Change the future for a deaf child

Status
Not open for further replies.
jillio said:
Most of them would. Because they have never experienced anything other than their little oral only world. However, within the deaf/Deaf community are people who have experienced both. They have a valid comparison. Someone who has never stepped outside the box and experienced something else has no comparison. Its like saying "vanilla is my favorite flavor" when you have never tasted any thing but vanilla. How do you know it is your favorite until you have something to compare it with?
Click to expand...

But aren't we all saying that children should use ASL because it's easier? Isn't that the end, when we strip everything away? It's easier for them in the short term?
 
faire_jour said:
But aren't we all saying that children should use ASL because it's easier? Isn't that the end, when we strip everything away? It's easier for them in the short term?
Click to expand...

Perhaps "easier" is your interpretation, but it certainly isn't mine, nor do I believe it is Shel's.
 
jillio said:
Most of them would. Because they have never experienced anything other than their little oral only world. However, within the deaf/Deaf community are people who have experienced both. They have a valid comparison. Someone who has never stepped outside the box and experienced something else has no comparison. Its like saying "vanilla is my favorite flavor" when you have never tasted any thing but vanilla. How do you know it is your favorite until you have something to compare it with?
Click to expand...


Even those who went to Deaf schools and use ASL still have a wider perspective than the oral-only deaf people cuz they have experience in the hearing world also.
 
Daredevel7 said:
:) awesome.

Also, I want to add: When I say that I think I'd do better in an oral only environment, I am thinking from a realistic standpoint, based on the choices I (or rather my mom) had at the time. If you ask what would be my IDEAL school, I would answer differently (wouldn't everyone anyway? :) ).
Click to expand...

Thank you.

You think you would do better in an oral environment, because your experience is with an oral environment. Is that what you are saying? I don't want to misinterpret.
 
jillio said:
They are not public record, but they can be accessed. All colleges admission policies are public record.

The fact is, if the practice you are describing is going on, then those schools risk loosing federal funding, as well as having to pay out a huge amount on a discrimination suit. No reputable university is going to risk being shut down for something like that.

And again, if the university has an open enrollment policy, then they apply it across the board. In fact, with an open enrollment policy, all they are concerned with is that a student graduated from high school. That is the only requirement for admission. Admit everyone, and flunk out those that can't hack it. They could care less what high school you attended. Their only concern is that you have a diploma or a GED.
Click to expand...

You're assuming that I'm saying they would more likely to accept a D student from a private school than a A student from a public school. Im saying, if TWO EQUAL D students apply, and there's no other distinctive characteristics, private school person is more likely to get in.

Also, a lot of college admissions actually do NOT have a minimum standard for GPA or SAT scores, only a "recommended" value.
 
Daredevel7 said:
You're assuming that I'm saying they would more likely to accept a D student from a private school than a A student from a public school. Im saying, if TWO EQUAL D students apply, and there's no other distinctive characteristics, private school person is more likely to get in.

Also, a lot of college admissions actually do NOT have a minimum standard for GPA or SAT scores, only a "recommended" value.
Click to expand...

That would still be applying different criteria based on the school attended, and that is illegal. If one gets in, the other has to be admitted, as well. Or both are denied.

Yes, those are the ones with open enrollment.
 
shel90 said:
Even those who went to Deaf schools and use ASL still have a wider perspective than the oral-only deaf people cuz they have experience in the hearing world also.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
faire_jour said:
But aren't we all saying that children should use ASL because it's easier? Isn't that the end, when we strip everything away? It's easier for them in the short term?
Click to expand...

Why take a child's right to full access to language? It is not about easier..it is about FULL and EQUAL access to language which EVERY child DESERVES!
 
faire_jour said:
Give me a better word then. Strip away all the semantics, and get down to the truth.
Click to expand...

I'd prefer not to put words in your mouth. I think Shel and I have both explained why we believe that ASL is beneficial to a deaf student.
 
shel90 said:
Why take a child's right to full access to language? It is not about easier..it is about FULL and EQUAL access to language which EVERY child DESERVES!
Click to expand...

But oral advocates (especially AVT) believe that CI kids have full access through technology and training.

Also, ASL users do not have full access at all times, just like you say CI users don't. If an ASL user goes to McDonalds, they do not have access top anything the people around him are saying, what the cahier says, what the cook says to the cashier. They have access to NONE of that information. How is that full access? Or are we only talking about school and not the rest of the world?
 
Daredevel7 said:
shel90 said:
It isn't worse than saying "People who go to rich private schools have a better chance to get into a good college than people who go to public schools."
Statistically they have a better chance, but that doesn't mean if you don't do well in public schools, you can't get into a good college. It mostly means if you do okay in private schools, you probably can get into a good college anyway.
Click to expand...

I dont agree with that view either..I have always been against with the percieved notation that kids from private schools/upper class having more opportunities than those who are from poor or middle class families.
Click to expand...
 
Daredevel7 said:
You're assuming that I'm saying they would more likely to accept a D student from a private school than a A student from a public school. Im saying, if TWO EQUAL D students apply, and there's no other distinctive characteristics, private school person is more likely to get in.

Also, a lot of college admissions actually do NOT have a minimum standard for GPA or SAT scores, only a "recommended" value.
Click to expand...

trust me... that's a load of bullock. Just because what happened at your school doesn't mean it's because of a private school status. There's something more to the story than just GPA & school name because that is not the first thing the admission office looks for. Did you ask each of D-average student what they've got to show beside GPA?
 
faire_jour said:
But oral advocates (especially AVT) believe that CI kids have full access through technology and training.
Click to expand...

The key word here is "believe"

We already knwo that ASL gives every child regardless of their hearing status full access to language.
 
jillio said:
And that is where they make their biggest mistake.
Click to expand...

Why do we need to listen to them anyway? They have never experienced what it is like to be deaf. :roll:
 
Jiro said:
trust me... that's a load of bullock. Just because what happened at your school doesn't mean it's because of a private school status. There's something more to the story than just GPA & school name because that is not the first thing the admission office looks for. Did you ask each of D-average student what they've got to show beside GPA?
Click to expand...

Yes, there is something else going on. Its called an open enrollment policy.
 
shel90 said:
Why do we need to listen to them anyway? They have never experienced what it is like to be deaf. :roll:
Click to expand...

Bingo. And if a CI student has full access to spoken language in the classroom through technology and skills, why is it that a CI student in a mainstreamed high school would need CART to access the information they are missing?
 
jillio said:
Thank you.

You think you would do better in an oral environment, because your experience is with an oral environment. Is that what you are saying? I don't want to misinterpret.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're asking. I'm saying, given the choices I had, oral was best for me. Choices were go to a local deaf school (which was not very good), move away to a good deaf school (my family is important to me), or go to oral school.

Anyone could say "I wish I had...." but if they REALLY think about it and try to realistically incorporate it into their life, it may not be as simple as it seems. I could say "Man, I wish I had ASL growing up" What does this mean? Would I have to go to a deaf school for this? Or would I have to go somewhere for a summer to learn ASL? Would a summer be enough? Would I stay at that deaf school or go to the same private school I went, but only with a terp? Would this mean I want to be able to talk in ASL with other people, so I would have to try to find deaf events to interact with other deaf people? I could go on.

Anyway, I don't really know if oral only is better for me, but my point is, that YOU don't either. You don't know for sure that I'd do better in a deaf school, ultimately. Life is too easily affected by the smallest things. Butterfly effect!!!

Add:
For example, Shel is not happy about the way she was raised, but ya know what? If she was raised with ASL like what she wanted, she might not want be a Deaf Ed. teacher, she might not "see" how hearing people are with oral deaf people and with ASL people, she might not even join AD at all!!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top