Beatdown of transgendered in Baltimore, MD McDonalds

qawaearata said:
I understand that your intentions are well, but you are looking at the wrong aspect, the guilty are not getting less years than the hate crime perp, but the hate crime perp is getting more years. You should be just defending the increase in battery punishment not agree that a racist should be back on the streets faster. i think you are overlooking this, but i think i can fix this.

If one were to be targeted because they are deaf/hoh in this example. During these targeting, they would find out who was deaf/hoh and they would brutally beat them. essentially what your doing (and im pretty sure your not meaning to) is saying they should not go to jail as long, it should be equal as if a guy walked in on his wife being unfaithful and did the same bottley harm. If you have a law that only looks at the damage and nothing more, then you miss the motive. if someone targets you because your deaf and no other reason, that is unacceptable and that is essentially what Hitler did with jews/blacks. i know you would not defend any murder being equal to a murder from hitler..
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Bingo. Coming at things from the wrong door.
 
qawaearata said:
I understand that your intentions are well, but you are looking at the wrong aspect, the guilty are not getting less years than the hate crime perp, but the hate crime perp is getting more years. You should be just defending the increase in battery punishment not agree that a racist should be back on the streets faster. i think you are overlooking this, but i think i can fix this.

If one were to be targeted because they are deaf/hoh in this example. During these targeting, they would find out who was deaf/hoh and they would brutally beat them. essentially what your doing (and im pretty sure your not meaning to) is saying they should not go to jail as long, it should be equal as if a guy walked in on his wife being unfaithful and did the same bottley harm. If you have a law that only looks at the damage and nothing more, then you miss the motive. if someone targets you because your deaf and no other reason, that is unacceptable and that is essentially what Hitler did with jews/blacks. i know you would not defend any murder being equal to a murder from hitler..
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Hitler did it to the Deaf/deaf too. History, psychology, and incidentally, spelling, are all very important.
 
qawaearata said:
I understand that your intentions are well, but you are looking at the wrong aspect, the guilty are not getting less years than the hate crime perp, but the hate crime perp is getting more years. You should be just defending the increase in battery punishment not agree that a racist should be back on the streets faster. i think you are overlooking this, but i think i can fix this.
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I didn't say that a racist should get out on the streets faster than a common thug. I say they should each serve the same amount of time for the same amount of damage done to the victim.

If one were to be targeted because they are deaf/hoh in this example. During these targeting, they would find out who was deaf/hoh and they would brutally beat them. essentially what your doing (and im pretty sure your not meaning to) is saying they should not go to jail as long, it should be equal as if a guy walked in on his wife being unfaithful and did the same bottley harm. If you have a law that only looks at the damage and nothing more, then you miss the motive. if someone targets you because your deaf and no other reason, that is unacceptable and that is essentially what Hitler did with jews/blacks. i know you would not defend any murder being equal to a murder from hitler..
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Of course targeting specific people for attack is unacceptable. I never said that it was acceptable. Hurting and killing innocent victims is always unacceptable, whether they belong to a specific group or not.

The henchmen of Hitler got tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity, under international law. (Hitler himself evaded trial and punishment by cowardly killing himself before he could be captured.)

A murder doesn't have to equal in scale to what Hitler did in order to be punished to the full extent of the law in America. The heinous murder of one innocent victim is worthy of full prosecution regardless of the victim's identity.
 
Bottesini said:
Hitler did it to the Deaf/deaf too. History, psychology, and incidentally, spelling, are all very important.
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Yes, he did. My son has often said he would have ended up in one of the ovens...Deaf and Jewish. And, to be honest, Hitler (although on a much larger scale) taught us exactly why hate crimes are to be avoided at all costs. Anytime one is attacked or brutalized due to a superficial characteristic, the same thinking as Hitler engaged in is present. Should we punish hate crimes with their own set of standards? Of course we should.
 
jillio said:
Yes, he did. My son has often said he would have ended up in one of the ovens...Deaf and Jewish. And, to be honest, Hitler (although on a much larger scale) taught us exactly why hate crimes are to be avoided at all costs. Anytime one is attacked or brutalized due to a superficial characteristic, the same thinking as Hitler engaged in is present. Should we punish hate crimes with their own set of standards? Of course we should.
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Yes I agree, having grown up knowing several survivors of one of the most massive hate crimes.
 
Bottesini said:
Yes I agree, having grown up knowing several survivors of one of the most massive hate crimes.
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I just finished reading, for about the 5th time, Victor Frankl's account of being a survivor of 4 concentration camps in Nazi Germany.

He is a psychiatrist that developed the theory of logotherapy based on his experiences. Amazing man.
 
jillio said:
I just finished reading, for about the 5th time, Victor Frankl's account of being a survivor of 4 concentration camps in Nazi Germany.

He is a psychiatrist that developed the theory of logotherapy based on his experiences. Amazing man.
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One of my father's best friends was about 15 when the war ended and he got out of the camp. His whole family dies.

He always wore his sleeves down because he was so embarrassed by the numbers on his arm.

He owned a kosher deli, and could never stop eating from having been starved. He weighed about 400 pounds.

Other friends were part of Schindler's Jews and were accountants. They also saved their daughter by stuffing her shoes with paper to make her taller and not an automatic selection for elimination.
 
jillio said:
I just finished reading, for about the 5th time, Victor Frankl's account of being a survivor of 4 concentration camps in Nazi Germany.

He is a psychiatrist that developed the theory of logotherapy based on his experiences. Amazing man.
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Five times? Wow. I am sure that every time you finish it, you have added to your perspective.
 
Bottesini said:
One of my father's best friends was about 15 when the war ended and he got out of the camp. His whole family dies.

He always wore his sleeves down because he was so embarrassed by the numbers on his arm.

He owned a kosher deli, and could never stop eating from having been starved. He weighed about 400 pounds.

Other friends were part of Schindler's Jews and were accountants. They also saved their daughter by stuffing her shoes with paper to make her taller and not an automatic selection for elimination.
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That is amazing! You know Frankl talks about the psychological reactions to being liberated from the camps, and one of them was that the prisoners all ate continuously for a long time after being liberated. He also talks about the lengths people would go to not to fall victim to the selection process. People on the edge of death doing everything they could do appear to be able to work, etc. It is surreal almost to read about it.
 
Glenn said:
Five times? Wow. I am sure that every time you finish it, you have added to your perspective.
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Yes, it does. That is why I go back to it every so often. It is a book that is so full of wisdom.
 
jillio said:
Yes, it does. That is why I go back to it every so often. It is a book that is so full of wisdom.
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Yes, I am sure it is.

I think that some members on this board could benefit from re-reading things on this board in certain threads. Complex topics often merit a re-read because skimming does not do anyone any good. :hmm:
 
Glenn said:
Yes, I am sure it is.

I think that some members on this board could benefit from re-reading things on this board in certain threads. Complex topics often merit a re-read because skimming does not do anyone any good. :hmm:
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I agree.
 
jillio said:
That is amazing! You know Frankl talks about the psychological reactions to being liberated from the camps, and one of them was that the prisoners all ate continuously for a long time after being liberated. He also talks about the lengths people would go to not to fall victim to the selection process. People on the edge of death doing everything they could do appear to be able to work, etc. It is surreal almost to read about it.
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This sounds interesting - where can I get a copy of this book?
 
jillio said:
I just finished reading, for about the 5th time, Victor Frankl's account of being a survivor of 4 concentration camps in Nazi Germany.

He is a psychiatrist that developed the theory of logotherapy based on his experiences. Amazing man.
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well, it is the summer, now so i think im going to add it to my list too, just to add my hearing school let me know they killed blacks/Jewish. I apologize for being ignorant and not learning of the deaf as well, thank you for enlightening me though :)
 
Bottesini said:
Hitler did it to the Deaf/deaf too. History, psychology, and incidentally, spelling, are all very important.
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Yes. I remember that many years ago I was at a Deaf event and someone pointed out a 80 years old Deaf man with numbers tattoo'd on his arm and told me that he was was in those camps. Someone asked if he was Jewish and the answer was no he was just Deaf.
 
Dixie said:
This sounds interesting - where can I get a copy of this book?
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The title is Man's Search for Meaning. I'd say you could get it online at Amazon (where I get many of my books) or any well stocked bookstore. You will probably find it in the psychology or philosophy sections.
 
qawaearata said:
well, it is the summer, now so i think im going to add it to my list too, just to add my hearing school let me know they killed blacks/Jewish. I apologize for being ignorant and not learning of the deaf as well, thank you for enlightening me though :)
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Never apologize for not knowing. Just use it as an opportunity to learn. I hope you enjoy the book.

The only shame in ignorance is in choosing to remain ignorant when you have a chance to change it.
 
jillio said:
Never apologize for not knowing. Just use it as an opportunity to learn. I hope you enjoy the book.

The only shame in ignorance is in choosing to remain ignorant when you have a chance to change it.
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You have no idea how much i LIVE by the bolded statement, when people just turn there cheek and pretend like it isnt going on!!!!
 
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