Change the future for a deaf child

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Daredevel7 said:
I'm not sure what you're asking. I'm saying, given the choices I had, oral was best for me. Choices were go to a local deaf school (which was not very good), move away to a good deaf school (my family is important to me), or go to oral school.

Anyone could say "I wish I had...." but if they REALLY think about it and try to realistically incorporate it into their life, it may not be as simple as it seems. I could say "Man, I wish I had ASL growing up" What does this mean? Would I have to go to a deaf school for this? Or would I have to go somewhere for a summer to learn ASL? Would a summer be enough? Would I stay at that deaf school or go to the same private school I went, but only with a terp? Would this mean I want to be able to talk in ASL with other people, so I would have to try to find deaf events to interact with other deaf people? I could go on.

Anyway, I don't really know if oral only is better for me, but my point is, that YOU don't either. You don't know for sure that I'd do better in a deaf school, ultimately. Life is too easily affected by the smallest things. Butterfly effect!!!
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We'll never know the answer to your questions, because you did not have the comparitive experience that would supply those answers.

And that was a wierd movie!:giggle:
 
faire_jour said:
I added more to my previous response while you were answering, sorry.
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Since you added, I will answer. What makes you think a CI user has access to what the cashier is saying to the cook? Most McDonalds are very noisy environments. Hell, I'm hearing, and I don't have access to what the cashier says to the cook. Nor is it really vital information. However, in a classroom, that is not the case.
 
Daredevel7 said:
I'm not sure what you're asking. I'm saying, given the choices I had, oral was best for me. Choices were go to a local deaf school (which was not very good), move away to a good deaf school (my family is important to me), or go to oral school.

Anyone could say "I wish I had...." but if they REALLY think about it and try to realistically incorporate it into their life, it may not be as simple as it seems. I could say "Man, I wish I had ASL growing up" What does this mean? Would I have to go to a deaf school for this? Or would I have to go somewhere for a summer to learn ASL? Would a summer be enough? Would I stay at that deaf school or go to the same private school I went, but only with a terp? Would this mean I want to be able to talk in ASL with other people, so I would have to try to find deaf events to interact with other deaf people? I could go on.

Anyway, I don't really know if oral only is better for me, but my point is, that YOU don't either. You don't know for sure that I'd do better in a deaf school, ultimately. Life is too easily affected by the smallest things. Butterfly effect!!!
Click to expand...

You said you experienced hardship at school. Mind you - the hearing school is designed for hearing students. There were class movies with no captions. Teachers talking with their backs at you. School announcement broadcasting in loudspeakers. How can deaf person benefit from it? Although it is not deaf-friendly school, they can provide accommodation. But even with that - it's nothing comparable to what you would get from deaf school.

Can you imagine knowing EVERYTHING what's going on in class discussion? lectures? conversation among peers? Beside - they can teach you oral as well (remember BiBi program?). Can you imagine NOT struggling at deaf school? or being left out?
 
faire_jour said:
So we only care about classroom access, not the real world?
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Iam more concerned with educational access.

U keep saying that as if we support ASL only with no opportunity to oral training.

Again, iam going to say this for the millionth time, many of us support giving BOTH not one or the other so your arguement is moot.

Tell that to someone who supports ASL only without giving any child an opportunity to develop oral skills. Iam not the person.
 
shel90 said:
Daredevel7 said:
I dont agree with that view either..I have always been against with the percieved notation that kids from private schools/upper class having more opportunities than those who are from poor or middle class families.
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Are you saying that you believe this actually happens (private schools/upper class having more opportunities) or not? I believe it happens, but obviously it shouldn't at all.
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Daredevel7 said:
Are you saying that you believe this actually happens (private schools/upper class having more opportunities) or not? I believe it happens, but obviously it shouldn't at all.
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methinks you're getting that silly notion from movies or silly teen tv shows... :hmm:
 
shel90 said:
Iam more concerned with educational access.

U keep saying that as if we support ASL only with no opportunity to oral training.

Again, iam going to say this for the millionth time, many of us support giving BOTH not one or the other so your arguement is moot.

Tell that to someone who supports ASL only without giving any child an opportunity to develop oral skills. Iam not the person.
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If a child has full access in an educational environment, they are better prepared to interact with the hearing world outside of that environment. School is a training gound where kids learn the skills to succeed in the real world. The fact of the matter is, the classroom is a more controlled environment than the world at large. If a kid isn't getting full access in a controlled environment, they will get even less access in an uncontrolled one.

And, I am not the person, either.
 
faire_jour said:
So we only care about classroom access, not the real world?
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I am only gonna come in to drop a specific about this, in regards to CI vs nonverbal language in the real world.

What you learn in school, the degree and merits you receive reflects your outcome and places you in for the real world. Of course it doesn't really brace you per say, outside of internships, there isn't really much to correlate between the two unless the person is going to become a teacher or professor.

But, this is actually quite some simple statement. Your interactions in the real world - given on a small scale without much chance/luck factors involved; talk is cheap, as it doesn't have much to offer other than social variables. We could argue about how the socializing of a specific event may or will lead towards future opportunities, but lets not jump ahead of ourselves that far.

With that being said, the education learned will portray the most importance per anyone's initial career. It is the gears and works of any person's life, as we know now a vast majority of the world will see if you have some kind of educational history of some form once you start on that process of finding your seat "in the reality".

Thus, sometimes it may seem that one's educational properties will have a general impacting overall versus how well they can socialize or fit into the modern world. After all, modernization of jobs these days are allowing people to work from their homes and remotely.
 
Jiro said:
You said you experienced hardship at school. Mind you - the hearing school is designed for hearing students. There were class movies with no captions. Teachers talking with their backs at you. School announcement broadcasting in loudspeakers. How can deaf person benefit from it? Although it is not deaf-friendly school, they can provide accommodation. But even with that - it's nothing comparable to what you would get from deaf school.

Can you imagine knowing EVERYTHING what's going on in class discussion? lectures? conversation among peers? Beside - they can teach you oral as well (remember BiBi program?). Can you imagine NOT struggling at deaf school? or being left out?
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Obviously I am getting misinterpreted here. I don't recommend oral school for everyone. Just call me a weird person, but I liked my life, even though I had "hardships". Just because a deaf school makes understanding everything SO much easier doesn't necessarily mean that it would make my life so much better. My life was enriched going through what the average person doesn't. I honestly cannot imagine my life being "normal". Being in a deaf school would make me normal, and that's just not the kinda person I am. I agree that I think BiBi program (which, by the way, was not available in my area at the time) will give MOST deaf people with the HIGHEST probability of opportunities.
 
Jiro said:
methinks you're getting that silly notion from movies or silly teen tv shows... :hmm:
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Has it occurred to you that its a money thing? If one goes to a private school, that means that more likely, they can bring in more money. If one goes to a public school, they may not afford it, and they would have to give out more scholarships.

Are you saying that admissions is only focused on academic means (GPA, grades, essays, SAT scores) and COMPLETELY and UTTERLY blind to everything else?
 
Daredevel7 said:
Has it occurred to you that its a money thing? If one goes to a private school, that means that more likely, they can bring in more money. If one goes to a public school, they may not afford it, and they would have to give out more scholarships.

Are you saying that admissions is only focused on academic means (GPA, grades, essays, SAT scores) and COMPLETELY and UTTERLY blind to everything else?
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Yes, I think I recall hearing this back when I was trying to get into the UC's here in California. While applying to all UC's, including UCLA/UCBerkeley, I heard, had some people who could get in because of how much money they/their parents were willing to pay or donate to the school. Corruption feeds on people. Money is the root of all evil. Though, I am unaware if any new legislation or law was passed to prevent these type of entries these days.

California is really into educational properties as a state overall, as we have all these vast schools of both private and public institutions of organizational backgrounds here, it is the most competitive.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Has it occurred to you that its a money thing? If one goes to a private school, that means that more likely, they can bring in more money. If one goes to a public school, they may not afford it, and they would have to give out more scholarships.
Are you saying that admissions is only focused on academic means (GPA, grades, essays, SAT scores) and COMPLETELY and UTTERLY blind to everything else?
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That is what financial aid is for. School gets paid, either way.
 
shel90 said:
Iam more concerned with educational access.

U keep saying that as if we support ASL only with no opportunity to oral training.

Again, iam going to say this for the millionth time, many of us support giving BOTH not one or the other so your arguement is moot.

Tell that to someone who supports ASL only without giving any child an opportunity to develop oral skills. Iam not the person.
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The arguement will be moot when you show how to successful teach a child to use residual hearing in a voice off enviroment. If you don't use it, or expose a child to it, they will never learn, just like anything else.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Has it occurred to you that its a money thing? If one goes to a private school, that means that more likely, they can bring in more money. If one goes to a public school, they may not afford it, and they would have to give out more scholarships.
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that is a huge hindsight you have there. Don't you know that a quite significant portion of schools' fund are from alumni donations? Don't you know that most of scholarships are from donations as specified by alumni or donors? Beside - how do private school students bring in more money? Tuition price is same for every single student unless you're talking about some rich fathers donating million dollars for new facility.

Daredevel7 said:
Are you saying that admissions is only focused on academic means (GPA, grades, essays, SAT scores) and COMPLETELY and UTTERLY blind to everything else?
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no. that's what you imply. What I'm saying is that admissions look at everything else beside GPA & school name. They don't want a super-smart kid who did nothing but study unless a certain school is looking for that type... like Cooper Union.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Obviously I am getting misinterpreted here. I don't recommend oral school for everyone. Just call me a weird person, but I liked my life, even though I had "hardships". Just because a deaf school makes understanding everything SO much easier doesn't necessarily mean that it would make my life so much better. My life was enriched going through what the average person doesn't. I honestly cannot imagine my life being "normal". Being in a deaf school would make me normal, and that's just not the kinda person I am. I agree that I think BiBi program (which, by the way, was not available in my area at the time) will give MOST deaf people with the HIGHEST probability of opportunities.
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yes - just because you and i turned out to be ok (deafies attending hearing schools) don't mean it's same happy endings for MAJORITY. That's the point. It's not even a 50-50 chance for us. We just happened to be very very very lucky by a small stroke of luck and that's not even comforting thing to know. BiBi Program at deaf schools can give the majority a lot better than 50-50 chance.

Equal Opportunity, remember? Deafies will get same opportunity as Hearies. There ain't no equal opportunity for deafies at hearing school with oral approach. It's a constant struggle.
 
faire_jour said:
So we only care about classroom access, not the real world?
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My brother who has no oral skills had no problem driving from AZ to MD all alone back in May.

Many of my Deaf friends with no oral skills have backpacked thru Europe on their own without any major problems.


I think that beats being able to take orders at McDonald's which all of them have been able to do thanks to lieracy skills in which they developed AT schools where they had full access to language, curriculm, communication, and etc...
 
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