me the whole truth from the start.. I have lost respect in you and many others who doesnt have any respect for any deaf children s rights.

NETROX U think you are better than anyone else since u got CI.. You are not telling the truth since u have been in Deaf school many years with signings.

We are legally deaf not hearing person because of CI.. thats full of craps!!!

Scoffs!
Sweetmind

 

[neecy]

DUH what does it have to do with sound while Deaf children are learning for??? HUH!!! Most of you dont get it.. Most deaf oralist people failed with their English written after all they were forced to hear with devices and speak orally only without signings that iss still exists. It s a proven and still failed on them and their education.

Most of you are very selfish and self centered.. SOUND is the noise pollution that gives them an headaches and distraction from the classroom all the time.. It doesnt help them to learn everything that u are expected us to hear with those devices.. U are a big joke.

CLOGGY u dont know nothing what s it alike to be deaf as well I DO and am a Deaf mother of two hearing children that I gave them an opportunity to learn ASL. It works so well for my kids into their education.. I m proud of them all the way.

U said u know a little ASL that u are not telling me the whole truth from the start.. I have lost respect in you and many others who doesnt have any respect for any deaf children s rights.

NETROX U think you are better than anyone else since u got CI.. You are not telling the truth since u have been in Deaf school many years with signings.

We are legally deaf not hearing person because of CI.. thats full of craps!!!

Scoffs!
Sweetmind

Sweetmind - you REALLY need to learn to be more tolerant and understanding that there is *MORE THAN ONE WAY* to teach deaf children. Your "ASL only" method doesn't work for everybody. I applaud Cloggy for doing what he believes is best for his daughter. He is NOT keeping her away from the deaf community and wants her to learn ASL as well as speak, read and write.

You keep preaching about some having no tolerance for the deaf - you certainly don't seem to be showing any yourself.

 

[Sweetmind]

how is that so for me to be one way?? i have had been wearing HA , oral speaking all my life while I m pissed for not having an opportunity to learn more than what I have learned in the past? BACK OFF neecy .. u have no respect for deaf people who have a true experience.. MIND YOU!

It doesnt take me anywhere after all those people like you hav a very negative audist attitude... JEEEEEZZZ!!! You dont see many deaf children that i have seen that turns out very sad and horrible things happens to those deaf children.


Your attitude shows that oral method is the one way ... so whats your point?? Force those kids to have CI because of CI professional told a big lie to the parents who believes in them,, SCOFFS!

Sighs!

Sweetmind

 

[neecy]

how is that so for me to be one way?? i have had been wearing HA , oral speaking all my life while I m pissed for not having an opportunity to learn more than what I have learned in the past? BACK OFF neecy .. u have no respect for deaf people who have a true experience.. MIND YOU!

It doesnt take me anywhere after all those people like you hav a very negative audist attitude... JEEEEEZZZ!!! You dont see many deaf children that i have seen that turns out very sad and horrible things happens to those deaf children.


Sighs!

Sweetmind

*yawn* you've been calling me an audist for years...you need a new line.

I've known many deaf children as well, I've also had "true experiences", and I will call a spade a spade. You need to open your eyes and quit attacking people simply because their ideas/beliefs don't jive with yours.

Yes ASL is fantastic for many people - but its not the only way.

 

[gnulinuxman]

*yawn* you've been calling me an audist for years...you need a new line.

I've known many deaf children as well, I've also had "true experiences", and I will call a spade a spade. You need to open your eyes and quit attacking people simply because their ideas/beliefs don't jive with yours.

Yes ASL is fantastic for many people - but its not the only way.

Well, maybe she is frustrated because of your "either-or" attitude rather than what you think she has. She was FORCED to speak and got in trouble for signing. She doesn't want to see that happen to anyone else. You may think she's paranoid, but she she is really telling the truth and has been through a lot of torture with oral-only education. We actually think deaf people should learn signing FIRST so they have a language base, and THEN, and ONLY THEN, consider speech. Do you know what it's like to grow up without a language? It's pretty hard.

 

[neecy]

Well, maybe she is frustrated because of your "either-or" attitude rather than what you think she has. She was FORCED to speak and got in trouble for signing. She doesn't want to see that happen to anyone else. You may think she's paranoid, but she she is really telling the truth and has been through a lot of torture with oral-only education. We actually think deaf people should learn signing FIRST so they have a language base, and THEN, and ONLY THEN, consider speech. Do you know what it's like to grow up without a language? It's pretty hard.

I don't disbelieve for a moment that its hard. It most certainly must be! But I do believe that there isn't just "one way" to educate deaf children. I know many people who were taught ASL as their first language and afterwards, they found learning English to be almost impossible. I'm sorry she was persecuted for using sign language, but deaf education has improved by leaps and bounds, and thankfully people are starting to realize that there are more tools available to the deaf, and more methods, not "just ASL" or "just oral". Lets hope that trend continues, and look forward to the future instead of constantly dwelling on what might have happened in the past. Education (of deaf and hearing) is the key

 

[Sweetmind]

Thank you so much, gnulinuxman.. I am so grateful to have you and wish there are more people like you. It s very slow pace that it will change attitude in a long run. You are much better understanding than she is.


I m tired of putting down because I am a real natural deaf person myself while she isnt because she got so popular that she has her own CI .. whooooppeeee doooo!! CI is a materialism while ASL is a true language that i prefer to go for a real natural method than to be fixed that cost money and physical damage by CI.

I dont believe everything she said.. I m more visual than she does cuz she is too busy to listen with her devices that doesnt make her completely like a hearing person.. Unless she is latend deaf that would be a different story. She has already established her language before becoming deaf. Then she can have CI but not for deaf children.. it s totally different between adult and children.

Thanks!
Sweetmind

 

[gnulinuxman]

I don't disbelieve for a moment that its hard. It most certainly must be! But I do believe that there isn't just "one way" to educate deaf children. I know many people who were taught ASL as their first language and afterwards, they found learning English to be almost impossible. I'm sorry she was persecuted for using sign language, but deaf education has improved by leaps and bounds, and thankfully people are starting to realize that there are more tools available to the deaf, and more methods, not "just ASL" or "just oral". Lets hope that trend continues, and look forward to the future instead of constantly dwelling on what might have happened in the past. Education (of deaf and hearing) is the key

If you want deaf kids to learn English, give it to them in a form they can access: READING and WRITING. One common mistake (at least in the past) is to emphasize speaking over literacy, so these kids ended up wanting to detach themselves further from English. Even if a deaf person can't speak, as long as they're literate in written English, they can still communicate with hearing people by writing it down.

 

[Sweetmind]

Like I have said it would be much better if we have ASL and SE with oral speaking later on after we understand the concept of language first.. if you mind.. So therefore we can work together in the classroom with ASL and Signed English than having too many artificial languages while hearing people have one language in English.. Duhie!

Many deaf oralist and oralism couldnt read it correctly as far as I see in all deaf.com.. What s that supposed to be??


YOu think you know everything but you, NEECY are making a big mistake.

If you want deaf kids to learn English, give it to them in a form they can access: READING and WRITING. One common mistake (at least in the past) is to emphasize speaking over literacy, so these kids ended up wanting to detach themselves further from English. Even if a deaf person can't speak, as long as they're literate in written English, they can still communicate with hearing people by writing it down.

Bingo!! you got that right. It s always one way of oral method that hasnt ended of it y et.. sighs!

Many thanks!

Sweetmind

 

[gnulinuxman]

Thank you so much, gnulinuxman.. I am so grateful to have you and wish there are more people like you. It s very slow pace that it will change attitude in a long run. You are much better understanding than she is.

Thanks; I try.

I m tired of putting down because I am a real natural deaf person myself while she isnt because she got so popular that she has her own CI .. whooooppeeee doooo!! CI is a materialism while ASL is a true language that i prefer to go for a real natural method than to be fixed that cost money and physical damage by CI.

That's your choice. I just wish it was a choice to more people (think babies here). There is no need for this fight here, though. I am just against FORCING the implant on people.

I dont believe everything she said.. I m more visual than she does cuz she is too busy to listen with her devices that doesnt make her completely like a hearing person.. Unless she is latend deaf that would be a different story. She has already established her language before becoming deaf. Then she can have CI but not for deaf children.. it s totally different between adult and children.

Um, this seems like a put-down, but I'm guessing it was unintentional. Maybe you are more visual. Implanting children is wrong in my opinion, but they say it's the best time to "save" the kid from the Deaf World, but is it really necessary? The only thing I think the CI should be used for is late-deafened adults or deaf adults because they themselves can determine whether they want the risk. The CI is a pretty good idea for late-deafened adults. (If I was a late-deafened adult, though, I'd just sign, but that's just me.)

Thanks!
Sweetmind

 

[gnulinuxman]

Deaf babies/toddlers are deaf, not Deaf. It needs to grow up in a Deaf environment for it to become Deaf. Since most deaf babies are born from hearing parents, they will grow up in a hearing environment and since the parents are not familiar with Deaf environment, it will take a long time before they meet Deaf culture.

My child was born deaf. Her parents, family and their friends live in a hearing culture.
The scenario is completely different compared to deaf children born from parents that are deaf and live in a Deaf culture.

Tell me Sweetmind... What's the percentage of deaf children born in hearing culture versus deaf children born in Deaf culture....?????

No, don't answer straight away... find out......

Well, I'm not Sweetmind, but I can tell you that your question is irrelevant to this topic. The topic here is rights, not who is born into which culture more often. Granted, hearing parents aren't usually exposed to Deaf culture, but what worries me is that they just brush it off or say they love their kids so much that they want them out of the Deaf culture. I am a hearing person who is proud to be in both cultures. There are ups and downs to both cultures, but that's the beauty of it. I think hearing parents need to try harder to get to know Deaf culture before trashing it.

 

[gnulinuxman]

Ok, Sweetmind, there are audists out there. But don't you think you're equally guilty of being deafist - glorifying deafness when in reality, it's not all that great?

If she's so deafist, why am I friends with her? After all, I'm a hearing person, so by your logic, she has to hate me!

But the point here is that she is proud of who she is. We all should be proud of who we are. We just see attempts by people to change others to conform to "normalcy".

 

[neecy]

?
YOu think you know everything but you, NEECY are making a big mistake.

I never have proclaimed to know anything - hell I learn things every day from interacting with the members here!!!! I'm giving an opinion that there is more than just *one* way of teaching language. You need to equipt a child with all the tools available then find out what works best with them. Everybody is different If I knew everything I'd say that there was only one way that worked and would only believe in that one way.

Variety is the spice of life.