Arizona governor signs immigration bill

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Jiro said:
that's what conversation is for. Quote your rights and laws... you'll be fine as long as you are courteous.

Both are same thing. It's about legality and rights. Some cops do not know better.

:lol: and money too in case you have to hire a lawyer.... and pay for your bail.

that's true but realistically - there's not much you can do about it unless you have some friends in higher place or media.

Yep and same for cop if they act like we are the criminals up to something no good. well.... I believe the cops are the one who should take initiative in establishing good community relationship since they are the one with gun and handcuff... especially because of a long history of police abuses so we are naturally and understandably fearful of them.

Reba - I'm not being some hippie with silly "Fight The Power" agenda. I'm just being a law-abiding American citizen with the rights afforded by the Constitution and state & federal laws. If I were in the state where the law says I'm required to prove my immigration status to police officer even though I am an American citizen - then I will comply even if I disagree with the law and even if I believe the law is unconstitutional. Law's the law. The street is not a place to debate with cop whether or not the law is unconstitutional or not.

You know that I have several cop/lawyer friends in NY-NJ. I know the limit. I don't intend to be a smart-ass jerk to "troll/bait/incite" them into committing wrong-doing against me. I hate wise-ass people like that. Remember the "Don't-Taze-Me-Bro" guy or anybody who filmed themselves with intention to confront the cops like cops parking on fire lane? :roll:

Be cool. Be smart. Know your rights. Talk with the cop, not argue with the cop. It's not illegal to stand your ground against police to a reasonable degree. Police officer is human being. They do make mistake. They do not always know the fine-print laws. If the conversation is going nowhere - then you can either choose to comply or get arrested. Up to you.
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Glad to know that you're not a hippie. :lol:
 
Jiro said:
you are correct that I do not get to determine if it's a probable cause or not but I can try to get officer to tell me what the probable cause is. This is where you have to use your best judgment when responding to officer. It depends on the scenario. On most cases - you can really know if there is a probable cause or not. It's kinda obvious. Again - use your best judgment.

However - if I were in the vicinity of crime, then yes I will have to comply as per Terry Stop law.

The officers can have a "consensual conversation" - a casual conversation with me when in their mind that they're suspecting me of being involved with the crime but lack specific facts to produce a probable cause. The officer can kindly ask me for my ID without probable cause and it is up to me to show ID or not. By law - I do not have to comply with their request. "Am I free to go?" is all I can ask.

I'm not a firm believer of "Nothing To Hide, Nothing To Fear" doctrine (aka "if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about."). I don't believe in police state. Orwellian state. fascist state. That's why I live in America, not England or Germany. France requires people to show ID when requested with or without probable cause.


if you're in a vehicle - you are required by law to provide ID upon request. no matter what. That's the primary difference. If you are walking on sidewalk, minding your own business - you are not required to provide ID upon request if there's no probable cause.


Because of Camillo and Downing - the officers will smarten up and there will be less victims of police harassment in the future time. In fact - Camillo and Downing cases were bolstered by previous cases. Not all officers are aware of it so there's nothing we can do except to stand up for your rights - either on street or at court.


I don't think it's nonsense when it comes to Civil Rights violation. I hope the cop would play it cool and not be stupid enough to get a mark in his jacket (a lingo for bad record in his police file)... which would lead to questionable credibility issue for his pending arrest cases.

I should not be jailed for failing to produce ID if there's no probable cause like Downing and Camillo but hey... if the officer wanna go down that path, let's go. I have nothing to lose but the officer does - he'll risk his credibility in his jacket and possibly his job.
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I'm not too concerned about the USA becoming a Communist state given the anti Communist fervor among Americans but I think the possibility of the USA becoming Facist like state or a Plutocracy or even an oligarchy is very real.
 
deafskeptic said:
I'm not too concerned about the USA becoming a Communist state given the anti Communist fervor among Americans but I think the possibility of the USA becoming Facist like state or a Plutocracy or even an oligarchy is very real.
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the day USA becomes fascist/plutocracist is the day we American citizens (militia) will fight back with the flag and Constitution at our side.
 
Reba said:
I remember the non-violent protests of Martin Luther King Jr. and other civil rights leaders of the 1960's. Even when there was violence it was usually from "the other side" or even law enforcement agencies themselves. The civil rights movement won the hearts and support of more Americans by NOT being violent or acting like jerks to the police. When the police did act like jerks, they were exposed to the public, and that's how public opinion turned more and more in favor of the civil rights movement.
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And now we're seeing the total opposite. Protesters acting like jerks while the cops get harassed and pelted upon.
 
Reba said:
I remember the non-violent protests of Martin Luther King Jr. and other civil rights leaders of the 1960's. Even when there was violence it was usually from "the other side" or even law enforcement agencies themselves. The civil rights movement won the hearts and support of more Americans by NOT being violent or acting like jerks to the police. When the police did act like jerks, they were exposed to the public, and that's how public opinion turned more and more in favor of the civil rights movement.
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What about the Black Panther Party? I know it's far to the left.
 
Reba as a hippie? I can't see it. :laugh2:
 
Wirelessly posted

Jiro said:
deafskeptic said:
I'm not too concerned about the USA becoming a Communist state given the anti Communist fervor among Americans but I think the possibility of the USA becoming Facist like state or a Plutocracy or even an oligarchy is very real.
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the day USA becomes fascist/plutocracist is the day we American citizens (militia) will fight back with the flag and Constitution at our side.
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You're sure?

Corporatism stinks.
 
I'm ok with National Guards in US-Mexico border, at least if they have similar training level as border patrol does and it is better than AZ immigrant bill that requiring police to stop and ask everyone for documentations.
 
How do you know if there werent any riots from the Tea Baggers?
 
shel90 said:
How do you know if there werent any riots from the Tea Baggers?
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Simple. The MSM would've gone nuts over that story. It'd be on CNN, MSNBC, CBS, and every lefty blog.

So, where is it?
 
shel90 said:
How do you know if there werent any riots from the Tea Baggers?
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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFeUhSlHiUQ]YouTube - SEIU Attack Black Tea Party Patriot & Tampa Town DNC Slaps Man[/ame]


riot at tea party rally
 
kokonut said:
Thanks. That just proves the point of who is doing the attacking. SEIU attacks a Tea Party protester, a black man no less.[/QUOTE]

And you wonder why people call you racist?
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Reba said:
They are not the same.

Behavior profiling transcends all races, sexes, and religions. A person behaving suspiciously, regardless of race, sex or religion requires investigation.
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People are going to stopped for being Hispanic! They could going to work or bring their kids to school and be stopped! Hispanics been warned by the Mexcian government to be careful about taking a trip to AZ for a vaction!
People could be on a vaction and get stopped! I know I would not want that to happen to me if I was in another country!
 
shel90 said:
kokonut said:
Thanks. That just proves the point of who is doing the attacking. SEIU attacks a Tea Party protester, a black man no less.[/QUOTE]

And you wonder why people call you racist?
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Actually, had it been the other way around it'd be all over the news. But in this instance, it wasn't and was mostly kept under wraps.

As for the news, they do that all the time when it comes it.

Google
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