Arizona governor signs immigration bill

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Jiro, I think maybe we need to clarify "civil rights" and personally I for one say "NO" I don't think they should have any rights in this country if entered illegally, they are criminals no matter how you coat it and should be treated the same as any other criminal. That does NOT imply that they should not receive humane treatment but it does say they should not be "untitled" to the same things as legal citizens are. They have not put one dime into this country so should not reap rewards. I guess one could say they may pay sales tax if they purchase anything but I think that is a small % of total tax. Anyway, if Illegal then they are illegal!

criminals have civil rights. that should apply for illegals as well. any human being on American soil - regardless of their immigration status is entitled to civil rights. we've been preaching about it to all countries with history of poor human rights.

The illegals obviously do not have voting rights, gun rights, and several other rights that the American citizen has. The major portion of Civil Rights is the human rights. They are entitled for right to a fair trial too... if they claimed to be political asylum or whatever.

Here's a problem - those kind of people want you to think the illegals will have the same rights as American citizen if Obama passed some bills (which does not exist at all).
 
Every "red herring" has been a point you made that I was simply echoing and replying to, from citing criminal rates to bi-partisan support. Seems to me you're just blowing off everything I say as a "red herring" without realizing they're all points you originally brought up.

I've already explained that it's not illegal immigrants that is racist, it's the way in which AZ officers can now suspect anyone of being an illegal immigrant and the fact they have little to go by other than racial profiling.

If the only real opposition is that illegal immigrants are taking up our resources without paying, then why not make them legal and have them pay taxes and put in too? Problem solved. Why is shutting them out the only solution? After all everyone in America was an immigrant at one point or another, if we shut out all the immigrants throughout history, there would be no America.

Did you know there is an Executive order requiring the training on implementing the law without racial profiling?

Resources being taken up is more than not just paying. It's more taxes we have to pay, we see limited resources meant for our citizens, we see families of victims murdered or killed by illegal aliens that take up their time and resources (even lawsuits), it ties up the system, and so on. Making them "legal" isn't the answer if our border is still porous. Not a good idea.

Yes, immigrants because they entered the U.S. legally. That's why there is an emphasis between "illegal" and "legal" immigrants.
 
Even Obama said they are here illegally and used the word "illegally."

“Surely we can all agree that when 11 million people in our country are living here illegally, outside the system, that's unacceptable,”

So, let's not mince words about the definition of "illegal" which means they have broken the law entering the U.S. without proper documentation. Doing so is a crime.

as CJB said - the issue is not about what illegal immigrants doing is illegal or not. It's about how the police does the job.
 
Every "red herring" has been a point you made that I was simply echoing and replying to, from citing criminal rates to bi-partisan support. Seems to me you're just blowing off everything I say as a "red herring" without realizing they're all points you originally brought up.

I've already explained that it's not illegal immigrants that is racist, it's the way in which AZ officers can now suspect anyone of being an illegal immigrant and the fact they have little to go by other than racial profiling.

If the only real opposition is that illegal immigrants are taking up our resources without paying, then why not make them legal and have them pay taxes and put in too? Problem solved. Why is shutting them out the only solution? After all everyone in America was an immigrant at one point or another, if we shut out all the immigrants throughout history, there would be no America.

How is it racism if America accepts legal immigrants and not illegal immigrants?
You Don't Speak for Me - are these people racist??
 
Did you know there is an Executive order requiring the training on implementing the law without racial profiling?

good luck with that. It's typical political oxymoronic game. or rather a knee-jerk legislation for shock factor to get federal government moving with federal immigration bill even though they know the legislation will eventually get struck down.

enforce the law without racial profiling..... LOL!!!! talk about "Politically Correct" - how ironic!!!
 
Did you know there is an Executive order requiring the training on implementing the law without racial profiling?

So what criteria are officers going to be using when they suspect someone of being illegal?
 
How is it racism if America accepts legal immigrants and not illegal immigrants?
You Don't Speak for Me - are these people racist??

Nowhere did I claim that not accepting illegal immigrants is racist. Suspecting people on the street of being illegal based on racial profiling is racist.
 
good luck with that. It's typical political oxymoronic game. or rather a knee-jerk legislation for shock factor to get federal government moving with federal immigration bill even though they know the legislation will eventually get struck down.

enforce the law without racial profiling..... LOL!!!! talk about "Politically Correct" - how ironic!!!

Exactly. They're covering their asses. So that if Officer Smith gets accused of a race-related hate crime, Smith's lawyer can say "oh but, see, we implemented training to avoid racial profiling."
 
Are they being treated inhumanely by law enforcement agencies?

Does an illegal alien have a civil right to not be stopped and questioned about his status if there is suspicion?

If our borders were tightened up, we wouldn't have such a problem with people crossing over illegally in the first place. Why do we continue to allow this problem to go on? Other nations can keep out illegal aliens, so why can't the USA do the same?

Your touching on a very important point.

These people want "more rights" than American citizens. They were criminal to begin with and feel they are "above the law" and anyone who wishes to enforce the law are "racial profiling abusive leo's".
 
Your touching on a very important point.

These people want "more rights" than American citizens. They were criminal to begin with and feel they are "above the law" and anyone who wishes to enforce the law are "racial profiling abusive leo's".

what rights? do they currently have those rights? source please?
 
criminals have civil rights. that should apply for illegals as well. any human being on American soil - regardless of their immigration status is entitled to civil rights. we've been preaching about it to all countries with history of poor human rights.

The illegals obviously do not have voting rights, gun rights, and several other rights that the American citizen has. The major portion of Civil Rights is the human rights. They are entitled for right to a fair trial too... if they claimed to be political asylum or whatever.

Here's a problem - those kind of people want you to think the illegals will have the same rights as American citizen if Obama passed some bills (which does not exist at all).

Again, your missing something very important. These Civil Rights, that you keep championing, ONLY APPLY TO U.S. CITIZENS

If the illegals don't like that, they can leave ..... which is what Arizona is telling them to do.
Which is what the Federal Government should be telling them to do.
Your argument is giving them an incentive to stay.
 
Again, your missing something very important. These Civil Rights, that you keep championing, ONLY APPLY TO U.S. CITIZENS

If the illegals don't like that, they can leave ..... which is what Arizona is telling them to do.

Which is what the Federal Government should be telling them to do.

and you call yourself an American... yet you don't even know the Constitution by heart? I'm an immigrant ffs. shameless....

14th Amendment - "Nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the law."

Fact check: Illegal immigrants have legal rights | Immigration Chronicles | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
The Supreme Court has ruled that these provisions apply to all persons in the U.S., without regard to race, or nationality. Therefore, U.S. residents -- legal and illegal -- have constitutional rights such as equal protection of the law and the right to due process.

Other rights undocumented residents are entitled to include Fourth Amendment protections against illegal searches of homes. The Supreme Court, in a landmark ruling 25 years ago, also ruled that all children, regardless of their immigration status, are entitled to free public education, as mandated by the Fourteenth Amendment.

Federal law also requires publicly funded hospitals to provide emergency care to all patients, illegal or not.

homework for you - 02/13/03 - Plyler vs. Doe: The Solution and FactCheck.org: Test-marketing the "Amnesty" Issue

Your argument is giving them an incentive to stay.
better than your argument which is to give them an incentive to be racist, abusive, and hostile to all immigrants - both legal and illegal. You, sir, are unconsciously racist (and a facist) :)

As Reba said - PREVENT them from coming into America. PREVENT the incentive to make them come. Seal up the border. Boost up the manpower and equipment to monitor the border. Crack down on corporations and employers for hiring illegals.
 
Again, your missing something very important. These Civil Rights, that you keep championing, ONLY APPLY TO U.S. CITIZENS

If the illegals don't like that, they can leave ..... which is what Arizona is telling them to do.
Which is what the Federal Government should be telling them to do.
Your argument is giving them an incentive to stay.

Being illegal, they don't have the rights that the U.S. grants its citizens, such as voting. But as humans, even illegal immigrants are perfectly entitled to the same fundamental human rights that all humans on this planet are entitled to. Even criminals are given a right to due process.

Article 10.

Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.
^ Top

Article 11.

(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights
 
and you call yourself an American... yet you don't even know the Constitution by heart? I'm an immigrant ffs. shameless....

14th Amendment - "Nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the law."

Fact check: Illegal immigrants have legal rights | Immigration Chronicles | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle


homework for you - 02/13/03 - Plyler vs. Doe: The Solution and FactCheck.org: Test-marketing the "Amnesty" Issue


better than your argument which is to give them an incentive to be racist, abusive, and hostile to all immigrants - both legal and illegal. You, sir, are unconsciously racist (and a facist) :)

As Reba said - PREVENT them from coming into America. PREVENT the incentive to make them come. Seal up the border. Boost up the manpower and equipment to monitor the border. Crack down on corporations and employers for hiring illegals.

Yawn .... there you go putting words in my mouth.

I clearly stated earlier that illegals should be treated like criminals. Because, after all, that is what they are.

Again, do you think it is a crime to enter the U.S. Illegally? Or, should illegals be rewarded for criminal behavior? (i.e. should taxpayers money be used for their healthcare and education? do they have the right to sue for "equal accessibility"?)

And when proven in a court of law that an individual is here illegally, should they be deported?
 
Being illegal, they don't have the rights that the U.S. grants its citizens, such as voting. But as humans, even illegal immigrants are perfectly entitled to the same fundamental human rights that all humans on this planet are entitled to. Even criminals are given a right to due process.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights

God bless you and God bless America for not being savage like Chinese government and North Korean government.
 
God bless you and God bless America for not being savage like Chinese government and North Korean government.

Do those countries have an illegal immigration problem? Are they racially profiling?
 
already answered your questions quite a few times but I'll answer again. Your critical thinking is shockingly ignorant and a prime example of why America is corroding away.

Yawn .... there you go putting words in my mouth.
please correct me but you haven't.

I clearly stated earlier that illegals should be treated like criminals. Because, after all, that is what they are.
yes but before they were criminals - they are "innocent until proven guilty." and I clearly stated that Supreme Court has granted them rights over 25 years ago (but not same rights as American citizens such as voting rights, gun rights, etc.)

Again, do you think it is a crime to enter the U.S. Illegally?
yes. I don't "think". It's a crime to enter any country illegally anywhere in the world. In many countries - you are either shot on sight or severely punished at prison for a very long time. Thanks God we're not savages.

Or, should illegals be rewarded for criminal behavior?
rewarded? how?

(i.e. should taxpayers money be used for their healthcare and education? do they have the right to sue for "equal accessibility"?)
and I've already provided you source above which Supreme Court has made a landmark ruling over 25 years ago.

And when proven in a court of law that an individual is here illegally, should they be deported?
yes. However - if that illegal has been here for a long time, he deserves the rights to path toward to becoming a legal American resident AFTER paying fines and perhaps jail prison if it's warranted.

Cesar Milan. Should he be deported out?
 
so Steinhauer..... you keep claiming that illegal immigrants have more rights than American citizens. what rights are they?
 
So what criteria are officers going to be using when they suspect someone of being illegal?

That's spelled out in the Executive order by the governor. I wouldn't know the exact criteria. Though I believe there can be processes involved where racial profiling isn't needed or required at all. For example, at Ben Gurion airport security officials use behavior profiling to narrow down potential terrorists (not saying illegals are terrorists, mind you, just pointing something out here) only because in the past they did use racial profiling but it didn't work because a group of Japanese terrorists got past the security section because they didn't fit their racial profile. The result proved devastating.

Takeshi Okudaira, Yasuyuki Yasuda, and Kozo Okamoto were suicidal members of the Japanese Red Army, willing to kill for the Palestinian cause. After being trained by Abu Hassan’s group in Lebanon, the three men were dispatched to Lod.

Okudaira, Yasuda, and Okamoto ostensibly drew little attention when they arrived at the Lod Airport on an Air France flight from Paris. Dressed in business suits, the college-aged kids carried musical instrument cases as a disguise. Inside the cases were semi-automatic machine guns, which once retrieved from the baggage claim were used in the attack.

The Japanese terrorists fired into the crowd, cutting down a group of Puerto Rican tourists visiting the Holy Land and killing sixteen of them. They threw grenades into packs of terrified people seeking shelter. One of the gunmen ran out onto the tarmac and began shooting passengers coming off a flight.

When it was over, a total of 26 people were dead. Eighty were injured. Israel changed the airport’s name to the Ben-Gurion International Airport and began a security system based on behavior profiling.

The system works. Fourteen years later, the case of Anne Marie Murphy — prevented by Israeli security agents from boarding an El Al flight with seven pounds of explosives — makes the point. The pregnant, fair-skinned Murphy, who is Irish, was profiled and deemed suspicious. During secondary screening, agents discovered Semtex concealed in the lining of her bag. Without knowing it, the former chambermaid had been given a bomb by her terrorist boyfriend, a Jordanian named Nizar Hindawi, who was not on the flight. Hindawi was the father of Murphy’s unborn child.
Is Israeli-Style Airport Security Coming to America? - International Analyst Network

Again, this is not about making parallels on illegals with terrorists. Just providing an example of how racial profiling isn't needed for a system to work.
 
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