Arizona governor signs immigration bill

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jan Brewer.. how did this woman get elected as Governor anyway?

just found out - Jan Brewer SUCCEEDED Governor Janet Napolitano when Napolitano resigned to become Secretary of Homeland Security. :ty: foxrac for bringing up attention to me.

No wonder.... what an incompetent person for the job. :roll: November election's coming up soon and I don't think she's got a shot.
 
How did it fail? If he simply showed his ID the first time he was asked, that would have been the end of it.
Well - I don't know about you but I don't believe I should automatically comply with LEO's request like an obedient lamb. If there is no probable cause, then I can refuse to show my identification due to Fourth and Fifth Amendments. If officer wants to arrest me - that's fine. That's what court is for and I'll be reaping in settlement $$$$$ in the end.

In short - Behavior Profiling failed because Downing is not a terrorist. The officer made a wrong "Behavioral Profiling" assessment and wrong judgment. As I showed you before - based on American's Behavioral Profiling training for police officers - it is clear that this training is inadequate and short so the error margin rate is high. Mind you - Downing is a Harvard-educated lawyer. Sounds familiar, right? Crowley and Gates - the one where President Obama said "Officer Crowley acted stupidly". BTW - (link) Crowley arrested Gates for disorderly conduct because of verbal abuse. The Massachusetts court has ruled that being verbally-abusive to officer is not a ground for disorderly conduct charge. There were several other legal cases relating to Gates' incident where Massachusetts court has stated that the person berating an officer is not a ground for disorderly conduct. but I digress.....

All kinds of people get stopped at airports for all kinds of reasons, and are requested to show their ID's and tickets. Sometimes there seems to be no rhyme or reason. But it's not always a civil rights issue.

My neighbor flies fairly often, and he gets "picked on" every time at the airport. He's white, 93 years old, a little over 5 ft. tall, about 85 lbs., soft spoken, and his last name is French. So?
because they "have to" by covering Caucasian people just to avoid legal ramification (aka racial profiling) and Justice Department investigation.

Did the article say that no other passengers were approached by security for doing the same thing that Downing did? Out of "thousands of fliers", he was the only one asked to show his ID?

Or was he the only one to make a stink about it?
Wondering how many people had incidents like Downing :hmm:

It is ironic - King Downing is the National Coordinator of the ACLU's Campaign Against Racial Profiling and he was in town to attend a meeting on racial profiling. Mind you - Boston has a very very very long & deep history of police corruption and police abuse. Here's detail of Downing's legal case - link

On the morning of October 16, 2003, Downing arrived at Logan on an Alaska Airlines overnight flight from the west coast. He was sporting a short beard, and had with him a brief case and a carry-on, which had been strapped to a portable luggage carrier. He was wearing casual slacks, a button-down striped shirt with a narrow collar, and his shirt was worn loose over his pants.

After deplaning in Boston, Downing left the gate area and stopped to make a phone call from a public telephone on the upper level of the terminal near the airport exit. While he was on the phone, Downing noticed that Thompson, who was wearing a Massachusetts State Police uniform, had approached him and was standing only a few feet away, close enough to overhear any conversation Downing might be having on the telephone. Downing noticed that Thompson had no reason to be in the position he was only a few feet away from Downing other than to observe or speak with Downing.

When Downing completed his phone call, Thompson demanded that Downing produce identification. Although Downing did not believe that he was free to leave without responding to Thompson’s demands, he respectfully declined to produce any identification without receiving an explanation of why he was being stopped. Thompson refused to provide any explanation, and said that if Downing was not going to produce identification he would have to leave the airport. Although suspicious that Thompson had singled him out based on considerations of race, Downing agreed to leave the airport to avoid further delay, humiliation and confrontation.

At the time that he was stopped by Thompson, Downing was in an area of the terminal which was generally accessible to the public. He was neither boarding nor attempting to board an aircraft. Thompson did not have a a reasonable suspicion that Downing had committed, was committing or was about to commit a crime and had no other lawful basis to stop or detain him or to require him to produce identification as a condition of remaining in the terminal.

Downing left the airport terminal on the upper level and attempted to locate a taxi. Moments later, Thompson followed Downing from the terminal and again demanded that Downing show him some identification, adding that if he did not produce it he would be “going downtown.” Downing specifically asked Thompson if he (Downing) was under arrest. Thompson told Downing that he was under arrest and no longer free to leave. Thompson refused to tell Downing why he was under arrest. Thompson appeared agitated and upset that Downing was not agreeing to hand over his identification documents. In Downing’s presence, Thompson used his radio to request assistance.

Other than asking him for identification, prior to detaining Downing Thompson did not ask Downing any questions about his flight plans, the reason he was at the airport, on what flight he had arrived, or any other questions designed to dispel any suspicion that Thompson may have had about Downing’s presence at the airport.

Five or more minutes later, three Massachusetts State Police troopers, including Croxton, joined Thompson in the area in front of the terminal. After speaking with Thompson separately, Croxton informed Downing that he was being asked for identification because Thompson had concluded that he had been behaving suspiciously. Croxton, however, could not describe any of Downing’s allegedly suspicious behavior, and gave Downing the impression that he had not asked Thompson. Croxton also refused to ask Thompson what it was about Downing that had aroused suspicion, stating to the effect that if his subordinate tells him he has suspicion “it is good enough for him.” During this exchange, and from the time they arrived on the scene, the two other State Police officers were positioned near Downing to make sure he could not leave.

Fearing that he really was going to be handcuffed and taken to a police lockup, and wishing to avoid further delay and harassment, Downing produced his driver’s license. Thompson took the license and brought it to a State Police cruiser, where he appeared to make a radio call. Two other troopers remained with Downing to prevent him from leaving. After some time, Downing’s driver's license was returned to him. Croxton, however, then informed Downing that he would also need to inspect his airline ticket. When Downing refused, Croxton told him that, if he did not produce his airline ticket, he would be placed on Logan Airport’s “trespass list” and his ability to return to the airport without a ticket would result in arrest. Again fearing he would in fact suffer the threatened consequences, Downing produced his airline ticket. All four police officers looked at Downing’s ticket to determine if it was a valid ticket. When Downing’s airline ticket was finally returned, Downing was permitted to leave the airport.

By stopping the plaintiff for purposes of questioning and inspection of his identification papers and plane ticket, and by informing him that he was under arrest and not free to leave, defendants Thompson and Croxton effected a seizure of the plaintiff’s person. By requiring Downing to produce identification papers and travel documents under threat of arrest or denial of access to the facilities of Logan Airport, defendants conducted a search of Downing’s effects. The actions of Thompson and Croxton, as described in this Complaint, were taken without probable cause or reasonable suspicion that Downing was engaged in any way in any unlawful activity.

Nevada's law - "Stop and Identify" statute is adopted by 24 states. Massachusetts does not have this statute. This means the people in Massachusetts are not required to produce identification when requested by police officer if there's no probable cause or similar. Arizona does have Stop And Identify statute which means Arizona can criminalize you for not producing identification AFTER lawful detention.

since this occurred at Logan Airport - the reason why TSA Officers (federal employee) are not involved is because there is no federal law requiring a person to produce identification - Fourth Amendment and Fifth Amendment so the Massachusetts state police got involved.

The result of this Downing case? Jury Finds Unlawful Detention At Logan Airport

December 9, 2007

BOSTON -- Friday evening, the jury in the Downing v. Massachusetts Port Authority trial found that state police had unlawfully detained King Downing at Logan Airport in October 2003. Mr. Downing also agreed to a settlement of his claims against the Massachusetts state trooper principally responsible for the unlawful detention, William Thompson.

"This jury verdict upholds an important principle," said Carol Rose, Executive Director of the ACLU of Massachusetts. "In the United States, people cannot be stopped without cause by the police and required to produce identification and papers proving that they have a right to be in a particular place. 'Your papers please' is a phrase that is alien to a free society."

"Police and airport security personnel should be on the lookout for genuinely suspicious behavior, but the law is clear that they may not stop someone unless they have a reasonable suspicion that a crime or an act of terrorism might be committed. The use of behavioral characteristics, like those that were kept secret in this case, does not justify the detention of someone in a non-secure area."

The ACLU of Massachusetts has questioned the use of behavioral pattern recognition out of concern that it increases the likelihood of racial profiling. "The police are going to find suspicious behavior where they look for it," Rose explained. "And experience teaches us that they are more likely to look for it among people of color or a particular ethnicity. We will all be safer if security personnel base their investigations on evidence, not simply racial characteristics."

Conclusion - Behavior Profiling Program FAILED
 
The law passed is going to fail. It is like during Nazi era when they made a law that if a person looks Jewish, he must provide documentation.
 
lol sorry for long posts but it is my recent newfound passion to read legal cases and legal interpretations of the law since I became the gun owner. Legal cases like this is related to firearm and I live in a very complicated & litigious state so I find it critically important for me to know my rights and the laws to the fine print.

I have extensively reviewed legal precedents, Constitution, federal law, Arizona law, and some. I have already shown abundant amount of cases and examples for ya'all in support of my argument. It is in my well-founded opinion that this immigration law that Arizona Governor Jan Brewer just signed is illegal and unconstitutional, if not unenforceable.
 
Well - I don't know about you but I don't believe I should automatically comply with LEO's request like an obedient lamb.
If a law officer wants to see my ID, especially in an airport, I would comply. It has nothing to do with being "an obedient lamb." It's a reasonable request in that situation.

If there is no probable cause, then I can refuse to show my identification due to Fourth and Fifth Amendments. If officer wants to arrest me - that's fine. That's what court is for and I'll be reaping in settlement $$$$$ in the end.
The problem is, no one who is stopped ever thinks there is probable cause. You don't always know what cause the officer has for stopping you until it after. Do you really want to risk going to court when you could have easily shown him your ID? Also, there is no guarantee that you'll win a civil settlement. The court could agree that the officer did have probable cause.

In short - Behavior Profiling failed because Downing is not a terrorist. The officer made a wrong "Behavioral Profiling" assessment and wrong judgment. As I showed you before - based on American's Behavioral Profiling training for police officers - it is clear that this training is inadequate and short so the error margin rate is high. Mind you - Downing is a Harvard-educated lawyer. Sounds familiar, right? Crowley and Gates - the one where President Obama said "Officer Crowley acted stupidly". BTW - (link) Crowley arrested Gates for disorderly conduct because of verbal abuse. The Massachusetts court has ruled that being verbally-abusive to officer is not a ground for disorderly conduct charge. There were several other legal cases relating to Gates' incident where Massachusetts court has stated that the person berating an officer is not a ground for disorderly conduct. but I digress.....
You're right, you do digress.

because they "have to" by covering Caucasian people just to avoid legal ramification (aka racial profiling) and Justice Department investigation.
So my elderly neighbor is the token old white guy? :hmm:


Wondering how many people had incidents like Downing :hmm:

It is ironic - King Downing is the National Coordinator of the ACLU's Campaign Against Racial Profiling and he was in town to attend a meeting on racial profiling. Mind you - Boston has a very very very long & deep history of police corruption and police abuse. Here's detail of Downing's legal case - link
Do you mean maybe he was trying to set up the police?


Nevada's law - "Stop and Identify" statute is adopted by 24 states. Massachusetts does not have this statute. This means the people in Massachusetts are not required to produce identification when requested by police officer if there's no probable cause or similar. Arizona does have Stop And Identify statute which means Arizona can criminalize you for not producing identification AFTER lawful detention.
Again, probable cause is not for the one who is stopped to determine. It's for the officer to decide at the time of confrontation, and for the court later to either affirm or reject.
 
If a law officer wants to see my ID, especially in an airport, I would comply. It has nothing to do with being "an obedient lamb." It's a reasonable request in that situation.
If it's a TSA agent wanting to see my ID and airline ticket, then I will comply.
If it's a state officer wanting to see my ID without probable cause, then I will not comply. The New Jersey law does not require me to produce ID upon request unless I am either a suspect or a disorderly person knowingly & willfully obstruct the justice - State v. Camillo

However - if the officer "Terry Stop" me, then yes I will comply and show my ID. That's the big difference.

The problem is, no one who is stopped ever thinks there is probable cause. You don't always know what cause the officer has for stopping you until it after. Do you really want to risk going to court when you could have easily shown him your ID? Also, there is no guarantee that you'll win a civil settlement. The court could agree that the officer did have probable cause.
Yes I am willing to risk going to court for the sake of freedom and civil rights especially for my fellow American citizens. I've already shown you several similar cases that courts have sided with the defendants, not officers.

and yes I know there's no guarantee that I'll win the civil settlement but the chance is high that police department would be willing to settle and forget about it. Welcome to NJ and NY. We've got tons of history like this. You would not believe how much NYC has doled out in settlement funds for past 10 years. The biggest hurt recently? 9/11 settlement - $675 million.

You're right, you do digress.
my apology :lol:

So my elderly neighbor is the token old white guy? :hmm:
:dunno:

Do you mean maybe he was trying to set up the police?
Did he? :hmm: Based on Downing's legal summary - it doesn't look like he was setting them up. He was just standing his ground.... even though he caved in the end. But I'm glad that he did not let this go. It is the civil duty to file a lawsuit against police officer if your civil rights was violated. That's why Downing won.

Again, probable cause is not for the one who is stopped to determine. It's for the officer to decide at the time of confrontation, and for the court later to either affirm or reject.
Yes - probable cause. That's the problem. I have already shown you cases that police officers are not reliably and sufficiently trained in this tricky matter and that how sneaky police officers can be by trumping up far-fetched probable cause and lies in order to incur him into submission. (yes the police is legally allowed to lie)

I hope Arizona has enough money in its pocket for future lawsuit settlements.
 
Well - I don't know about you but I don't believe I should automatically comply with LEO's request like an obedient lamb. If there is no probable cause, then I can refuse to show my identification due to Fourth and Fifth Amendments. If officer wants to arrest me - that's fine. That's what court is for and I'll be reaping in settlement $$$$$ in the end.

In short - Behavior Profiling failed because Downing is not a terrorist. The officer made a wrong "Behavioral Profiling" assessment and wrong judgment. As I showed you before - based on American's Behavioral Profiling training for police officers - it is clear that this training is inadequate and short so the error margin rate is high. Mind you - Downing is a Harvard-educated lawyer. Sounds familiar, right? Crowley and Gates - the one where President Obama said "Officer Crowley acted stupidly". BTW - (link) Crowley arrested Gates for disorderly conduct because of verbal abuse. The Massachusetts court has ruled that being verbally-abusive to officer is not a ground for disorderly conduct charge. There were several other legal cases relating to Gates' incident where Massachusetts court has stated that the person berating an officer is not a ground for disorderly conduct. but I digress.....


because they "have to" by covering Caucasian people just to avoid legal ramification (aka racial profiling) and Justice Department investigation.


Wondering how many people had incidents like Downing :hmm:

It is ironic - King Downing is the National Coordinator of the ACLU's Campaign Against Racial Profiling and he was in town to attend a meeting on racial profiling. Mind you - Boston has a very very very long & deep history of police corruption and police abuse. Here's detail of Downing's legal case - link



Nevada's law - "Stop and Identify" statute is adopted by 24 states. Massachusetts does not have this statute. This means the people in Massachusetts are not required to produce identification when requested by police officer if there's no probable cause or similar. Arizona does have Stop And Identify statute which means Arizona can criminalize you for not producing identification AFTER lawful detention.

since this occurred at Logan Airport - the reason why TSA Officers (federal employee) are not involved is because there is no federal law requiring a person to produce identification - Fourth Amendment and Fifth Amendment so the Massachusetts state police got involved.

The result of this Downing case? Jury Finds Unlawful Detention At Logan Airport





Conclusion - Behavior Profiling Program FAILED

Have you read the actual bill?

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/04/16/AzSB1070.pdf



FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE
WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).

Border patrol agents are included - all of the points you have made in your argument have been hysterical paranoid failures.

As for me, I think I will be going to Coldstone tmw and Petsmart. After I find what I am looking for on a Go Daddy hosted website using my Intel computer.
 
If it's a TSA agent wanting to see my ID and airline ticket, then I will comply.
If it's a state officer wanting to see my ID without probable cause, then I will not comply. The New Jersey law does not require me to produce ID upon request unless I am either a suspect or a disorderly person knowingly & willfully obstruct the justice - State v. Camillo

However - if the officer "Terry Stop" me, then yes I will comply and show my ID. That's the big difference.
You still don't get it. It's not up to you to determine if there is probable cause. How do you know that the officer didn't just get an APB on a murder suspect who fits your description? How do you know they haven't been issued an Amber Alert for a vehicle like the one you're driving? Why would you want to hinder their job?


Yes I am willing to risk going to court for the sake of freedom and civil rights especially for my fellow American citizens. I've already shown you several similar cases that courts have sided with the defendants, not officers.
I'm sorry to be crude but how does acting like a butt-head when dealing with the police help anyone's freedom or civil rights?

and yes I know there's no guarantee that I'll win the civil settlement but the chance is high that police department would be willing to settle and forget about it. Welcome to NJ and NY. We've got tons of history like this. You would not believe how much NYC has doled out in settlement funds for past 10 years. The biggest hurt recently? 9/11 settlement - $675 million.
I hope you wouldn't do such nonsense just for a monetary incentive.
 
You still don't get it. It's not up to you to determine if there is probable cause. How do you know that the officer didn't just get an APB on a murder suspect who fits your description?
you are correct that I do not get to determine if it's a probable cause or not but I can try to get officer to tell me what the probable cause is. This is where you have to use your best judgment when responding to officer. It depends on the scenario. On most cases - you can really know if there is a probable cause or not. It's kinda obvious. Again - use your best judgment.

However - if I were in the vicinity of crime, then yes I will have to comply as per Terry Stop law.

The officers can have a "consensual conversation" - a casual conversation with me when in their mind that they're suspecting me of being involved with the crime but lack specific facts to produce a probable cause. The officer can kindly ask me for my ID without probable cause and it is up to me to show ID or not. By law - I do not have to comply with their request. "Am I free to go?" is all I can ask.

I'm not a firm believer of "Nothing To Hide, Nothing To Fear" doctrine (aka "if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about."). I don't believe in police state. Orwellian state. fascist state. That's why I live in America, not England or Germany. France requires people to show ID when requested with or without probable cause.

How do you know they haven't been issued an Amber Alert for a vehicle like the one you're driving? Why would you want to hinder their job?
if you're in a vehicle - you are required by law to provide ID upon request. no matter what. That's the primary difference. If you are walking on sidewalk, minding your own business - you are not required to provide ID upon request if there's no probable cause.

I'm sorry to be crude but how does acting like a butt-head when dealing with the police help anyone's freedom or civil rights?
Because of Camillo and Downing - the officers will smarten up and there will be less victims of police harassment in the future time. In fact - Camillo and Downing cases were bolstered by previous cases. Not all officers are aware of it so there's nothing we can do except to stand up for your rights - either on street or at court.

I hope you wouldn't do such nonsense just for a monetary incentive.
I don't think it's nonsense when it comes to Civil Rights violation. I hope the cop would play it cool and not be stupid enough to get a mark in his jacket (a lingo for bad record in his police file)... which would lead to questionable credibility issue for his pending arrest cases.

I should not be jailed for failing to produce ID if there's no probable cause like Downing and Camillo but hey... if the officer wanna go down that path, let's go. I have nothing to lose but the officer does - he'll risk his credibility in his jacket and possibly his job.
 
Butthead? Ha ha.... such uncouth language...but I digress.

Man, never saw so much paranoia and prejudices.
 
Butthead? Ha ha.... such uncouth language...but I digress.

Man, never saw so much paranoia and prejudices.

It never ceases to amaze me :giggle:

AG: Court challenge possible on immigration law - Yahoo! News

WASHINGTON – Attorney General Eric Holder said Tuesday that the federal government may go to court to challenge Arizona's new law which makes it a state crime to be in the United States illegally.


bwa ha ha ha ha !!!:laugh2: Now THAT was funny!

but it gets better:

President Barack Obama has instructed the Justice Department to examine the Arizona law that he said last week threatens to "undermine basic notions of fairness." He also is pressing anew for national immigration legislation, saying, "If we continue to fail to act at a federal level, we will continue to see misguided efforts opening up around the country."

Misguided efforts? Arizona is ENFORCING a FEDERALLY MANDATED IMMIGRATION LAW!
 
you are correct that I do not get to determine if it's a probable cause or not but I can try to get officer to tell me what the probable cause is. This is where you have to use your best judgment when responding to officer. It depends on the scenario. On most cases - you can really know if there is a probable cause or not. It's kinda obvious. Again - use your best judgment.

However - if I were in the vicinity of crime, then yes I will have to comply as per Terry Stop law.

So, if an Arizona LEO pulls a van over for a busted tail light in an area known for illegal trafficking, discovers the driver speaks no English and is Hispanic; and the van is crammed full of Hispanic occupants that also speak no English, then it would be an act of "racism" for the officer to assume reasonably that the driver of the van was transporting illegals?

Now remember, before this law was passed, an officer was NOT allowed to inquire as to the occupants legal citizenship status. Now they can.
 
Paranoia is right. They should be so lucky and yet how convenient do they forget about how Mexico tracks foreigners, tourists and foreign nationals using their National Catalog of Foreigners. Then you have the National Population Registry that tracks and verifies the identity of every member of the population. And it's no mystery that as citizens they must carry a citizens’ identity card. If visitors do not possess any proper documents and identification, which is a felony in Mexico, they are subject to arrest as illegal aliens. Sounds reasonable, right?

Right? Hello?

Lone Star Diary Mexico’s Immigration Laws
 
6 hours ago (seems the protesters attempts are futile):

washingtonpost.com

Feds: 69 illegal immigrants found at AZ drop house

The Associated Press
Tuesday, April 27, 2010; 10:07 PM

PHOENIX -- Federal authorities say 69 suspected illegal immigrants, including two children and an infant, have been rescued from a drop house in Phoenix.

A neighbor called police Tuesday and said he'd seen a pickup dropping off about 30 people Monday evening. Police say responding officers found the people inside the house and turned the case over to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Detectives believed those inside were undocumented immigrants at a stop on their way from Mexico. ICE spokesman Vincent Picard says there were no reports of mistreatment, and no coyotes or human smuggling operatives were arrested.

---

Information from: The Arizona Republic,Arizona Local News - Phoenix Arizona News - Breaking News - azcentral.com
 
6 hours ago (seems the protesters attempts are futile):

washingtonpost.com

there you go. new immigration law is not needed. that is how it's currently done. This case is not the result of new immigration law which will be effective as of late August.
 
So, if an Arizona LEO pulls a van over for a busted tail light in an area known for illegal trafficking, discovers the driver speaks no English and is Hispanic; and the van is crammed full of Hispanic occupants that also speak no English, then it would be an act of "racism" for the officer to assume reasonably that the driver of the van was transporting illegals?
and what about a van crammed full of Hispanic occupants with legal work visa who speak little or no English.

Now remember, before this law was passed, an officer was NOT allowed to inquire as to the occupants legal citizenship status. Now they can.
Correction - before this law was passed, the officer was NOT REQUIRED to ask about immigration status but they CAN ask if needed to. If the hospital suspected its patients as illegals, they call police. The police detains them and contact I.C.E.

When arresting the person for whatever the crime is - the police would be able to check for his/her immigration status by contacting I.C.E.

Now with this new law -
1. the officer IS REQUIRED to ask about immigration status if they have reasonable suspicion.
2. since illegal immigration is a federal crime - now Arizona is making it a state crime as well so that they can imprison them up to 6 months and fine them $2,500.

After confirming the immigration status that they are illegals - the police must turn them over to federal government for deportation. You cannot expect Border Patrol agents to respond to every single pick-up call especially for petty thing. I.C.E. Agency and Homeland Security have a much more important things to do - investigating and cracking down on a more serious crime relating to sophisticated business of illegal immigration, illegal crossing, smuggling, drug trafficking, and terrorism. In fact - the federal government can chose to refuse to pick them up. So what the police can do with illegals? They put them in jail for up to 6 months. Arizona state IS NOT allowed to deport them, only federal government can deport them. So do you want put a financial burden on Arizona taxpayers to pay for 6 months of prisons for thousands of Juans and Miguels?

I suppose you want our I.C.E. agency to focus on capturing endless stream of harmless Juans and Miguels (insignificant low-value targets) crossing the border on daily basis instead of focusing on high-value targets like terrorists, gangs, and drug smugglers.
 
and what about a van crammed full of Hispanic occupants with legal work visa who speak little or no English.


Correction - before this law was passed, the officer was NOT REQUIRED to ask about immigration status but they CAN ask if needed to. If the hospital suspected its patients as illegals, they call police. The police detains them and contact I.C.E.

When arresting the person for whatever the crime is - the police would be able to check for his/her immigration status by contacting I.C.E.

Now with this new law -
1. the officer IS REQUIRED to ask about immigration status if they have reasonable suspicion.
2. since illegal immigration is a federal crime - now Arizona is making it a state crime as well so that they can imprison them up to 6 months and fine them $2,500.

After confirming the immigration status that they are illegals - the police must turn them over to federal government for deportation. You cannot expect Border Patrol agents to respond to every single pick-up call especially for petty thing. I.C.E. Agency and Homeland Security have a much more important things to do - investigating and cracking down on a more serious crime relating to sophisticated business of illegal immigration, illegal crossing, smuggling, drug trafficking, and terrorism. In fact - the federal government can chose to ignore them. So what the police can do with illegals? They put them in jail for up to 6 months. Arizona state IS NOT allowed to deport them, only federal government can deport them. So do you want put a financial burden on Arizona taxpayers to pay for 6 months of prisons for thousands of Juans and Miguels?

I suppose you want our I.C.E. agency to focus on capturing endless stream of harmless Juans and Miguels (insignificant low-value targets) crossing the border on daily basis instead of focusing on high-value targets like terrorists, gangs, and drug smugglers.

Since there's no accusation of racism, so this one I do agree with.
 
you know what, Steinhauer? Currently - the National Guards are not allowed to do border patrol nor immigration-related affair without federal government's order.

Since I.C.E. and Homeland Security are stretched thin and there's not enough Border Patrol agents... I believe the federal government should allow Arizona Governor to send the National Guards to assist Border Patrol agents. In order to be in compliance with federal laws - the National Guards should serve as OP (Observation Post) and notify Border Patrol agents to detain and deport them. For ie - a team - 1 Border Patrol agent and 3 National Guards.

Arizona has over 8,000 National Guards and probably few hundred Border Patrol agents in Arizona.

I think that is a very effective way to patrol the state border, don't you agree?
 
interesting... looks like my assumption is wrong.

I see that Arizona currently has 140 National Guards assisting Border Patrol agents and wanted to send additional 250 National Guards however Arizona cannot afford long-term plan so they wanted the federal gov't to foot the bill.

and I see that there are total of over 2,000 Border Patrol Agents in Arizona. Looks like both governments need to stop being bureaucratic and wasteful.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top