Arizona governor signs immigration bill

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Steinhauer said:
Yawn .... there you go putting words in my mouth.

I clearly stated earlier that illegals should be treated like criminals. Because, after all, that is what they are.

Again, do you think it is a crime to enter the U.S. Illegally? Or, should illegals be rewarded for criminal behavior? (i.e. should taxpayers money be used for their healthcare and education? do they have the right to sue for "equal accessibility"?)

And when proven in a court of law that an individual is here illegally, should they be deported?
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It's funny because anywhere else in the country if somebody enters illegally in another country with no documentation and are caught they are faced with the consequences of breaking that country's law. Here, it's a "right." Not only is this silly but downright illogical. No one has a right to enter this country illegally without documentation, this means also U.S. citizens when returning to the U.S. they must prove they are citizens of the U.S. and not just enter without documentation.
 
kokonut said:
That's spelled out in the Executive order by the governor. I wouldn't know the exact criteria.
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because it doesn't exist and nobody has a damn clue. Even cops do not know. Hell - I don't even know how without using racial profiling. If I were to do this job effectively - I'll have to use racial profiling but since the law says that I can only ask for immigration status AFTER they were suspected of something.... eh - I can just cook up the probable cause over tiniest infraction like disorderly conduct. speeding in excess of 2 mph.

Ever heard of "testilying"?

kokonut said:
Though I believe there can be processes involved where racial profiling isn't needed or required at all. For example, at Ben Gurion airport security officials use behavior profiling to narrow down potential terrorists (not saying illegals are terrorists, mind you, just pointing something out here) only because in the past they did use racial profiling but it didn't work because a group of Japanese terrorists got past the security section because they didn't fit their racial profile. The result proved devastating.
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the reason why this "behavior profiling" doesn't work is because they were unconsciously racist and selective. They were specifically watch out for Islamic people or anybody with "Islamic behavior"

kokonut said:
Is Israeli-Style Airport Security Coming to America? - International Analyst Network

Again, this is not about making parallels on illegals with terrorists. Just providing an example of how racial profiling isn't needed for a system to work.
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example? what example? how does that Israeli-style Airport Security apply to this if the illegals are crossing the border by going thru a hole in the wall, not airport? :confused:
 
kokonut said:
It's funny because anywhere else in the country if somebody enters illegally in another country with no documentation and are caught they are faced with the consequences of breaking that country's law. Here, it's a "right." Not only is this silly but downright illogical. No one has a right to enter this country illegally without documentation, this means U.S. citizens when returning to the U.S. they must prove they are citizens of the U.S. and not just enter without documentation.
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again - the issue is not about showing the documentation for crossing the border. We all must show our passports when entering the country but in any civilized country - we have rights. They cannot mistreat me. They cannot detain me indefinitely. They cannot deny my legal rights.

Now in case you have trouble following the thread - this thread is about showing the documentation for proof of immigration status IN America. If i were pulled over for speeding.... I must show 3 documents - license, insurance, and registration, right? Now I have to show proof of my immigration status that I'm a law-abiding American citizen??? now the local cops are the federal immigration officers like I.C.E.?????

oh you Caucasians..... :lol:
 
Jiro said:
so Steinhauer..... you keep claiming that illegal immigrants have more rights than American citizens. what rights are they?
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Use your own advice and pick up a newspaper once in a while. :giggle:

16 illegals sue Arizona rancher - Washington Times

Illegal Immigrants Sue Wendy's

Undocumented Immigrant Sues Harris County For $30 Million - KIAH

Illegal immigrant sues after hospital deports him | Immigration Chronicles | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

those are just a few from doing a google search. I am so surprised you never use google.
 
Jiro said:
again - the issue is not about showing the documentation for crossing the border. We all must show our passports when entering the country but in any civilized country - we have rights. They cannot mistreat me. They cannot detain me indefinitely. They cannot deny my legal rights.

Now in case you have trouble following the thread - this thread is about showing the documentation for proof of immigration status IN America. If i were pulled over for speeding.... I must show 3 documents - license, insurance, and registration, right? Now I have to show proof of my immigration status that I'm a law-abiding American citizen??? now the local cops are the federal immigration officers like I.C.E.?????

oh you Caucasians..... :lol:
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Your a racist
 
kokonut said:
It's funny because anywhere else in the country if somebody enters illegally in another country with no documentation and are caught they are faced with the consequences of breaking that country's law. Here, it's a "right." Not only is this silly but downright illogical. No one has a right to enter this country illegally without documentation, this means also U.S. citizens when returning to the U.S. they must prove they are citizens of the U.S. and not just enter without documentation.
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exactly, I have had to do the same thing when returning from overseas.

Should I sue because the guy that checked my documents was black and I am white?
 
A driver license, as in the case of Reba's example for South Carolina, already tells the police that the person is a citizen. It's already an adequate document to have on hand.
 
Steinhauer said:
exactly, I have had to do the same thing when returning from overseas.

Should I sue because the guy that checked my documents was black and I am white?
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If you have 'em, no sweat. Just as it is required of you to carry passports in other countries. I'm pro-legal immigration. If you don't have the proper documentation, well, there are consequences as a result, especially if you're staying illegally in a different country.
 
Steinhauer said:
Use your own advice and pick up a newspaper once in a while. :giggle:

16 illegals sue Arizona rancher - Washington Times
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I support Barnett's cause. He did the right thing. Wondering what's the result of this lawsuit cuz I can't find the latest one.

Steinhauer said:
Illegal Immigrants Sue Wendy's
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The illegals were taken advantage of by the employer and they told a lie that they will have employer sponsorship. It is the employer who is at fault for hiring them and taking advantage of them. Why focus on illegals? not employers?

Steinhauer said:
Undocumented Immigrant Sues Harris County For $30 Million - KIAH
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And you support this? You support mistreatment and cruel lengthy detention of illegals in America? The illegals are human beings. The criminals are human beings. They have rights.

Steinhauer said:
Illegal immigrant sues after hospital deports him | Immigration Chronicles | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
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The Supreme Court is explicitly cleared about this issue when it comes to treating the injured people - regardless of their immigration status. and the hospital is required to notify the law enforcement if the patient is illegal immigrant. I support hospital's case.

Steinhauer said:
those are just a few from doing a google search. I am so surprised you never use google.
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still don't see anything that supports your claim that illegals have more rights than citizens. Citizens can do same thing anyway. I'm waiting to see what rights that illegals have that citizens do not have.
 
kokonut said:
A driver license, as in the case of Reba's example for South Carolina, already tells the police that the person is a citizen. It's already an adequate document to have on hand.
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so why do the Arizona driver (an immigrant) need to carry 3 more documents? I listed the article in my post above. Apparently - driver license isn't adequate enough
 
Steinhauer said:
exactly, I have had to do the same thing when returning from overseas.

Should I sue because the guy that checked my documents was black and I am white?
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did you even read the Arizona immigration bill? It's not about checking your passport before entering the country. It's about local police officers doing the job as Federal immigration officers (I.C.E.) on street.
 
Thanks to kokonuts link, I found something interesting:

Press Release

August 24, 2006
American Hispanics Rally Behind Border Patrol Officers Facing Prison for Protecting their Communities

Washington, DC—Rampant lawlessness along the U.S.-Mexico border is of great concern to all Americans but for the people who live in communities along the border it is a daily threat to their safety and security. For these largely American Hispanic communities, the Border Patrol amounts to an overstressed and outmanned line of protection for communities under siege. In fact, these communities are so overwhelmed by illegal immigrants and the crime that comes with them, that Arizona and New Mexico have been forced to declare states of emergency at critical points over the past few years.
You Don’t Speak for Me! (YDSFM), a national coalition of American Hispanics who favor tighter immigration enforcement, has joined with thousands of other Americans in support of two Border Patrol officers who face as much a 20 years in prison for wounding a Mexican drug smuggler who had assaulted them and then tried to escape. Calling the convictions of Officers Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean, “a gross miscarriage of justice,” YDSFM is joining a national campaign to re-open their cases.
“These two officers have become pawns in a political campaign to make sure the laws against illegal immigration in this country are made as difficult as possible to enforce,” charged retired Col. Al Rodriguez, chairman of YDSFM. “If Officers Ramos and Compean had been serving in any police department in America, instead of the Border Patrol, they would have received medals and had their picture taken with the mayor. Instead, they face a possible 20-year prison sentence for upsetting the political interest groups that want to tie the hands of the people who protect our borders.”
YDSFM is part of a national bipartisan coalition that is seeking a federal investigation into the events that led to the convictions of Ramos and Compean. A web site, Convio: Site Not Found has been established to aid the two officers and their families.
YDSFM is also concerned that the chilling effect that the convictions of Ramos and Compean will have on other Border Patrol officers will further endanger innocent people – many American Hispanics – who live with the daily specter of organized crime syndicates running roughshod over their communities. “The people who live in South Texas have become hostages to criminal organizations that use their communities as a gateway to America,” Rodriguez said. “Unfortunately armed militias effectively taking over control of towns and communities does not happen only in Lebanon. It’s happening right here in the United States and this trial will only embolden the criminal militias that terrorize these border communities.”
American Hispanics, especially those who live near the border, overwhelmingly support efforts to increase law enforcement against coyotes, contends YDSFM. “To many people in South Texas, the Border Patrol is the only thing standing between them and the criminal gangs that run everything from drugs, to guns, to human beings across that border. The people who are out there doing battle with these criminals are heroes who deserve our complete support,” Rodriguez concluded.
For more information please contact Ira Mehlman (213) 700-0407.
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You Don't Speak for Me


I can only imagine the arguments used against those two border agents.

Probably the same arguments seen here.
 
kokonut said:
Well, Arizona is following a Federal law.



http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070h.pdf

As long as there exists a "reasonable suspicion" then a “reasonable attempt” can be done to verify the suspect’s immigration status is. Arizona is actually enforcing and following a Federal law.

Sorry dude.
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Reasonable is far too subjective a term. If they were following Federal law there would be no need for the state law. Federal supercedes state. This is redundant, at best.
 
kokonut said:
That's spelled out in the Executive order by the governor. I wouldn't know the exact criteria. Though I believe there can be processes involved where racial profiling isn't needed or required at all. For example, at Ben Gurion airport security officials use behavior profiling to narrow down potential terrorists (not saying illegals are terrorists, mind you, just pointing something out here) only because in the past they did use racial profiling but it didn't work because a group of Japanese terrorists got past the security section because they didn't fit their racial profile. The result proved devastating.


Is Israeli-Style Airport Security Coming to America? - International Analyst Network

Again, this is not about making parallels on illegals with terrorists. Just providing an example of how racial profiling isn't needed for a system to work.
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Yeah, riiiiight. Laws like this won't lead to racial profiling and civil rights violations. And pigs can fly and bears don't shyte in the woods, either.:roll:
 
jillio said:
Reasonable to far too subjective a term. If they were following Federal law there would be no need for the state law. Federal supercedes state. This is redundant, at best.
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and illegal. sssshhhhhhh :cool2:
 
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