Best way to develop oral skills?

[jillio]

??

You would do well to read the entire thread with numerous explanations rather than attempting to pull one post out of context to change the meaning of the discussion.

 

[faire_jour]

You would do well to read the entire thread with numerous explanations rather than attempting to pull one post out of context to change the meaning of the discussion.

You said that deaf children are taught oral skills not language. I said that it can be both. You said that they are taught to speak and that they do not acquire language naturally....caught up? So now I ask, is it impossible or not? You seem to have judged every oral deaf person on this site as "learning" not acquiring language, so, is it?

 

[jillio]

You said that deaf children are taught oral skills not language. I said that it can be both. You said that they are taught to speak and that they do not acquire language naturally....caught up? So now I ask, is it impossible or not? You seem to have judged every oral deaf person on this site as "learning" not acquiring language, so, is it?

Again, you are over generalizing. I have used a few specific examples, and that in no way applies as "every".

You are, as usual, confusing language acquisition with speaking. One is not a measure of the other. Until you actually realize that, there is no discussing the topic with you.

 

[faire_jour]

Again, you are over generalizing. I have used a few specific examples, and that in no way applies as "every".

You are, as usual, confusing language acquisition with speaking. One is not a measure of the other. Until you actually realize that, there is no discussing the topic with you.

I'm am not talking about speech, I'm talking about using language in complex ways, not learning to speak rote phrases. I am talking about going to the zoo and discussing rhinos and asking "Why do you think that rhinos need those horns? Do you think they are friendly with other animals or do they like to be left alone?" I am talking about language. Does the child say "rhinoceros" perfectly? No, but who cares?? It is about content and understanding, not articulation.

 

[jillio]

I'm am not talking about speech, I'm talking about using language in complex ways, not learning to speak rote phrases. I am talking about going to the zoo and discussing rhinos and asking "Why do you think that rhinos need those horns? Do you think they are friendly with other animals or do they like to be left alone?" I am talking about language. Does the child say "rhinoceros" perfectly? No, but who cares?? It is about content and understanding, not articulation.

Are you talking about discussing it in a language other than spoken English?

 

[faire_jour]

Are you talking about discussing it in a language other than spoken English?

No.

 

[jillio]

No.

Then you are not assessing language. You are assessing speech.

 

[faire_jour]

Then you are not assessing language. You are assessing speech.

I'm not focusing on the sounds coming out of her mouth. I am focusing on the concepts and ideas. And I'm not ASSESSING anything, I'm having a converstaion. But are you stating that a professional NOT access language on a child who uses spoken language,but can only assess speech?

 

[jillio]

I'm not focusing on the sounds coming out of her mouth. I am focusing on the concepts and ideas. And I'm not ASSESSING anything, I'm having a converstaion. But are you stating that a professional NOT access language on a child who uses spoken language,but can only assess speech?

No that isn't what I am saying at all. And if she is answering you in spoken language, you are assessing her ability to use speech. If you were focusing on the sounds and whether or not the words were pronounced properly, you would be focusing on articulation.

 

[faire_jour]

No that isn't what I am saying at all. And if she is answering you in spoken language, you are assessing her ability to use speech. If you were focusing on the sounds and whether or not the words were pronounced properly, you would be focusing on articulation.

So in ASL, everything is language, but in spoken language everything is speech? That doesn't make sense.

 

[jillio]

So in ASL, everything is language, but in spoken language everything is speech? That doesn't make sense.

Of course it doesn't make sense. No one but you has reached that conclusion or made such a statement.

 

[faire_jour]

Of course it doesn't make sense. No one but you has reached that conclusion or made such a statement.

I'm asking!! You said that everytime a child uses spoken language, that is assessing speech, so how do you assess language with spoken language? I assume they would still have to speak...but wait, if they open their mouth it becomes speech :roll:

 

[Bottesini]

I'm am not talking about speech, I'm talking about using language in complex ways, not learning to speak rote phrases. I am talking about going to the zoo and discussing rhinos and asking "Why do you think that rhinos need those horns? Do you think they are friendly with other animals or do they like to be left alone?" I am talking about language. Does the child say "rhinoceros" perfectly? No, but who cares?? It is about content and understanding, not articulation.

Even though you previously stated that I have never known success as an oral deaf person, if you don't care about the articulation I am capable of creative use of spoken English.

And I have greater hearing loss than your daughter before she got the CI.

And I didn't speak until I was five.

So if it would reassure you at all, it should be possible if you work hard.

My father spent at least a couple of hours a day with me at the dining table working on this.

 

[jillio]

I'm asking!! You said that everytime a child uses spoken language, that is assessing speech, so how do you assess language with spoken language? I assume they would still have to speak...but wait, if they open their mouth it becomes speech :roll:

No, that isn't what I am saying at all. Again, I would reccommend that you go back and read the posts in this thread as they are written, instead of simply looking for something that you think will poke a hole in my logic.

 

[faire_jour]

Even though you previously stated that I have never known success as an oral deaf person, if you don't care about the articulation I am capable of creative use of spoken English.

And I have greater hearing loss than your daughter before she got the CI.

And I didn't speak until I was five.

So if it would reassure you at all, it should be possible if you work hard.

My father spent at least a couple of hours a day with me at the dining table working on this.

I actually wanted to apologize for the way that post came out. I was angry and didn't proof read what I wrote. I meant merely "successful oral small d deaf person". I never meant to say that you are not successful, or even successfully oral, I meant you are not the combination of the three things.

 

[Bottesini]

I actually wanted to apologize for the way that post came out. I was angry and didn't proof read what I wrote. I meant merely "successful oral small d deaf person". I never meant to say that you are not successful, or even successfully oral, I meant you are not the combination of the three things.

That's okay. It is very nice of you to apologize. (I get mad too sometimes. )

 

[faire_jour]

No, that isn't what I am saying at all. Again, I would reccommend that you go back and read the posts in this thread as they are written, instead of simply looking for something that you think will poke a hole in my logic.

I just want a clear answer. I am not looking for a fight. I want the information and to me it feels like you completely disregard spoken language for any child with a hearing loss. That it is simply an exercise in audism and that they can be taught nothing more than to parrot simple phrases, and then the fluency can only be acheived in written form.

 

[jillio]

I just want a clear answer. I am not looking for a fight. I want the information and to me it feels like you completely disregard spoken language for any child with a hearing loss. That it is simply an exercise in audism and that they can be taught nothing more than to parrot simple phrases, and then the fluency can only be acheived in written form.

No, I do not disregard spoken language for any child with a hearing loss. You are quite mistaken on that. And no where did I ever say that a deaf individual could only achieve fluency in the written form.

The information has been posted in approximately the last 4 pages of this thread. In fact, we had quite a productive exchange going for a while. You are looking for definitive black and white answers, and you will never be able to find those. They do not exist. It is not either/or, yes/no, does/doesn't.

 

[faire_jour]

No, I do not disregard spoken language for any child with a hearing loss. You are quite mistaken on that. And no where did I ever say that a deaf individual could only achieve fluency in the written form.

The information has been posted in approximately the last 4 pages of this thread. In fact, we had quite a productive exchange going for a while. You are looking for definitive black and white answers, and you will never be able to find those. They do not exist. It is not either/or, yes/no, does/doesn't.

Then you need to not say "Deaf children can't"

 

[jillio]

Then you need to not say "Deaf children can't"

Please don't presume to tell me what I need to say or not need to say. Perhaps it is not what I have said, but the way in which you read it.