Change the future for a deaf child

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Daredevel7 said:
Didn't realize that noisy classroom is a staple for any child's education....

I'd love to see a deaf child in a "noisy" deaf classroom. See if the child understands everything.
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Classroom discussions are noisy arent they?


Really, if this is a joke to everyone, I really wish u can meet the numerous of kids who came to our program at ages 6, 7, 8, 9 or older not knowing much about anything and cant even make several comprehensible sentences in either languages and they dont have any conginitive disabilities cuz once they learned ASL, their language development took off but are delayed in developing literacy skills..wasting years of education.
 
shel90 said:
Classroom discussions are noisy arent they?


Really, if this is a joke to everyone, I really wish u can meet the numerous of kids who came to our program at ages 6, 7, 8, 9 or older not knowing much about anything and cant even make several comprehensible sentences in either languages and they dont have any conginitive disabilities cuz once they learned ASL, their language development took off but are delayed in developing literacy skills..wasting years of education.
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We all believe that happens. But there are kids who can succeed, they should be allowed to as well.

I think that oralist would hold up my daughter as a child who "could" have succeeded with spoken language if she had been given more chance to develop it. She is stuck at 18 month (speech) development for 3 years because she doesn't have the proper services and exposure because she is in an all signing enviroment.
 
faire_jour said:
We all believe that happens. But there are kids who can succeed, they should be allowed to as well.

I think that oralist would hold up my daughter as a child who "could" have succeeded with spoken language if she had been given more chance to develop it. She is stuck at 18 month (speech) development for 3 years because she doesn't have the proper services and exposure because she is in an all signing enviroment.
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My brother was in an oral only environment for the first 5 years of his life but wasnt able to develop oral skills and ended up with language delays in which he had to work hard for the rest of his childhood to overcome just like hundreds of other deaf people had to do.. is that ok so some deaf children can succeed with the oral only approach? I think that is a shame that people put speech first over literacy and language development.

U said that your daughter's literacy, academics and language level is on par for her age and u are upset that she hasnt developed speech skills yet?

In my eyes, education, language and literacy skills come first no matter what. If people want to put speech skills first, then best of luck to them.
 
shel90 said:
My brother was in an oral only environment for the first 5 years of his life but wasnt able to develop oral skills and ended up with language delays in which he had to work hard for the rest of his childhood to overcome just like hundreds of other deaf people had to do.. is that ok so some deaf children can succeed with the oral only approach? I think that is a shame that people put speech first over literacy and language development.
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I think it is a shame that you assume that people who value speech value nothing else.
 
faire_jour said:
I think it is a shame that you assume that people who value speech value nothing else.
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Never said nothing else...I said speech FIRST ...pls reread what I said. If I said speech and nothing else, then u have a valid point but I never said such thing. Pls do not twist my words...
 
I believe what I believe in based on the numerous of children and adults who have suffered from the oral only philosophy and my views will never change.

I have discussed this over and over again so if anyone wants to know why I believe the way I do, go into the archives in Deaf Education. I feel like a broken record now and I dont want to bore anyone else more about this topic. Thank you.
 
shel90 said:
Classroom discussions are noisy arent they?


Really, if this is a joke to everyone, I really wish u can meet the numerous of kids who came to our program at ages 6, 7, 8, 9 or older not knowing much about anything and cant even make several comprehensible sentences in either languages and they dont have any conginitive disabilities cuz once they learned ASL, their language development took off but are delayed in developing literacy skills..wasting years of education.
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It's not a joke to me, I personally have seen this language delay also. You place a LOT of importance in timely language development. As for me? I only care about the RESULTS. If they come out of school confident in making a life for themselves, GREAT.
 
Daredevel7 said:
It's not a joke to me, I personally have seen this language delay also. You place a LOT of importance in timely language development. As for me? I only care about the RESULTS. If they come out of school confident in making a life for themselves, GREAT.
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Maybe it is cuz I am a teacher and I work with children on a daily basis.
 
Daredevel7 said:
That's good. Do you see how most of them end up?
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Just started teaching 6 years ago and mostly have worked with young kids. I have one student reading 2 grade levels above her age appropriate level and she can use both languages without a problem at 10 years old. People tell me that by putting a child in a classroom using ASL that this would be impossible but I see the opposite.
 
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shel90 said:
Just started teaching 6 years ago and mostly have worked with young kids. I have one student reading 2 grade levels above her age appropriate level and she can use both languages without a problem at 10 years old. People tell me that by putting a child in a classroom using ASL that this would be impossible but I see the opposite.
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Yea. "People" suck. They also told my mom I could never make it past 4th grade in a mainstream school.

Gotta love how people make assumptions about you without even knowing you. :roll: (especially when they say it's "IMPOSSIBLE". wtf?!)
 
faire_jour said:
Talking in general terms about AD, but yes, I think that flip was saying that sort of thing.
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Just want to make it clear, that I am not talking about any majority.

I am talking about examples on why the effect of parents doing what they belive is best not allways is sufficent. What we need is parents that do what is right, not what they or some "experts" belive. I am not jealous on the choices parents of deaf children have to do, and I know many try more than many deaf people realize, while they follow their own heart at the same time.

Research at university level and personal stories from long time users is pointing in a direction. Federal standards, like Jiro suggested, is the way to go. It wont work overnight, but will be part of a long path, where deaf education are given space to mature, becoming something more than waste dumps in state deaf schools and mainstream programs providing social deserts.
 
shel90 said:
How much do we really know what they are recieving with their CIs especially in a noisy classroom full of hearing kids? Do they have equal access to the curriculm as their hearing counterparts without a visual language?
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i agree all deaf children (with or without ci's) should learn asl. i'm not disputing that. all i'm saying is that deaf children should also be given the opportunity to learn orally.
 
flip said:
Just want to make it clear, that I am not talking about any majority.

I am talking about examples on why the effect of parents doing what they belive is best not allways is sufficent. What we need is parents that do what is right, not what they or some "experts" belive. I am not jealous on the choices parents of deaf children have to do, and I know many try more than many deaf people realize, while they follow their own heart at the same time.

Research at university level and personal stories from long time users is pointing in a direction. Federal standards, like Jiro suggested, is the way to go. It wont work overnight, but will be part of a long path, where deaf education are given space to mature, becoming something more than waste dumps in state deaf schools and mainstream programs providing social deserts.[/QUOTE]

That is what I would love to see...tired of seing my program as the "last resort" if all else fails...it shouldnt have be that way.


Ohhh for the others, two of my friends who went to Deaf schools all of their lives are able to carry on conversations on the phone using spoken English despite being in an predominately ASL environment..
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Hear Again said:
i agree all deaf children (with or without ci's) should learn asl. i'm not disputing that. all i'm saying is that deaf children should also be given the opportunity to learn orally.
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And that is what I am supporting too...I have never once said no deaf child should be denied the opportunity to learn orally but I am against oralism as the only way to go for many deaf children and then later on, when it hasnt worked for them, resort to ASL. That is just not right, IMO.
 
shel90 said:
And that is what I am supporting too...I have never once said no deaf child should be denied the opportunity to learn orally but I am against oralism as the only way to go for many deaf children and then later on, when it hasnt worked for them, resort to ASL. That is just not right, IMO.
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i wholeheartedly agree.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Okay, if you're that confident. I'm sure there's Jillio's out there for TC programs. :D

Just saying that I think it's a nice idea but not convinced that practical application always works, especially in the long term run. Isn't it possible that BiBi is the new TC?
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It doesn't have anything to do with confidence. Parallel use of language keeps the two languages separate and complete in their use. What is confusing about sim-com is that it combines the two and what results in a less that adequate model of English, and a less than adequate model of ASL. It is not a correct model of any language.

But,hey, you don't have to take my word for it. Ask the linguists and the cognitive psychologists, as well as the developmental psychologists.

Possible, but not likely.
 
jillio said:
It doesn't have anything to do with confidence. Parallel use of language keeps the two languages separate and complete in their use. What is confusing about sim-com is that it combines the two and what results in a less that adequate model of English, and a less than adequate model of ASL. It is not a correct model of any language.

But,hey, you don't have to take my word for it. Ask the linguists and the cognitive psychologists, as well as the developmental psychologists.

Possible, but not likely.
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It was from my linguistics classes that I learned about these kinds of issues in Deaf education regarding language...it was an eye opener.
 
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