Beatdown of transgendered in Baltimore, MD McDonalds

naisho said:
McDonald's Employee Took Credit For Filming Brutal Beating In Baltimore Fast Food Joint | The Smoking Gun

I saw this recently, have thought about some of it but noticed it wasn't here.

What do you think of the situation? There is a video at the site.
Have you ever been a victim of racial, ethical, or minority discrimination?
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That is so sad. I feel so bad for the transgendered woman. She has done nothing wrong and she doesn't deserve to be beaten up. There is so much hate around us and that is sad. Hate crimes makes me sad.

I hope the two girls who beat the transgendered woman will face judgment in court and sent to prison for what they did. It is a hate crime. And the guy who videotaped the beating is a sick guy but at least there is proof they can use in court against these two girls who was beating the transgendered woman. This is really sad. And to put it on Youtube? That is really sick. He seems proud of himself to be videotaping the beating and broadcasting it all over the internet. Shame on the two women and the guy and the other employees who doesn't seem to do anything about the beating. The transgendered woman is in my thoughts. :(
 
Bottesini said:
If that is a general question, I would have tried to beat them off with my white cane.

I understand that when I scream it is an odd and scary sound. I have scared a German Shepard away with it that was attacking me and the little Poodle.

If one person acts, and dramatically, sometimes others can be influenced.
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I am good at hurting people's ears with my screams/shrieks. I scream/shriek from a different place than where my voice comes from when I just speak. I have no idea what it sounds like, a hearing person would have to tell me what I sound like when I scream like that, I'd have to ask a hearing person to listen to me scream (if she or he is willing to) to tell me what it sounds like.
 
mizwytch said:
Oh yes...I think many have noticed the silence on the part of so-called black "leaders" about this issue. They'd been screaming for someone's head if it had been the other way around.

Is the victim alive? Anyone have any news as to whether or not the victim is going to be all right? I'm glad there were people at the restaurant protesting this insanity. I know some tranny's...and like anyone else some are nice people and some just plain suck. I've met both...but while a couple might have deserved a good smack for being obnoxious,,,I would never say any of them deserved getting beaten to the point of having a seizure or beaten to death.
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I know a bunch of transgendered people and I was in a relationship with an intersexed person many years ago.
 
jillio said:
I just finished reading, for about the 5th time, Victor Frankl's account of being a survivor of 4 concentration camps in Nazi Germany.

He is a psychiatrist that developed the theory of logotherapy based on his experiences. Amazing man.
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That's a new word for me. I had to google to look it up. Interesting. Thanks for the new word!
 
Bottesini said:
One of my father's best friends was about 15 when the war ended and he got out of the camp. His whole family dies.

He always wore his sleeves down because he was so embarrassed by the numbers on his arm.

He owned a kosher deli, and could never stop eating from having been starved. He weighed about 400 pounds.

Other friends were part of Schindler's Jews and were accountants. They also saved their daughter by stuffing her shoes with paper to make her taller and not an automatic selection for elimination.
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Hitler killed short people for being too short? Wow, that's new to me. Well not really new to me - he killed anybody who wasn't perfect in his eyes, so this shouldn't really be new to me. That's sad, though. The holocaust is one of the most horrible times in history. I hope it never happens again. :(
 
jillio said:
That is amazing! You know Frankl talks about the psychological reactions to being liberated from the camps, and one of them was that the prisoners all ate continuously for a long time after being liberated. He also talks about the lengths people would go to not to fall victim to the selection process. People on the edge of death doing everything they could do appear to be able to work, etc. It is surreal almost to read about it.
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I would like to read his book, but I am afraid it will trigger me badly and give me more holocaust nightmares, unfortunately. Ever since I watched one holocaust movie in Film 101 in college I haven't been able to watch any more holocaust movies anymore. It gave me nightmares. :( I am just very thankful I wasn't born in Europe at that time period.
 
:wave: Lucia

When I worked at a Jewish Community Center I met some survivors and a few of them had been interviewed for Steven Spielberg's new <at that time> project. We saw some of the initial interview tapes of survivor testimony after some of the interviewee's were done, and one person had some of the items from that time that she had discussed on the video - she brought it to a discussion at the Center for anyone interested - things like a Star, papers, pictures of her family - all of whom were killed - etc.

I recall in high school seeing some of the German propaganda films as well as the camp so-called- " discovery" <initial> footage. The degree to which Hitler and his followers went in terms of the sheer numbers and all the characteristics/populations he wanted to massacre is quite
mind-boggling....

as a young child I lived next door to a family - an elderly German woman, that woman's daughter and the daughter's husband. The husband had been a soldier in WW2 and was one of the Americans to first see the camps; the grandmother had been part of the resistance/partisan movement and was tortured by the Nazis. The man met and at some point married the daughter and brought both women back to the States afterward.
I would go over there and sit with the grandmother who I eventually just called "grandma" and try to listen to her and catch what I could and what she wanted to tell me about her experiences. She had some albums and other things from that time, but especially she had lots of stories. She was talk in a mixture of English and German and I just listened and looked at her things, made her cards...she gave me little trinkets on my birthday. I remember the Fourth of July was always very hard for her because of the fireworks. The daughter became a Spanish teacher. So English, Spanish and German languages were going around in that house, very interesting to me.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Guy A attacks a victim out of blind rage. Someone simply pissed him off.
Guy B has been planning to attack victim for MONTHS out of revenge. So he gets more time than Guy A.
Guy C hates black people. And he sees one and decides to attack him on the spot. According to your views, he should get the same time as Guy A.

To me, in theory, according to your views, ALL GUYS should have the same amount of time. After all, an attack is an attack, right?

If not, then why should Guy B have more time than the others? What's the point of different degrees for murder and assault?
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It's not my "theory;" it's the law.

There is a legal difference between Guy A's attack and Guy B's attack. Guy A didn't plan his attack, whereas Guy B did. Guy C's attack depends on whether or not he had planned to attack the next black person he saw, and decided on that particular one on the spot (that would be like Guy B's attack) or did his emotions suddenly overwhelm him on the spot (like Guy A)? The degree of premeditation makes a difference in the classification.
 
jillio said:
Bingo! If motive were not an issue, murders, or attacks, would not be classified in various ways, and the sentence would not be dependent upon that classification.
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They are classified by premeditation or lack of same (such as an emotional outburst, or reaction to another person's inflammatory remark or action).

It would appear that the reason for concern would be that it bothers some that a tranny...or any protected class falling under hate crimes...would get more consideration under the law than they themselves would. Sad.
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What happened to equal protection under the law?

Are you saying that if the victim of the McDonald's beating wasn't a tranny the perpetrators should get a lesser sentence for their attack?
 
Reba said:
It's not my "theory;" it's the law.

There is a legal difference between Guy A's attack and Guy B's attack. Guy A didn't plan his attack, whereas Guy B did. Guy C's attack depends on whether or not he had planned to attack the next black person he saw, and decided on that particular one on the spot (that would be like Guy B's attack) or did his emotions suddenly overwhelm him on the spot (like Guy A)? The degree of premeditation makes a difference in the classification.
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I know...

Forget about the law for a minute. I am talking about what YOU think should be done, not the law. You said that you didn't believe that "hate" crimes should have a higher sentence than a "regular" crime (which is what the law says), because you did not see the difference between those two. This is what I am questioning.

Do YOU believe that it is right to use the degree of premeditation to classify a crime? I know that you are a very very very strong law abiding citizen, but.. sometimes it's okay to question laws. After all, this is America. ;)
 
Daredevel7 said:
I know...

Forget about the law for a minute. I am talking about what YOU think should be done, not the law. You said that you didn't believe that "hate" crimes should have a higher sentence than a "regular" crime (which is what the law says), because you did not see the difference between those two. This is what I am questioning.
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The law is limited to punishing people for their actions, not their thoughts or feelings.

I think that is correct. That is my belief. Civil law should judge people's actions. God will judge people's hearts.

Do YOU believe that it is right to use the degree of premeditation to classify a crime? I know that you are a very very very strong law abiding citizen, but.. sometimes it's okay to question laws. After all, this is America. ;)
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Yes, I believe it is right to use premeditation as a degree of classification. There is a difference between a person plotting and planning a crime, and a person being momentarily, instantly, overwhelmed with emotion and adrenaline. Then, also, should factor in the result of the attack. How much pain and suffering was the result for the victim? How much damage was done? That's why courts allow victim impact statements.

In the McDonald's case, it would be hard to prove that the emotions of hate for trannys was in the hearts of the attackers but the guilt of the actual physical attack was clear. The two attackers would be found guilty. Then, the victim could give an impact statement. Within the statement, the victim would describe not just the physical pain suffered but also the emotional pain suffered during and since the attack. That's when the victim can explain that, as a tranny, since the attack, the victim is now more fearful of using public facilities (for example). That would show the judge and/or jury the short term and long term damage that resulted from the attack. That is more observable than what the attackers were thinking or feeling at the time of the assault. That's a better scale upon which to determine the sentence.

Don't forget, too, that victims can also bring civil suits for damages. The criminal trial isn't the whole thing. In the case of church burnings, as an example, the criminal trial can send the arsonist to prison for the action of burning down the church. The congregation can sue the arsonist for monetary compensation and punishment on top of that. If they can prove it was a conspiracy of others, such as encouragement by hate group leaders, then they can sue even deeper pockets.

These avenues are already available without special hate crimes legislation.
 
Reba said:
Yes, I believe it is right to use premeditation as a degree of classification. There is a difference between a person plotting and planning a crime, and a person being momentarily, instantly, overwhelmed with emotion and adrenaline. Then, also, should factor in the result of the attack. How much pain and suffering was the result for the victim? How much damage was done? That's why courts allow victim impact statements.

In the McDonald's case, it would be hard to prove that the emotions of hate for trannys was in the hearts of the attackers but the guilt of the actual physical attack was clear. The two attackers would be found guilty. Then, the victim could give an impact statement. Within the statement, the victim would describe not just the physical pain suffered but also the emotional pain suffered during and since the attack. That's when the victim can explain that, as a tranny, since the attack, the victim is now more fearful of using public facilities (for example). That would show the judge and/or jury the short term and long term damage that resulted from the attack. That is more observable than what the attackers were thinking or feeling at the time of the assault. That's a better scale upon which to determine the sentence.

Don't forget, too, that victims can also bring civil suits for damages. The criminal trial isn't the whole thing. In the case of church burnings, as an example, the criminal trial can send the arsonist to prison for the action of burning down the church. The congregation can sue the arsonist for monetary compensation and punishment on top of that. If they can prove it was a conspiracy of others, such as encouragement by hate group leaders, then they can sue even deeper pockets.

These avenues are already available without special hate crimes legislation.
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This sounds like you don't believe in higher punishment for hate crimes BECAUSE it's hard to prove what the attacker is feeling, whereas you can show evidence of premonition. Not because it isn't "fair" to minority groups.

Is this a correct assumption? Are you saying that this law (hate crime = more jail time) is not fair because what if the victim just HAPPENS to be black and the white attacker gets more time (as an example)?
 
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