Change the future for a deaf child

[faire_jour]

There's a huge difference between the two. My parents encouraged me to learn music but never forced me to. If I made clear I didn't want to, they would have let me find another hobby. Likewise, parents can say "if you want to use your voice, go ahead. But if not that's okay too."

Right. And every single (reasonable) parent say that to their children. They give them the skills they need and when they are old enough to make the decision, they do.

 

[jillio]

You said that in TC, teachers "end up" Sim-comming which implies that they are not really following procedures, and basically just "give in" because sim-comming is easier? Just trying to see why wouldn't the "linguistically confusing environment" also apply for the BiBi programs? I understand that there's standard models for languages and they are kept separate. Easier said than done.

BiBi is not linguistically confusing because the languages are kept separate. The child receives an appropriate model of one language at a time, rather than innappropriate models of 2 languages mixed together. Sim comming is like a teacher using 2 words of Spanish and 2 words of English then 2 words of Spanish again and expecting the student to derive English meaning and context from the mix.

 

[jillio]

i advocate starting a child in an oral-only environment, seeing how that goes and whether or not it proves successful, teaching him/her sign.

I'm sorry, but that is exactly what is responsible for the fact that so many deaf children suffer language delays.

 

[shel90]

How? Can you tell me how they are so successful learning a language they have no (or at least very little) exposure to?

Maybe u can meet the MD deaf community and ask them.

 

[shel90]

You said that in TC, teachers "end up" Sim-comming which implies that they are not really following procedures, and basically just "give in" because sim-comming is easier? Just trying to see why wouldn't the "linguistically confusing environment" also apply for the BiBi programs? I understand that there's standard models for languages and they are kept separate. Easier said than done.

I am working in a BiBi program and I have had experience in all programs except for Cued Speech in the 10 plus years I have been in this profession and the BiBi is the most fair and successful of all. Research has also been showing the same thing too. I am able to teach using the BiBi method without a problem for the past 6 years.

 

[shel90]

i advocate starting a child in an oral-only environment, seeing how that goes and whether or not it proves successful, teaching him/her sign.

As a result of that, we got so many deaf kids referred to our program with language and literacy delays. How does that make it right for the children? Pls do tell..

 

[faire_jour]

Maybe u can meet the MD deaf community and ask them.

maybe this is not being considered a real question, but it is genuine. I am trying to figure out the best way to educate my child, and this would be helpful.
I am being completely honest when I say that the Deaf people I have come in contact with, it has no been that way. The ones who speak and understand speech, or can lipread were raised orally. The individuals who had Deaf families, and attended ASL schools do not use their voices. That being said, not all orally raised people still use their voices, but some do.

 

[Daredevel7]

BiBi is not linguistically confusing because the languages are kept separate. The child receives an appropriate model of one language at a time, rather than innappropriate models of 2 languages mixed together. Sim comming is like a teacher using 2 words of Spanish and 2 words of English then 2 words of Spanish again and expecting the student to derive English meaning and context from the mix.

I understand keeping them separate, but the confusion can come from using them parallel. Using your analogy, that's like having Math in Spanish and having Science in English on a typical school day. If the student is even just a bit stronger in Spanish, he's gonna constantly ask "What does that mean in Spanish? Ahhh I see." And ask himself why the hell is he learning Science in English when it's easier in Spanish for him?

Isn't there a difference in learning about subjects using 2 language methods at the same time and learning about subjects using one method, then learning the second language method FROM the first method?

 

[shel90]

maybe this is not being considered a real question, but it is genuine. I am trying to figure out the best way to educate my child, and this would be helpful.
I am being completely honest when I say that the Deaf people I have come in contact with, it has no been that way. The ones who speak and understand speech, or can lipread were raised orally. The individuals who had Deaf families, and attended ASL schools do not use their voices. That being said, not all orally raised people still use their voices, but some do.

I wish I had the answer but I have seen many deaf people who can use both regardless of which approach they were raised in. There are many deaf people who have been placed in oral only environment who werent able to develop good speech skills ...it all depends on each person and their innate ability to develop it and research has showed proof that ASL does not hinder the development of speech skills.

 

[jillio]

I understand keeping them separate, but the confusion can come from using them parallel. Using your analogy, that's like having Math in Spanish and having Science in English on a typical school day. If the student is even just a bit stronger in Spanish, he's gonna constantly ask "What does that mean in Spanish? Ahhh I see." And ask himself why the hell is he learning Science in English when it's easier in Spanish for him?

Isn't there a difference in learning about subjects using 2 language methods at the same time and learning about subjects using one method, then learning the second language method FROM the first method?

Parallel use does not confuse 2 separate linguistic systems into one transmission.

 

[shel90]

I understand keeping them separate, but the confusion can come from using them parallel. Using your analogy, that's like having Math in Spanish and having Science in English on a typical school day. If the student is even just a bit stronger in Spanish, he's gonna constantly ask "What does that mean in Spanish? Ahhh I see." And ask himself why the hell is he learning Science in English when it's easier in Spanish for him?

Isn't there a difference in learning about subjects using 2 language methods at the same time and learning about subjects using one method, then learning the second language method FROM the first method?

The child comes to school with a strong language foundation from ASL and can pass the readiness tests needed to enter elementary school as opposed as a deaf child who has practically little or no language at the age of 5 cuz he/she was denied full access to language and then English is taught to the children when they enter school.

How did I become fluent in English? Reading...

 

[faire_jour]

I wish I had the answer but I have seen many deaf people who can use both regardless of which approach they were raised in. There are many deaf people who have been placed in oral only environment who werent able to develop good speech skills ...it all depends on each person and their innate ability to develop it and research has showed proof that ASL does not hinder the development of speech skills.

I'm not saying that ASL hinders it. I am saying being in a placement without exposure to spoken language does.

 

[Hear Again]

As a result of that, we got so many deaf kids referred to our program with language and literacy delays. How does that make it right for the children? Pls do tell..

again, i'm referring to children who are successful using the oral approach. why doesn't anyone here understand that??? <very frustrated>

 

[shel90]

I'm not saying that ASL hinders it. I am saying being in a placement without exposure to spoken language does.

It didnt for many of my deaf friends and several of our students. I am not a speech therapist...my job is to educate these children and to ensure that all of them have full and appropriate access to the curriculm/lessons/classroom discussions. Something I never had growing up.

 

[shel90]

again, i'm referring to children who are successful using the oral approach. why doesn't anyone here understand that??? <very frustrated>

I was labeled "successful" with the oral approach but I was very isolated and restricted...

When they are small, nobody knows who will be "successful" or not and by the time they get older when it is easier to identify, those who werent successful ends up with language delays and poor literacy skills...cant go back in time and change it. That is why I am against that kind of practice.

 

[Hear Again]

I was labeled "successful" with the oral approach but I was very isolated and restricted...

When they are small, nobody knows who will be "successful" or not and by the time they get older when it is easier to identify, those who werent successful ends up with language delays and poor literacy skills...cant go back in time and change it. That is why I am against that kind of practice.

shel,

are you against an oral-only approach for children with ci's who are able to develop complete competency in oral language?

 

[Daredevel7]

Parallel use does not confuse 2 separate linguistic systems into one transmission.

Okay, if you're that confident. I'm sure there's Jillio's out there for TC programs.

Just saying that I think it's a nice idea but not convinced that practical application always works, especially in the long term run. Isn't it possible that BiBi is the new TC?

 

[shel90]

Okay, if you're that confident. I'm sure there's Jillio's out there for TC programs.

Just saying that I think it's a nice idea but not convinced that practical application always works, especially in the long term run. Isn't it possible that BiBi is the new TC?

It has been around since the 90s so no, it is not new.

 

[shel90]

shel,

are you against an oral-only approach for children with ci's who are able to develop complete competency in oral language?

How much do we really know what they are recieving with their CIs especially in a noisy classroom full of hearing kids? Do they have equal access to the curriculm as their hearing counterparts without a visual language?

 

[Daredevel7]

How much do we really know what they are recieving with their CIs especially in a noisy classroom full of hearing kids? Do they have equal access to the curriculm as their hearing counterparts without a visual language?

Didn't realize that noisy classroom is a staple for any child's education....

I'd love to see a deaf child in a "noisy" deaf classroom. See if the child understands everything.