Best way to develop oral skills?

[shel90]

Frankly, I don't care about oral deaf education. I've only seen one oral deaf school and it was a MESS. It may not be like that for others, but that is not my concern. My concerns are the following:

If there are as many oral failures as you say, don't you think parents of oral failures tend to give up on oral skills once they learn ASL because they think "Oh they couldn't do it, so ASL is their only choice." If they didn't understand the L1 foundation thing, chances are they won't even bother to continue developing oral skills.

Another concern I have is a trend that I am seeing with deaf people who enter the real world after graduating school.... it seems like they feel like they should get a CI or are frustrated with getting jobs (although a large part of that is due to economy). Hence...

That's where the real world comes in.

As stated numerous times, deaf people with excellent oral or no oral skills but with poor literacy skills won't land good jobs for the obvious reason.


Now, for deaf people with no or good oral skills but excellent literacy skills, have the education, and maybe experience who don't land good paying jobs are most likely victims of discrimination.

However, I do know quite a few in the latter category who have good paying jobs whether they have good oral skills or not obviously had people who gave them the opportunities or did something to prove that they are capable.

I would rather have deaf people to have good literacy skills but if they don't, they r not going to have a good chance of landing good paying jobs/careers.


I have stated this numerous of times...research has proved that ASL doesn't hinder with the development of oral skills and I know several people who learned ASL first and then when they learned English, they also gained a better understnding of speech classes hence their ability to develop good oral skills. All of those whom I speak of went to Deaf schools all their lives.

 

[Daredevel7]

I hate to tell you, but being able to speak is not going to prevent discrimination in the job market.

Nope, it's not. So imagine how much more cruel the world will be without being able to speak.

 

[jillio]

Nope, it's not. So imagine how much more cruel the world will be without being able to speak.

I think that perhaps you are looking at things from an oralist perspective with this statement. I know many deaf who don't speak that don't consider the world to be any more cruel than the average Joe does.

 

[Babyblue]

First of all, she is a normal person, her ability to hear or not has nothing to do with it.

Second, I would never put her in a situation (educationally, because I can't control her socialization when she gets older) where people "assume she hears like a hearing person". That would be counterproductive. But, I will make sure she is involved with professionals who do know how well she can hear, and will help her make use it to the best of her ability.

And when she grows up? She will not be in a professional setting all her life. She will experience the real world one day.

I am not against you teaching your daughter to be the best she can be. But in reality. She will experience everything we are telling you in these threads. These threads and post, are coming mainly from personal experiences of deafs and HOH people, and a few Parents of Deaf and HOH people. Hard as it may be for you to understand that. It is the truth.

 

[AlleyCat]

I hate to tell you, but being able to speak is not going to prevent discrimination in the job market.

Couldn't agree more. Everyone tells me how well I speak, but the minute prospective employers find out (or realize the implications) that I'm deaf, I see deer-in-headlight eyes.

 

[Daredevel7]

It's funny. Not once have I advocated oralism in this thread. Only oral skills and yet people argued against me as if I was promoting oralism...

 

[faire_jour]

Nope, it's not. So imagine how much more cruel the world will be without being able to speak.

Just to be totally honest, if someone were going to hire someone and they had the choice between someone who conducts themselves easily in their native, spoken languge vs someone who needs and interpreter for ever meeting, can not use a standard telephone, and writes notes back and forth for communication....which do you think will get the job? Is it fair? No. Is it right? No. Does it happen every single day? Yes.

 

[loml]

It's funny. Not once have I advocated oralism in this thread. Only oral skills and yet people argued against me as if I was promoting oralism...

Daredevel7- And this surprises you?

 

[jillio]

Couldn't agree more. Everyone tells me how well I speak, but the minute prospective employers find out (or realize the implications) that I'm deaf, I see deer-in-headlight eyes.

Exactly. When my son was applying for part time jobs in high school, all they needed to see was ">>>>>School for the Deaf" in the space provided for high school for the app to end up in the trash.

 

[AlleyCat]

And, going back to my comment .. There shouldn't have to be implications. At least not from my standpoint. But there are from the employer's standpoint -- or at least their frame of mind.

 

[Daredevel7]

I think that perhaps you are looking at things from an oralist perspective with this statement. I know many deaf who don't speak that don't consider the world to be any more cruel than the average Joe does.

No one could ever possibly know that. No one knows how "cruel" a life is compared to others. That's like saying "I know many people who are happier than you."

 

[jillio]

It's funny. Not once have I advocated oralism in this thread. Only oral skills and yet people argued against me as if I was promoting oralism...

Perhaps you are unaware of the distinctions. Many of your posts have decidedly oralist sentiment. Which is understandable. That is your background. That is probably also the reason you don't recognize it.

 

[jillio]

And, going back to my comment .. There shouldn't have to be implications. At least not from my standpoint. But there are from the employer's standpoint -- or at least their frame of mind.

Absolutely there are. And if you think you are going to overcome those attitudes simply by developing understandable speech, you are fooling yourself.

 

[naisho]

Here's my take on what's going on so far.

Daredevel is being rational emphasizing the result of a deaf kid at a mature age, regarding the employment yazoo.
The ones against this are using thoughts of rationalization to counter it with popular logic.

Both have very strong points and neither one is exactly wrong, it's another region of gray that has no definite answer.

For everyone else who did not bother to catch up on the thread.. I only have one thing to say to you:

Hear again, it is a comic animation of a guy typing furiously at the keyboard.

Description of the image: That is how I feel not just me, but many others in here are feeling trying to re-explain what has already been discussed the first 5 pages of this thread.

 

[faire_jour]

It's funny. Not once have I advocated oralism in this thread. Only oral skills and yet people argued against me as if I was promoting oralism...

And I have been called an oralist, audist and told I am trying to set Deaf ed back 200 years, all on this site. When the reality is that I am a strong advocate for ASL from the start, bilingual education, and I have said, literally HUNDREDS of times that I intend to always have my daughter use ASL. I have admitted that ASL is the most accessable language for deaf/hoh kids and that I know that my daughter will need and use ASL everyday for the rest of her life.

Oh well, I dare note that there is a need for oral skills and that I believe CI's work great for many young children....boom "oralist".

 

[Daredevel7]

Perhaps you are unaware of the distinctions. Many of your posts have decidedly oralist sentiment. Which is understandable. That is your background. That is probably also the reason you don't recognize it.

The same could easily be said about you. You and Shel only focus on children's development, which is fantastic, but sometimes I wonder if you ever look at the big picture.

 

[jillio]

And I have been called an oralist, audist and told I am trying to set Deaf ed back 200 years, all on this site. When the reality is that I am a strong advocate for ASL from the start, bilingual education, and I have said, literally HUNDREDS of times that I intend to always have my daughter use ASL. I have admitted that ASL is the most accessable language for deaf/hoh kids and that I know that my daughter will need and use ASL everyday for the rest of her life.

Oh well, I dare note that there is a need for oral skills and that I believe CI's work great for many young children....boom "oralist".

You were told that you were attempting to set Deaf Ed back 200 years when you insisted that you had the right to demand AVT from a Bi-Bi program. That is exactly what happened at the Milan Conference.

 

[jillio]

The same could easily be said about you. You and Shel only focus on children's development, which is fantastic, but sometimes I wonder if you ever look at the big picture.

Developmental issues are the big picture. Speech is the immediate picture. You are failing to see the big picture due to the focus on speech.

 

[Daredevel7]

You were told that you were attempting to set Deaf Ed back 200 years when you insisted that you had the right to demand AVT from a Bi-Bi program. That is exactly what happened at the Milan Conference.

You hear that faire jour!? She was there! Shame on you!!!

 

[AlleyCat]

Naish, I've got to say your image was sort of ... icky ... graphic ... bloody. But I get your point. However, being on AD for the last few years that I have, the same subjects have been discussed to death over and over, just with different people.