California Proposition Eight - Ban on Same-Sex Marriage

[dead money]

Why do you care who is in the traditional roles?

I dont. This is a country based on being free to have the right to have individualistic customs, traditions, having decision authority on how to raise your family, and how to conduct yourselves in a proper acceptable lawful way in society. Obviously theres thousands of different viewpoints about a lot of different topics, agendas and thats fine with me. A chick wants to marry a chick--then thats fine, whatever, i mean if thats what they want to do to make em happy then i say GO FOR IT. Doesnt mean i have to hold the belief that if someone asked me what the definition of a marriage is im not including that because i wont. I'm not telling my kids a marriage is when a guy marries a guy or a woman marries a woman. Im just gonna say "its when a man and woman decide to legally become a family as husband and wife" Yes my so called kids would be exposed to a homosexual union, relationships over the course of his/her life but im leaving it in their hands to decide what they think of it because im just gonna tell em how it is from my POV if they ever decide to ask.

 

[Byrdie714]

I dont. This is a country based on being free to have the right to have individualistic customs, traditions, having decision authority on how to raise your family, and how to conduct yourselves in a proper acceptable lawful way in society. Obviously theres thousands of different viewpoints about a lot of different topics, agendas and thats fine with me. A chick wants to marry a chick--then thats fine, whatever, i mean if thats what they want to do to make em happy then i say GO FOR IT. Doesnt mean i have to hold the belief that if someone asked me what the definition of a marriage is im not including that because i wont. I'm not telling my kids a marriage is when a guy marries a guy or a woman marries a woman. Im just gonna say "its when a man and woman decide to legally become a family as husband and wife" Yes my so called kids would be exposed to a homosexual union, relationships over the course of his/her life but im leaving it in their hands to decide what they think of it because im just gonna tell em how it is from my POV if they ever decide to ask.

What about same-sex households with kids? Shouldn't they be legally define as a family too and have the same protections define under the law?

Or is that just for heteros as it's their "special rights"?

 

[dead money]

What about same-sex households with kids? Shouldn't they be legally define as a family too and have the same protections define under the law?

Or is that just for heteros as it's their "special rights"?

As the childs guardian theyre entitled to all lawful protections, sure.

 

[Wokamuka]

For sake, I'm give the example as..... it's people's choice!

"People have spoken"

Yep. When homosexuals ask for equality, it is considered special rights. Now, marriage is a special right only for heterosexuals. The people have spoken clearly.

 

[sequoias]

Check out this link
Catholics, Mormons defend backing same-sex marriage ban - CNN.com

Oh my boy, Mormons from Utah has trip to CA to make Prop 8 passed.

Screw on Utah.

How is it possible? Utah residents are not registered to vote in California.

 

[jillio]

LOL

I have a question. When 2 gays/lesbians marry, whos the husband, whos the wife? Seriously id like to know. Personally i could care the hell less what 2 people want to do in their bedrooms, what sexual orientation they are or whatever, but i wouldnt even call it a marriage, but more of a union or something. And if people want to "reconize" it as a marriage, more power to them. I'll probaly never call it that because to me a marriage consists of a husband and a wife. Just my personal opinion.

Which ever one is comfortable fitting into that gender role. Gender roles are socially determined, not biologically determined. Many heterosexual marraiges are successful with a switch in gender roles where the female takes on the stereotypical male gender role and the male takes on the stereotypical female gender role. It ain't no big deal. It is for the couple to determine how to divide the balance of power within any relationship, heterosexual or homosexual. And to those outside the relationship, as long as it works for that particular couple, it is no one else's concern.

 

[Liza]

Why butt into others' private lives? I don't give a hoot if straight or gay peeps wanna get married or not. It should be a right for everyone, not a privilege. This definitely is a social issue, and should not be made a legal issue. I'm sure those lawyers will get this overturned fast.

 

[jillio]

Its not up to me? I'll call it whatever i damn well please lol. And again, if the govt legalizes it or if its what the people want, then yay! but i wont be popping corks off champagne or anything the following night. But i dont think personally im gonna use the words marriage unless in a professional manner somehow workwise id had to because im sorry... it doesnt register to me that way. 2 wives? 2 husbands? Yeah thats kind of odd. And im allowed to have an opinion.

How exactly does homosexual marraige have a negative effect on you and the personal choices you make for your life? I keep seeing people object to same sex unions, but I have yet to see a single heterosexual tell me exactly how same sex unions will have a negative impact on them, their ability to marry someone of the opposite sex, or in the way they choose to live their lives. Obviously, because they can't come up with a single, solitary reason.

The whole argument against same sex marraige has absolutely nothing to do with the possible negative effects of such, but of simply wanting to force another's choice and lifestyle on an entire group of people. If you want to take the moral high ground in this argument, you need to realize that the moral thing to do is understand that you are not so infallible and superior as to have the right to force your particular choices on anyone else, not do you have the right to deny basic and fundamental human rights of love and companionship, and all that goes with it, to anyone. Period.

Don't want to marry someone of the same sex, then don't do it. But just because you have chosen not to in no way gives you the right or the moral ground to force your choice on another. Inter-racial marraige was once forbidden based on the same judgemental and illogical "moral" grounds, as was inter-faith marriages in many religions. A.G. Bell attempted to outlaw marraige between two deaf individuals. Those so called "morally objectionable" restrictions were struck down years ago. And the same will eventually hold true for same sex marraiges. Move forward people.

 

[dead money]

>"If you want to take the moral high ground in this argument, you need to realize that the moral thing to do is understand that you are not so infallible and superior as to have the right to force your particular choices on anyone else, not do you have the right to deny basic and fundamental human rights of love and companionship, and all that goes with it, to anyone. Period."



Jillio, i never said i took it personally as some negative thing. Im not the outspoken lobbying citizen who decriminalizes and denounces gay marriage and taps people on the shoulder and telling them they must accept my point of view whatever it may be. So California didnt legalize it. Im not clipping headlines out of the newspaper and feeling warm and fuzzy inside. I had a bowl of cereal and went about my day. Had the people spoken otherwise, i would have STILL had my bowl of cereal and went on my way. I cant recall ever saying in this thread its immoral and disgusting and this and that. It just
doesnt define what i feel personally is the true meaning of the word "marriage". Now lets turn the tables here a little. Who is a gay person to tell ME i should accept their point of view? Just because what seems as a group of people who feel oppressed and were just denied "fundamental human rights" to legally get married doesnt automatically make it just and overwhemingly correct because they say so.

But so what? Either way i really dont care. I honestly can say that i wouldnt really ever consider marriage a legitimite one because my definaton of marrige differs from yours. That doesnt mean i hate gays, i hate gay relationships, blah blah fucking blah. Ive known gay people, gay couples, lesbians and lesbian couples over the years and i respect them just as much as any hetero people i know. For you to imply im preaching here is a falsehood because i dont. Im just searching for a little clarity.

 

[Foxrac]

How is it possible? Utah residents are not registered to vote in California.

I don't say that but I was means they are tripped to CA and pushes someone to voted yes to make passed.

According on link

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, based in Salt Lake City, Utah, carried out a vigorous campaign to get the proposition passed. Many Mormons traveled to California and made phone calls to Californians to elicit their backing.

 

[Byrdie714]

>"If you want to take the moral high ground in this argument, you need to realize that the moral thing to do is understand that you are not so infallible and superior as to have the right to force your particular choices on anyone else, not do you have the right to deny basic and fundamental human rights of love and companionship, and all that goes with it, to anyone. Period."



Jillio, i never said i took it personally as some negative thing. Im not the outspoken lobbying citizen who decriminalizes and denounces gay marriage and taps people on the shoulder and telling them they must accept my point of view whatever it may be. So California didnt legalize it. Im not clipping headlines out of the newspaper and feeling warm and fuzzy inside. I had a bowl of cereal and went about my day. Had the people spoken otherwise, i would have STILL had my bowl of cereal and went on my way. I cant recall ever saying in this thread its immoral and disgusting and this and that. It just
doesnt define what i feel personally is the true meaning of the word "marriage". Now lets turn the tables here a little. Who is a gay person to tell ME i should accept their point of view? Just because what seems as a group of people who feel oppressed and were just denied "fundamental human rights" to legally get married doesnt automatically make it just and overwhemingly correct because they say so.

But so what? Either way i really dont care. I honestly can say that i wouldnt really ever consider marriage a legitimite one because my definaton of marrige differs from yours. That doesnt mean i hate gays, i hate gay relationships, blah blah fucking blah. Ive known gay people, gay couples, lesbians and lesbian couples over the years and i respect them just as much as any hetero people i know. For you to imply im preaching here is a falsehood because i dont. Im just searching for a little clarity.

If you really don't care--why are you in here making a stink about it?

 

[Byrdie714]

As the childs guardian theyre entitled to all lawful protections, sure.

Then allow them to marry.

Simple as that.

 

[dead money]

If you really don't care--why are you in here making a stink about it?

When did i ever criticize it? Seriously? Please point that out, because im astounded here. Like i said im just trying to understand it more.

Then allow them to marry.

Simple as that.

its not up to me But even if was allowed to vote on it (i just moved to california not long ago) i probaly wouldnt vote on it at all.

 

[Byrdie714]

When did i ever criticize it? Seriously? Please point that out, because im astounded here. Like i said im just trying to understand it more.

its not up to me But even if was allowed to vote on it (i just moved to california not long ago) i probaly wouldnt vote on it at all.

I dont. This is a country based on being free to have the right to have individualistic customs, traditions, having decision authority on how to raise your family, and how to conduct yourselves in a proper acceptable lawful way in society. Obviously theres thousands of different viewpoints about a lot of different topics, agendas and thats fine with me. A chick wants to marry a chick--then thats fine, whatever, i mean if thats what they want to do to make em happy then i say GO FOR IT. Doesnt mean i have to hold the belief that if someone asked me what the definition of a marriage is im not including that because i wont. I'm not telling my kids a marriage is when a guy marries a guy or a woman marries a woman. Im just gonna say "its when a man and woman decide to legally become a family as husband and wife" Yes my so called kids would be exposed to a homosexual union, relationships over the course of his/her life but im leaving it in their hands to decide what they think of it because im just gonna tell em how it is from my POV if they ever decide to ask.

You already made your point clear. You are on the opposing side against gay marriage.

 

[dead money]

You already made your point clear. You are on the opposing side against gay marriage.

*sigh* I cant win. lol.

Never said im against two homosexual individuals who desire that though. You'll just be the nice gay couple next door, thats all.

 

[Byrdie714]

*sigh* I cant win. lol.

Never said im against two homosexual individuals who desire that though. You'll just be the nice gay couple next door, thats all.

And you'll want that as it's a known fact that gay couples boost property values....

 

[Endy]

If, gay people chose to marry, that's their choice. They are the ones who make it - their own lifestyle and I have my own. There's a plenty of others who vote marriage for the same sex and some don't.... as long as we don't bash each other's heads with a baseball bat.

There you go!! you say that gay people choose to marry. That's their choice.

Who banned the gay marriage??? Now, they cannot marry because People tell them "NO!" and "You cannot marry!" Now you know how gay people feel about that.

How can they change votes to let them to marry?

 

[Endy]

TWO ADULTS agree to marry each other. What business is it of anybody's? Why is it the government's business?

BINGO!! Well Said!! Now, then who dragged the Government into gay marriage business? That's what everybody telling Government to stay out. Well, who is crying like babies because it is not what they wanted. Government has to pamper those cryingbabies by passing DOMA. I thought they stayed out of one's private business. Again, who dragged the Government into this dilemma??

People create babies without being married every day of the week. What the heck does that have to do with anything?

Exact, my thoughts are alike as yours.

Oh no I'm sad that there are people in California who wanted to take away others' rights. Now, I am declaring, that in my residence and within range of sight of my person, for non-official purposes, I am not going to recognize any marriage as long as there are people who do not understand that gay and lesbian people are not sub-human.

I am wondering if this goes to the courts, would they use the 14th Amendment, section 1?

That's what everybody, even in gay/lesbian community says. They are preparing cases to appeal and use this admendent. You passed the US Constitution test.

If two adults want to be married, let them. It doesn't matter if both same sex or both opposite sex. If they want it (in the pursuit of liberty), let them.

Whooooa!! I am falling in love with you. Pursuit of Liberty. Exactly! Now, who took the happiness away from gay/lesbians? We let them! It does not bother me. I want them to be happy. Now, I cannot because of those people took the rights and happiness away from gay/lesbians.

 

[shel90]

Why butt into others' private lives? I don't give a hoot if straight or gay peeps wanna get married or not. It should be a right for everyone, not a privilege. This definitely is a social issue, and should not be made a legal issue. I'm sure those lawyers will get this overturned fast.

Yea, the idea that people feel they can take away other's rights to marry because it doesnt fit in their idea of how something should be is just plain wrong.

 

[Endy]

The best way of dealing with this problem is to let the religious institutions have the word marriage and use the words civil union for governmental functions for everybody. That way everybody can have civil unions and that religious organizations can determine who can get married within their religions. So we'd need a new word for the government function, unioned?

It won't work that way at all. Just like we in the 1950s and 1960s. We were the racists, created one unit restrooms for Whites Only and one unit restrooms for Colored Only. We were so terrible to colored people. Now, We changed that to allow them to use the same restroom.

Now, People in the United States are terrible to gay/lesbians. Your people created two different kind of marriages. Do you know it costs us more to create unnecessary so-called marriages. We have to make new forms to add "civil union" on every business. We will save a lot of money spending if we leave the word alone and let everybody marry the samewise.

Forms I speak of... Job application, Bank application, SS application, and many applications that you may have to fill out to get the services and benefits. The application will ask you whether you are married. Due to DOMA and other anti-gay marriage laws, When guys are civil-unionized and they cannot mark that word "married" on the applications. If gays want to check that box, married, YOu aren't allowed because it requires a marriage certification to prove. They will not issue the marriage certification for gays Therefore Gays will be always "single" in the eyes of Law, period.

What could the word, "Civil-unionized" help Gays in the eyes of the Public? No, it'd make gays feeling inferior or lesser than superior race, that would make 2nd citiziens. The word, marriage is BIG difference from the word, "Civil-Union." Word has a magic and power message to your mind. If we say marriage or married, the word would make everybody equally. If we say the words, Civil Union or civil-unionized. That'd be awkward to type or speak that word, you would feel the difference between marriage and civil unions. That's what exactly this is going on with bank officers, doctors, and insurance companies who handle the applications and approve the applicants before processing to next step. The word, Civil Union will not help the applicants to go move forward. That's what Civil Union is not helping at all. Marriage helps better in the applicants' process.