About this Deaf Culture thing...

[drphil]

Not sure if this-High context or low context "thinking"- isn't ASL a "medium of transferring Ideas/thoughts etc from one person to another using agreed meaning of visual/facial/hand movements? Supposedly the "same thing" with spoken language>
In the end content is all.

Why communicate in the first place?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

 

[Bottesini]

Not sure if this" High context or low context "thinking"- isn't ASL a "medium of transferring Ideas/thoughts etc from one person to another using agreed meaning of visual/facial/hadn movements? Supposedly the "same thing" with spoken language>
In the end content is all.

Why communicate in the first place?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

Because we are compelled to. Humans are social creatures. You are still here and communicating well.

ASL is more expressive, but your writing does absolutely fine.

 

[flip]

That is because everything he comes up with is very low context logic oriented. It is a way of thinking many hearing people pride themselves on, and believe it is a very intelligent thing to do -- But it is a learned way of thinking, few people think that way naturally and Deaf Culture and ASL uses high context thinking.

The best way I know to explain the idiotcy of low context thinking is to take something I learned when I was first learning how to write fiction.

A reasonable person using high context thinking knows that when you look up you tilt your head back and roll your eyes upward so you can see the top of a building.

Thus to a high context person the sentence, "He raised his eyes to the roof of the building." makes perfect sense. A high context thinking person may even reply, "How else is he going to see what is on the roof of the building?"

However a low context thinker is horrified by the sentence. Why? To them you "raise" something by picking it up with your hands. You raise something to the roof by placing it on the roof with your hands. To a low context thinker logic dictates no other way of interpreting the sentence -- Thus a writer for the general public should NEVER use it. This type of thinking works because of the way the spoken word works and how words are defined.

ASL on the other hand allows you to take your two "F" handshapes, use them as your eyes looking all around the street -- Allows you to raise your hands that are established as your eyeballs up to the roof of the building that has already been placed there, and suddenly explode in surprise.

Totally appalling the low context, logic oriented, hearing person who does not see the same image we do.

Hopefully this will help you, maybe even him. Even though we are all writing English, drphil is using a different language than we are.

Isn't this simply called imagination and humor? You can do the same in ASL. Someone says something, and you find alternative interpretations, and people gets a laugh. Maybe I got you wrong, but you make it sounds like you can't play with alternative interpretations of something said in ASL.

Else, I find drpih dull and boring, and that's not because I don't understand him, but because even a child could come up with most of what drphil say.

 

[drphil]

Bottesini; You are correct that ASL as a Medium is "more expressive" than say speech/printed matter. Comes right back: how people one knows use ASL? That is reality,
Fair?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

 

[Bottesini]

Bottesini; You are correct that ASL as a Medium is "more expressive" than say speech/printed matter. Comes right back: how people one knows use ASL? That is reality,
Fair?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

Yes

 

[AlleyCat]

Bottesini; You are correct that ASL as a Medium is "more expressive" than say speech/printed matter. Comes right back: how people one knows use ASL? That is reality,
Fair?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

It doesn't matter how many people know it. You're right - the reality of how many know/use it is far smaller than the number who use speech/written language.

However, what matters is for those who do know ASL and/or want to use it, use it. It's their form of communication.

 

[Speedy Hawk]

Same here...don't really understand most of what he says

I am having same problem, that why I avoid answering him in case I misunderstand him.

 

[Speedy Hawk]

Thanks for that link, Speedy Hawk. The research has the same findings as the research I have seen from the States.

This is another reason that Deaf Ed needs to be specialized and not just putting a deaf child into a mainstream class with a terp. Of course, when I brought up cognitive differences in deaf students a while back, we had a poster get really angry and thought I was saying something degrading about deaf kids.:roll:

No problem. I finally out official website by accident. It got much more info on it. Imaging The Deaf Brain

Shame no See Hear being recorded and YouTube.

 

[Glenn]

I must admit, I do not understand much of what drphil says. Maybe it is me, but a lot of it makes no sense and is almost like gibberish for me.

I will refrain from saying anymore about him and will try my best to be more open minded and such.

I know what you mean. I stick to reading posts that make more sense. I'm not going to spend time trying to decipher posts that aren't clear.

 

[jillio]

That is because everything he comes up with is very low context logic oriented. It is a way of thinking many hearing people pride themselves on, and believe it is a very intelligent thing to do -- But it is a learned way of thinking, few people think that way naturally and Deaf Culture and ASL uses high context thinking.

The best way I know to explain the idiotcy of low context thinking is to take something I learned when I was first learning how to write fiction.

A reasonable person using high context thinking knows that when you look up you tilt your head back and roll your eyes upward so you can see the top of a building.

Thus to a high context person the sentence, "He raised his eyes to the roof of the building." makes perfect sense. A high context thinking person may even reply, "How else is he going to see what is on the roof of the building?"

However a low context thinker is horrified by the sentence. Why? To them you "raise" something by picking it up with your hands. You raise something to the roof by placing it on the roof with your hands. To a low context thinker logic dictates no other way of interpreting the sentence -- Thus a writer for the general public should NEVER use it. This type of thinking works because of the way the spoken word works and how words are defined.

ASL on the other hand allows you to take your two "F" handshapes, use them as your eyes looking all around the street -- Allows you to raise your hands that are established as your eyeballs up to the roof of the building that has already been placed there, and suddenly explode in surprise.

Totally appalling the low context, logic oriented, hearing person who does not see the same image we do.

Hopefully this will help you, maybe even him. Even though we are all writing English, drphil is using a different language than we are.

In practice, high context thinking demonstrates intelligence as it involves fluid intelligence and application. Low context thinking is generally believed to be limited, lacking in creativity, and closed minded.

Which goes right back to the anatomical differences in the brain, and differences in processing stimuli.

 

[jillio]

No problem. I finally out official website by accident. It got much more info on it. Imaging The Deaf Brain

Shame no See Hear being recorded and YouTube.

Thanks for that link, too!

 

[Berry]

Not sure if this-High context or low context "thinking"- isn't ASL a "medium of transferring Ideas/thoughts etc from one person to another using agreed meaning of visual/facial/hand movements? Supposedly the "same thing" with spoken language>

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

You are defining language. Context is a component of language and of culture. Some hearing cultures are very high context, French for instance are far higher context than Americans. Both are spoken languages.

Every language and every culture uses context differently.

Standard American ideal thinking is very low context while most Deaf Culture is high context.

In the end content is all.


Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

Typical of low context thinking. Everything has to be stated in the sentence.

In truth what is NOT said, or written, or put into the content of the message is often the most important part and what should be paid attention too -- Or so a high context thinker will tell you.

Ancient Chinese art (I don't know about modern Chines art) seems odd to most Americans because the MOST important part of the painting is always left out.

Lard has no sugar -- Therefore it is very healthy.

Sugar has no fat -- Therefore it is very healthy.

Just live on a diet of lard and sugar and you will be fine.

Why communicate in the first place?

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07

All living creatures display an overwhelming desire to communicate. Birds and bees do it. Elephants and whales do it. Every animal that interacts with human kind shows the desire to understand the human and to be understood by the human. I have seen this desire manifested in cats, dogs, horses, and pigs. If you own and love animals you know this is true.

 

[jillio]

You are defining language. Context is a component of language and of culture. Some hearing cultures are very high context, French for instance are far higher context than Americans. Both are spoken languages.

Every language and every culture uses context differently.

Standard American ideal thinking is very low context while most Deaf Culture is high context.





Typical of low context thinking. Everything has to be stated in the sentence.

In truth what is NOT said, or written, or put into the content of the message is often the most important part and what should be paid attention too -- Or so a high context thinker will tell you. Ancient Chinese art (I don't know about modern Chines art) seems odd to most Americans because the MOST important part of the painting is always left out.

Lard has no sugar -- Therefore it is very healthy.

Sugar has no fat -- Therefore it is very healthy.

Just live on a diet of lard and sugar and you will be fine.





All living creatures display an overwhelming desire to communicate. Birds and bees do it. Elephants and whales do it. Every animal that interacts with human kind shows the desire to understand the human and to be understood by the human. I have seen this desire manifested in cats, dogs, horses, and pigs. If you own and love animals you know this is true.

Absolutely. Which is why English is taught showing the difference between dictionary definitions and contextual definitions. It is why reading comprehension levels are assessed using ability to determine contextual definitions. Content is not the end all and be all. If one ignores contextual meaning, one consistently misunderstands that which one is reading.

 

[Glenn]

You are defining language. Context is a component of language and of culture. Some hearing cultures are very high context, French for instance are far higher context than Americans. Both are spoken languages.

Every language and every culture uses context differently.

Standard American ideal thinking is very low context while most Deaf Culture is high context.





Typical of low context thinking. Everything has to be stated in the sentence.

In truth what is NOT said, or written, or put into the content of the message is often the most important part and what should be paid attention too -- Or so a high context thinker will tell you.

Ancient Chinese art (I don't know about modern Chines art) seems odd to most Americans because the MOST important part of the painting is always left out.

Lard has no sugar -- Therefore it is very healthy.

Sugar has no fat -- Therefore it is very healthy.

Just live on a diet of lard and sugar and you will be fine.





All living creatures display an overwhelming desire to communicate. Birds and bees do it. Elephants and whales do it. Every animal that interacts with human kind shows the desire to understand the human and to be understood by the human. I have seen this desire manifested in cats, dogs, horses, and pigs. If you own and love animals you know this is true.

Very enlightening and thought-provoking.

 

[LoveBlue]

Every animal that interacts with human kind shows the desire to understand the human and to be understood by the human. I have seen this desire manifested in cats, dogs, horses, and pigs. If you own and love animals you know this is true.

My cat is communicating with me right now. And, yes, I know what he was saying. FEED ME! So, off to the kitchen I go.

 

[Glenn]

My cat is communicating with me right now. And, yes, I know what he was saying. FEED ME! So, off to the kitchen I go.

Meow.

 

[LoveBlue]

Meow.

He's not just vocal. He's visual and tactical with his requests for me to get up and feed him.

 

[sallylou]

Funny how well those furry creatures communicate.

If Dr. Phil is a cat man, he can't be all bad.

 

[Bottesini]

He's not just vocal. He's visual and tactical with his requests for me to get up and feed him.

Like an army planner?

 

[Berry]

That is because everything he comes up with is very low context logic oriented. It is a way of thinking many hearing people pride themselves on, and believe it is a very intelligent thing to do -- But it is a learned way of thinking, few people think that way naturally and Deaf Culture and ASL uses high context thinking.

The best way I know to explain the idiotcy of low context thinking is to take something I learned when I was first learning how to write fiction.

A reasonable person using high context thinking knows that when you look up you tilt your head back and roll your eyes upward so you can see the top of a building.

Thus to a high context person the sentence, "He raised his eyes to the roof of the building." makes perfect sense. A high context thinking person may even reply, "How else is he going to see what is on the roof of the building?"

However a low context thinker is horrified by the sentence. Why? To them you "raise" something by picking it up with your hands. You raise something to the roof by placing it on the roof with your hands. To a low context thinker logic dictates no other way of interpreting the sentence -- Thus a writer for the general public should NEVER use it. This type of thinking works because of the way the spoken word works and how words are defined.

ASL on the other hand allows you to take your two "F" handshapes, use them as your eyes looking all around the street -- Allows you to raise your hands that are established as your eyeballs up to the roof of the building that has already been placed there, and suddenly explode in surprise.

Totally appalling the low context, logic oriented, hearing person who does not see the same image we do.

Hopefully this will help you, maybe even him. Even though we are all writing English, drphil is using a different language than we are.

Isn't this simply called imagination and humor?

Imagination and humor have more to do with the individual although it is limited by what the language and the culture, subculture, will allow. If you say "That was the funnest time I ever had," someone in a group of hearing Americans will be sure to inform you, "Funnest is NOT a word."

In Spanish you say, "Todo el mundo" meaning "All the world" and you are only speaking about the three people sitting at the table everyone understands and agrees with what you just said. In English you can be speaking about 100 at a picnic and say, "Everyone had a great time," and have someone inform you, "I'm sure 'Everyone' wasn't at the picnic. There are a few billion people in China that weren't there, you know."

Isn't this simply called imagination and humor? You can do the same in ASL.

You can do it BETTER in ASL and it is more tolerated. Like the Navajos I knew when I was young, ASL'ers seem to enjoy playing with their language, whereas many English speaking Americans will tell you, "Puns are the lowest form of humor."

Maybe I got you wrong, but you make it sounds like you can't play with alternative interpretations of something said in ASL.

You definitely got my meaning wrong there, my friend.

Else, I find drpih dull and boring, and that's not because I don't understand him, but because even a child could come up with most of what drphil say.

Low context thinking often seems one dimensional to high context thinkers while high context thinkers seem obtuse and unable to get "the point" to low context thinkers.

And I am NOT saying low context thinking does not have its uses, it does. And I can do it. It is simply not my preferred form. And as far as reasoning goes I believe its uses are limited.