Best way to develop oral skills?

[faire_jour]

Please don't presume to tell me what I need to say or not need to say. Perhaps it is not what I have said, but the way in which you read it.

If there is not a true, final answer, than isn't it misleading to make a blanket statement? Wouldn't it more truthful to say "many" or "some" or even "the ones I know or work with" rather than just "Deaf kids can't..."

 

[jillio]

If there is not a true, final answer, than isn't it misleading to make a blanket statement? Wouldn't it more truthful to say "many" or "some" or even "the ones I know or work with" rather than just "Deaf kids can't..."

As I said, you need to go back and read all of the posts in context. No one else has had a problem understanding what I am talking about. Perhaps you are inserting something that is not there.

 

[faire_jour]

As I said, you need to go back and read all of the posts in context. No one else has had a problem understanding what I am talking about. Perhaps you are inserting something that is not there.

Or perhaps people aren't reading right now? Or they don't care enough to question you? Or they do believe that spoken language is useless? Or a million other reasons. All I know is that I ask for clarification and you dodge, or say "That isn't what I said" and then finally admit that there is no definite answer. If there is no one answer, there can not be one right way, and no blanket statements.

 

[Jiro]

Or perhaps people aren't reading right now? Or they don't care enough to question you? Or they do believe that spoken language is useless? Or a million other reasons. All I know is that I ask for clarification and you dodge, or say "That isn't what I said" and then finally admit that there is no definite answer. If there is no one answer, there can not be one right way, and no blanket statements.

let me try to understand your position. Are you telling me (us) that having an ability to speak is linked to intelligence such as reading and writing?

 

[jillio]

Or perhaps people aren't reading right now? Or they don't care enough to question you? Or they do believe that spoken language is useless? Or a million other reasons. All I know is that I ask for clarification and you dodge, or say "That isn't what I said" and then finally admit that there is no definite answer. If there is no one answer, there can not be one right way, and no blanket statements.

The fact of the matter is, faire jour, I have clarified over and over and over again. You simply aren't getting the answer you want. Perhaps someday, you will realize that you are getting the answer you need, but it doesn't look as if that will be tonight.

 

[faire_jour]

let me try to understand your position. Are you telling me (us) that having an ability to speak is linked to intelligence such as reading and writing?

Not even a little. My contention is that there are deaf children who can acquire fluency in spoken language as their first and native language or in conjunction with a signed language.

 

[jillio]

Not even a little. My contention is that there are deaf children who can acquire fluency in spoken language as their first and native language or in conjunction with a signed language.

Then please support that statement instead of arguing about what someone else may have said or not said.

 

[Babyblue]

I have moderate, to profound hearing loss.

I speak very well and sign very well. I grew up oral and later on learn ASL.

I have seen many Deaf People through out growing up that grew up with ASL speak VERY well!! Some speak better than I do.

So Jillio is right. Depending on the enviromental Factors is what helps a child to learn. Speaking and using ASL is a learned behavior. By learning and being taught or being around it.

 

[faire_jour]

Then please support that statement instead of arguing about what someone else may have said or not said.

I am just making a statement as a civilian who sees and works with deaf kids. He asked if I thought that speech = intellegence and I was simply answering no. I never claimed to have all the answers, unlike others.

 

[jillio]

I am just making a statement as a civilian who sees and works with deaf kids. He asked if I thought that speech = intellegence and I was simply answering no. I never claimed to have all the answers, unlike others.

In what capacity do you work with deaf children?

I haven't seen anyone who claims to have all the answers.

 

[faire_jour]

In what capacity do you work with deaf children?

I haven't seen anyone who claims to have all the answers.

I run the local branch of a national organazation for parents of deaf and hard of hearing children and their children. In that capacity I also have helped parents as an advocate in IEP meetings. Also, I volunteer at my daughter's bi-bi school as part of the oracy program and go in weekly to run a "listening time".

 

[Babyblue]

I run the local branch of a national organazation for parents of deaf and hard of hearing children and their children. In that capacity I also have helped parents as an advocate in IEP meetings. Also, I volunteer at my daughter's bi-bi school as part of the oracy program and go in weekly to run a "listening time".

How long have you done all of these things? Just Started when You child got her implants?

Or what?

 

[Jiro]

Not even a little. My contention is that there are deaf children who have acquire fluency in spoken language as their first language or in conjunction with a signed language.

OOOO-OK!! but remember my post #50 and related? You clarified that your comment "deaf children" is referring to those with residual hearings (more than 90 db loss). I think it's not really fair to call them "deaf children" because it is very misleading in attempt to bring it to your favor.

I do not consider myself as "deaf" because it is generally understood that the term "deaf" means 100% no sound. Yes I'm legally deaf but point is - I can hear with hearing aids and speak thus labeling myself as "deaf" would further confuse the general population. It is more accurate to label me as "hard-of-hearing" rather than "deaf". I think you should do same for clarity purpose.

Anyway.... your contention is already put to rest by post #88 to #145 and some following posts.

 

[jillio]

I run the local branch of a national organazation for parents of deaf and hard of hearing children and their children. In that capacity I also have helped parents as an advocate in IEP meetings. Also, I volunteer at my daughter's bi-bi school as part of the oracy program and go in weekly to run a "listening time".

So you got the listening time set up already? I'm impressed. That sure didn't take long.

What organization might that be? In other words, you function as a parent support? If you are advocating for these kids, shouldn't you be aware that Federal law supercedes state law, and that not providing services for a child until they are delayed is in violation of Federal law?

 

[shel90]

So by using Jiro's logic, I am not deaf if I can hear with my HAs.

Jillo, are u saying that deaf/hoh children can acquire any language whether it is their first or 2nd language in either the spoken or written form as long as they have acquire a strong first language?

 

[Jiro]

So by using Jiro's logic, I am not deaf if I can hear with my HAs.

that's just me. Notice the sentence in my post - I am LEGALLY deaf but when I describe myself to others, I say I am hard-of-hearing. Correct me if I'm wrong but there are 2 widely accepted terms to describe the degree of hearing damage - deaf and hard of hearing.

For example - when you hear the word blind, the thought is automatically processed in your head that the person is COMPLETELY blind. That's why it's not fair, IMO, for someone to make a blanket comment such as "there are blind children who have acquire visual acuity....." because it creates confusion thus the debate goes nowhere. It's best to be as specific as possible simply for the sake of argument.

Faire_Joule's contention is best applied to who? kids with CI? HA? congenitally deaf? late deaf? what what what???? CONFUSION!!!

 

[jillio]

So by using Jiro's logic, I am not deaf if I can hear with my HAs.

Jillo, are u saying that deaf/hoh children can acquire any language whether it is their first or 2nd language in either the spoken or written form as long as they have acquire a strong first language?

Basically, yes. If they acquire the L1, with all the features that go with acquisition, they can transfer that internalized knowledge to learning an L2, even though they cannot express everything they know about the L1.

 

[shel90]

Basically, yes. If they acquire the L1, with all the features that go with acquisition, they can transfer that internalized knowledge to learning an L2, even though they cannot express everything they know about the L1.

To guarantee that a deaf/hoh child to acquire their L1 naturally, they would need to be exposed to sign language, correct?

 

[jillio]

To guarantee that a deaf/hoh child to acquire their L1 naturally, they would need to be exposed to sign language, correct?

Correct. It is the only language that is 100% accessable to them. If they don't have 100% accessability, they miss the peripheral learning that takes place and that is a huge factor with language acquisition. Most of what is learned birth-3 about language is learned passively.

 

[deafskeptic]

I am just making a statement as a civilian who sees and works with deaf kids. He asked if I thought that speech = intellegence and I was simply answering no. I never claimed to have all the answers, unlike others.

Who claimed to have all the answers? I'm just curious.