CAPD terminology (Audi says I'm "hearing impaired.")

[jillio]

I'm going to miss listening to dog whistles...

 

[Beowulf]

From what I understand, many people with hearing loss have many of the same sorts of issues as me. As background noise increases, the ability to understand people diminishes rapidly. Telephones present a challenge, particularly when dealing with a person you don't know or a context you're unfamiliar with. And don't bother trying to get our attention using an auditory cue. We'll just sit there, oblivious to your attempts. So on and so forth.

I understand, however, that people with actual hearing loss as opposed to processing issues have additional problems that go beyond my problems.

Oh yes, indeed. I am constantly at a Jimi Hendrix concert. Arghhh.

 

[Bottesini]

From what I understand, many people with hearing loss have many of the same sorts of issues as me. As background noise increases, the ability to understand people diminishes rapidly. Telephones present a challenge, particularly when dealing with a person you don't know or a context you're unfamiliar with. And don't bother trying to get our attention using an auditory cue. We'll just sit there, oblivious to your attempts. So on and so forth.

I understand, however, that people with actual hearing loss as opposed to processing issues have additional problems that go beyond my problems.

EDIT: I should add that although we might have the same issues, presumably they are for different reasons. To be honest, I don't really understand all this stuff very well and am very pleased to be reading things like jillio and the others arguing about some of the underlying science, even if I don't understand all of it.

You should be a happy member here for years to come, then!

 

[deafskeptic]

I'm going to miss listening to dog whistles...

 

[kokonut]

I like this link. Sums it up nicely about the auditory pathways. The human body is an amazing thing!
The Ear & Auditory Pathways

 

[Jazzberry]

I just thought I would add some additional information regarding APD/CAPD that I've learned from multiple Audiologists over the 25 years.

<snip>

I find neurobiology fascinating and I wish I knew more about it. If I woke up tomorrow and was 18 again, I would explore going into that area.

So, if I can rephrase part of your post to make sure that I understand it -- the human brain is efficient and if it can’t use a piece of brain real estate for its original purpose, it has the capability to repurpose it.

Thanks for explaining why the neurological medical tests are not useful for older children and adults in diagnosing APD. I find the entire ear-brain interface fascinating and I really appreciate your sharing your knowledge about APD testing.

 

[Jazzberry]

Cool info. I feel like I just took a whole semester in one day

I found a "For dummies" version...since...ya know....I'm a dummy.

I highly doubt that!

But I do agree that this is cool info. I've read that the ear/brain functions and interfaces are among the most complicated ones in the human body -- and I believe it!

Auditory Nerve Definition

Great web site. I’m sort of familiar with the web master who put that site together. AFAICT, he is a very knowledgeable guy who has contributed a lot of time to the HH online community by building web sites like that and also by answering a lot of questions, clearly and knowledgeably, in a Yahoo group. He may still be doing so, I don’t have time to read all the web sites, Yahoo Groups and forums that I would like to.

My only beef with his online glossary is that he didn’t include footnotes. I know a lot of people think that footnotes should not be included in materials intended for laypeople, but I strongly disagree. I’m a citations fan and the guy has done a lot of good work, I just wish he had included the citations. I think his hard work would be more widely known if he had done so.

 

[Jazzberry]

Randomly, I actually do have a minor loss in a very high frequency. I haven't gotten my report from Dr. Paton yet, but she said that it was so high and so minor that I probably wouldn't have noticed it.

Interesting. I use to work with a man who was an opera singer and who use to work in the 2nd or 3rd tier circuits or the C and D houses. (Not being an opera buff, I’m not sure I expressed that correctly -- but hopefully the idea is coming across. ) When he started to loose his hearing he somehow managed to switch over to a numbers job in the corporate world which is how I got to know him.

He lost high frequencies in the range beyond which most people get their hearing tested at the average audiologist. Most babies can hear up to 20,000 Hz and most audiologists stop testing hearing around 8,000 Hz. He had to go out of his way to find a clinic that tested his hearing above 8,000 Hz. While he didn’t need to get hearing aids (there probably were no hearing aids manufactured to help him where he had hearing loss anyway) he decided to stop singing because of his hearing loss. He believed it affected his ability to sing well and he also believed it did affect how he heard in day to day life.

His story confirms my suspicions that most audiologists and oto-neurologists don’t give the proper credit to how much harmonics of the base sound wave contributes to the understanding of speech. In other words -- sure, most human speech occurs between just below 250 Hz and 5000, 6,000 Hz * but being able to hear the harmonics of the speech above 6,000 Hz helps understanding (and being able to hear well in noise).

Depending where your high frequency loss begins, and how much of a decibel loss it is and also if you have the inclination to experiment, perhaps augmenting your high frequencies would help you understand human speech in noise better?

--

Just another story, one of my audiologists told me that a researcher had done a study years ago that favorably correlated HH people’s ability to lip read with better hearing in the high frequencies that we are not normally tested in -- 8,000 Hz and beyond. That is, more HH people who had hearing in the high pitches above where we are normally tested in the audiologist’s sound booth lip read better than HH people who didn’t have hearing in those pitches. She forgot to send me the article and I could never find it on the web myself, but I do believe that she had read it. She was not the kind of person to make things up or get easily confused. But being a citations fan, I can't help but let ya'll know I never read the article myself.



* Note: See speech banana in middle of web page at this link.

 

[Jazzberry]

This is why I stated that the cochlea, and the cochlear nucleus were being confused. The claim was that the auditory cortex sent signals back to the cochlea. The cochlear nucleus is located in the brainstem. Therefore, once the stimulus has reached the brain, it does not descend back into the inner ear structure of the cochlea. It remains in the brain. It does not descend into any of the structures of the ear. However, the stimulus does ascend from the ear into the brain. Therefore, the cochlea is involved only in the ascent of stimulus.

That paragraph at the Open University’s web site was very terse. The last sentence in the paragraph did say that the cochlea was affected:

The olivocochlear bundle, which arises from the olivary complex, is involved in sharpening or otherwise modifying the analysis that is made in the cochlea.

I don’t think it was a typo, or that the author was confused.


There are many web sites and articles that support that description of how the hearing system works.

Dr. Joseph Santos-Sacchi and others have found, from their work in the lab, that that the OHCS (outer hair cells in the cochlea) function as both receptors ( i.e., sense organs) and effectors. (post #58).

It's true that I cannot think of any other structure in the human body that is known to operate as both a receptor and effector -- but it is already known that the hearing system is one of the more complicated ones in the human body.

I am not aware of any studies that have disputed Dr. Santos-Sachhi's and others findings about the OHCS. I cannot find any current dispute about this area from any other scientist or researcher.


ETA: I see in some of the posts that some people think I'm a guy? Nope, female here.

 

[Jazzberry]

:roll: Some people use more than the internet for information. You want the names of the numerous textbooks I used to gain this information? Will you actually obtain and read those textbooks? I think not. Trolling again.

I'm not interested in fighting but I think this was an overaction to someone just asking for a link.

The reason I'm posting is because from what I've seen this is the kind of post that will shut down the thread for EVERYONE.

If you don't want to provide a link, just don't. No biggie.

But I really would hate to see this thread shut down, I've learned a lot from it and it may still have some life left in it -- as long as it doesn't get shut down.

So I'm just respectfully requesting that posts focus on the information and not on other people writing posts as it looks like that is the only way a thread can stay open at this forum.

Please consider it, thank you.

ETA: I do enjoy most of your posts Jillio -- even during the few times I disagree with you. It's because I do enjoy your posts that I hope we can all figure out a way to keep this thread open.

I write slow -- this thread already has hours of my life invested in it!

Which reminds me that I'm going to walk away from the forum for now and do something besides stare at a computer screen. See you all again tomorrow or Monday.

 

[Beach girl]

Thanks very much for that last post, Jazzberry. Standing and applauding, here.

 

[jillio]

I find neurobiology fascinating and I wish I knew more about it. If I woke up tomorrow and was 18 again, I would explore going into that area.

So, if I can rephrase part of your post to make sure that I understand it -- the human brain is efficient and if it can’t use a piece of brain real estate for its original purpose, it has the capability to repurpose it.

Thanks for explaining why the neurological medical tests are not useful for older children and adults in diagnosing APD. I find the entire ear-brain interface fascinating and I really appreciate your sharing your knowledge about APD testing.

Plasticity. It is a lifelong phenomenon. I would suggest reading The Brain that Changes Itself, by Norman Doidge, MD.

 

[jillio]

]I'm not interested in fighting but I think this was an overaction to someone just asking for a link. [/B]The reason I'm posting is because from what I've seen this is the kind of post that will shut down the thread for EVERYONE.

If you don't want to provide a link, just don't. No biggie.

But I really would hate to see this thread shut down, I've learned a lot from it and it may still have some life left in it -- as long as it doesn't get shut down.

So I'm just respectfully requesting that posts focus on the information and not on other people writing posts as it looks like that is the only way a thread can stay open at this forum.

Please consider it, thank you.

ETA: I do enjoy most of your posts Jillio -- even during the few times I disagree with you. It's because I do enjoy your posts that I hope we can all figure out a way to keep this thread open.

I write slow -- this thread already has hours of my life invested in it!

Which reminds me that I'm going to walk away from the forum for now and do something besides stare at a computer screen. See you all again tomorrow or Monday.

Nor do I have any desire to fight. And I see no reason why this thread should not stay open as long as those participating are truly interested in discussing the topic and not here simply to play out personal grudges.

Perhaps you should go back for a year or two and review this particular poster's pattern of demanding links.

It isn't a matter of wanting or not wanting to provide a link. It is simply that I don't use internet sites to pull this stuff up. There is no link to provide for my memory. I have learned this stuff over nearly 20 years of formal education. That cannot be "linked". There is no logical reason for me to spend time searching out a link for what I already know. I am not using a site for reference, therefore, I have nothing to link.

 

[jillio]

Thanks very much for that last post, Jazzberry. Standing and applauding, here.

Do you have anything of substance to add to the topic, or are you just here to play cheerleader?

As I said, there is no reason for this thread to get shut down as long as those participating are interested in discussing the topic. It is those with alterior motives that generally get the arguments started.

 

[TXgolfer]

ETA: I see in some of the posts that some people think I'm a guy? Nope, female here.

I thought so.

 

[Anij]

I find neurobiology fascinating and I wish I knew more about it. If I woke up tomorrow and was 18 again, I would explore going into that area.

So, if I can rephrase part of your post to make sure that I understand it -- the human brain is efficient and if it can’t use a piece of brain real estate for its original purpose, it has the capability to repurpose it.

Thanks for explaining why the neurological medical tests are not useful for older children and adults in diagnosing APD. I find the entire ear-brain interface fascinating and I really appreciate your sharing your knowledge about APD testing.

Yes - that's (for practical purposes) correct.

One of the most profound examples of the degree of the brain's plasticity / ability to make new connections is seen in those who've had partial or total hemispherectomies (removing some or part of one side of the brain). This surgery is done for extreme seizure disorders as well as major brain injury. Over days, weeks, months and years many functions (effected by the removal) begin to be taken over by the remaining brain. Of course, a lot of the recovery and ability of the brain to make new connections has to do with the specific parts removed, amount removed and if the remaining brain is completely healthy etc. I find the plasticity of the brain especially in extremes to be utterly fascinating.

 

[jillio]

Yes - that's (for practical purposes) correct.

One of the most profound examples of the degree of the brain's plasticity / ability to make new connections is seen in those who've had partial or total hemispherectomies (removing some or part of one side of the brain). This surgery is done for extreme seizure disorders as well as major brain injury. Over days, weeks, months and years many functions (effected by the removal) begin to be taken over by the remaining brain. Of course, a lot of the recovery and ability of the brain to make new connections has to do with the specific parts removed, amount removed and if the remaining brain is completely healthy etc. I find the plasticity of the brain especially in extremes to be utterly fascinating.

You would enjoy the book I referred Jazzyberry to. There are some amazing case studies involving plasticity in it.

 

[Anij]

You would enjoy the book I referred Jazzyberry to. There are some amazing case studies involving plasticity in it.

Thanks Jillio - actually it sounds familiar. If it's more than a few years old, I might have already read it - I'll look in my home library and if it's not there take a look online.

 

[cmdrwhitewolf]

I know I'm late in joining the conversation. (Sorry about that!) But in answer to Joyce's question about describing it to others. I had it literally pounded into me by my Vocational Rehabilitation trainer that it is best to describe it as "having some hearing loss". Now I don't know if that helps, but I hope it does!

 

[joycem137]

I know I'm late in joining the conversation. (Sorry about that!) But in answer to Joyce's question about describing it to others. I had it literally pounded into me by my Vocational Rehabilitation trainer that it is best to describe it as "having some hearing loss". Now I don't know if that helps, but I hope it does!

You mean as opposed to describing it as "Hard of Hearing?" Why did they make that suggestion? What is the motivation to distinguish between APD and HoH? Not saying it's right or wrong, just asking, as it is different from what some of the posts here have been saying.