A woman's right?

[Hear Again]

I've seen that movie. I thought that it was way too sugar coated. Things are much harder for teen moms then what they showed.

...as are most "made for tv movies." because of that, i don't take any stock in them since they aren't realistic.

 

[Byrdie714]

Didn't mean to overlook your post, Byrdie, just got caught up in other things. First of all, you should know better than to try to use one specific case as a basis for an argument. I'll say it again, both sides of this issue are "manipulative" and try to play on people's emotions. This is no different.

Secondly, I'm not sure what this is even an argument for. I've presented data showing that teenagers are not the age group with the highest number of abortions. Abortion Statistics - By Age. Look down the line, and the 20-24 years is a bigger percentage. Unless you are arguing that teenage mothers shouldn't be allowed to have their babies, I'm a little confused.

Also, you should read this paper. Risk Factors for Unintentional Injuries in Children: Are Grandparents Protective? -- Bishai et al. 122 (5): e980 -- Pediatrics It's a whole study done on the causes of unintentional injuries to children. They find that one of the most important factors is having the grandparents help as caregivers. First of all, this quote is important, "In contrast, we found that mothers who were older than 40 years had lower odds for children with an injury, but we did not find that younger or adolescent mothers had a significantly higher odds for injury among their children." But I also think it would be interesting to look at the number of teenage parents who receive help from their parents (most of the ones I know of do) which would actually make those households safer for children.

Yes, this is an awful story, but you are attempting to use it in a misleading and manipulative way. I don't see how this is directly related to the issue at hand.

Welcome to politics honey!

I'm not suprised that you don't see how the issue is related to this topic as it bears to show that teenagers and pregnancy don't mix and that teenagers should have the option to have abortions to prevent episodes of this tragedy.

Which, unfortunately, is becoming more common.

Secondly--you can't limit the scope of the discussion without including ALL aspects of the topic.

We have discussed quite a bit on this thread and we also have to include this tragedy as well. To limit it--just shows unwillingness on the opposite view to admit to it.

 

[lsfoster]

Welcome to politics honey!

I'm not suprised that you don't see how the issue is related to this topic as it bears to show that teenagers and pregnancy don't mix and that teenagers should have the option to have abortions to prevent episodes of this tragedy.

Which, unfortunately, is becoming more common.

Secondly--you can't limit the scope of the discussion without including ALL aspects of the topic.

We have discussed quite a bit on this thread and we also have to include this tragedy as well. To limit it--just shows unwillingness on the opposite view to admit to it.

Did I not admit anything? I said it was a specific case, which does not accurately represent the majority of cases, and provided data to support that. Unless you can provide data that clearly shows how an abortion would have affected this situation, you're basing your argument on fiction. The fact is that she could have gotten an abortion currently, and this still happened. And to say that "teenagers and pregnancy don't mix" is kind of hasty generalization, again presented without any evidence. It also isn't what you're arguing. Based on your argument, it would make just as much sense to say that there should be mandatory abortions for teenagers.

I'm not saying I don't see how teenage pregnancy relates to the topic of abortion. I'm saying that I don't see how this specific incident relates in any way other than an attempt to appeal to people's emotions and manipulate them. You didn't tie it into the discussion in any meaningful way.

 

[jillio]

Ok, I'm just going to chalk this up as another example of you assuming something and then it becoming "fact", and you just being hypocritical in general. I avoided the answer by stating where my knowledge would come from? And yet all the places where I have pointed out flaws in your data and links and your response was to tell me to "go look at your links" weren't an example of you avoiding anything? Fair enough.

I took a methods course last semester, and I am taking a methods and writing course this semester. Both of them have covered not only methods but analysis and statistics, and I'm also specializing in physical chemistry, so I'm currently taking a stat mech course. It might not be exactly the same, but it deals with a lot of statistics and analysis of data, averages, and how accurate those numbers are, just in the context of physical chemistry.

Once again, jillio, I have given my evidence and supported it. I'd find it less hypocritical if instead of simply asking me to prove my side, you also proved yours. So instead of statements like, "What courses have you taken in.....?" try ones like, "Well I've taken x, y, and z courses in these topics, what about you?"

As have I. You simply fail to recognize it.

 

[jillio]

Did I not admit anything? I said it was a specific case, which does not accurately represent the majority of cases, and provided data to support that. Unless you can provide data that clearly shows how an abortion would have affected this situation, you're basing your argument on fiction. The fact is that she could have gotten an abortion currently, and this still happened. And to say that "teenagers and pregnancy don't mix" is kind of hasty generalization, again presented without any evidence. It also isn't what you're arguing. Based on your argument, it would make just as much sense to say that there should be mandatory abortions for teenagers.

I'm not saying I don't see how teenage pregnancy relates to the topic of abortion. I'm saying that I don't see how this specific incident relates in any way other than an attempt to appeal to people's emotions and manipulate them. You didn't tie it into the discussion in any meaningful way.

The data has already been provided to indicate that Byrdie's example is simply one specific example of the findings for the majority.

If you don't see how teen aged pregnancy relates to the topic of abortion, you are seriously lacking in fluid thinking.

 

[Cheri]

I'm not suprised that you don't see how the issue is related to this topic as it bears to show that teenagers and pregnancy don't mix and that teenagers should have the option to have abortions to prevent episodes of this tragedy.

One news article does not apply to the entire young generation. Because from what I remembered FBI statistics show that women committed only two crimes as frequently as men. One of them are the murder of their own children. Adrea Yates wasn't a teen mother, either was Susan Smith. Most cases where the mother suffering from postpartum depression mostly likely would kill their own children. What about the fathers who had killed their own children? Should we take rights away from fathers? From what it seems to me you're trying to take most of the rights from teenagers, by saying they should have had an abortion to prevent tragedies.

 

[jillio]

One news article does not apply to the entire young generation. Because from what I remembered FBI statistics show that women committed only two crimes as frequently as men. One of them are the murder of their own children. Adrea Yates wasn't a teen mother, either was Susan Smith. Most cases where the mother suffering from postpartum depression mostly likely would kill their own children. What about the fathers who had killed their own children? Should we take rights away from fathers? From what it seems to me you're trying to take most of the rights from teenagers, by saying they should have an abortion to prevent tragedies.

Nor does one movie made for TV entertainment show anything about the reality of the situation. News articles are fact, and are examples of what the statistics already show.

And, teen agers don't have rights. That is why either a parent, guardian, or guardian ad litem must speak for them in legal matters such as abortion.

 

[Cheri]

Jillio- One news article does not show the statistics of all the young generalization. One person did the act of murder does not apply to all. End of the discussion.

 

[jillio]

Jillio- One news article does not show the statistics of all the young generalization. One person did the act of murder does not apply to all. End of the discussion.

That is what you are failing to understand, Cheri. The statistics have already been supplied in this thread, from two separate sources. The news article simply supports the statistics. It is a real life example of what the statistics report.

If you need more than one example to support the statistics, Google is your friend. The newspapers are full of examples.

 

[shel90]

Jillio- One news article does not show the statistics of all the young generalization. One person did the act of murder does not apply to all. End of the discussion.

I guess you chose to ignore my post about my hubby's cousins, who as teeanagers, birthed children with drugs in their system (both mothers' and babies')?

That's another example along with the thousands of examples out there in which children were born to lives of poverty, drugs, crime, abuse, homelessness, and more because their teenaged parents didn't have the maturity, knowledge, financial means, and selfishlessness to raise them in happy and productive households.

Sure, there r a few successful and sweet-ending stories of teenaged pregnancies out there but they are very rare.

With the economy being so bad, I am sure programs to help teenaged parents are being cut back to reduce spending and that is going to further aggravate the severity of the problems associated with teenaged pregnancies.

I don't think discussion about this will never come to an end. Maybe for u, but for others especially those who r in these kinds of situations, it probably won't.

 

[Cheri]

That is what you are failing to understand, Cheri. The statistics have already been supplied in this thread, from two separate sources. The news article simply supports the statistics. It is a real life example of what the statistics report.

If you need more than one example to support the statistics, Google is your friend. The newspapers are full of examples.

No, You failed to see that not only teenagers kill their children, adults mothers/fathers also had killed their children too, I'll listed a few.

Patricia Blackmon was 29 years old when she killed her 2-year-old adopted daughter in Dothan, AL in May 1999.

Kenisha Berry at age 20, covered her 4-day-old son with duct tape resulting in his death.

Debra Jean Milke was 25 when she killed her 4-year-old son in Arizona in 1989.

Dora Luz Durenrostro killed her two daughters, age 4 and 9, and her son, age 8, when she was 34 years old in San Jacinto, California in 1994.

Caro Socorro was 42 years old when she killed her three sons, ages 5, 8 and 11, in Santa Rosa Valley, California in 1999.

Susan Eubanks murdered her four sons, ages 4, 6, 7 and 14, in San Marcos, California, in 1996 when she was 33.

Caroline Young was 49 in Haywood, California when she killed her 4-year-old granddaughter and 6-year-old grandson.

Robin Lee Row was 35 years old when she killed her husband, her 10-year-old son and her 8-year-old daughter in Boise, Idaho in 1992.

Michelle Sue Tharp was 29 years old in Burgettstown, Pennsylvania when she killed her 7-year-old daughter.

Should I go on???

 

[jillio]

I guess you chose to ignore my post about my hubby's cousins, who as teeanagers, birthed children with drugs in their system (both mothers' and babies')?

That's another example along with the thousands of examples out there in which children were born to lives of poverty, drugs, crime, abuse, homelessness, and more because their teenaged parents didn't have the maturity, knowledge, financial means, and selfishlessness to raise them in happy and productive households.

Sure, there r a few successful and sweet-ending stories of teenaged pregnancies out there but they are very rare.

With the economy being so bad, I am sure programs to help teenaged parents are being cut back to reduce spending and that is going to further aggravate the severity of the problems associated with teenaged pregnancies.

I don't think discussion about this will never come to an end. Maybe for u, but for others especially those who r in these kinds of situations, it probably won't.

Remember the "hear no evil, see no evil" monkeys? If we just don't say its there, its not there. Shh...don't say anything, and then no one will know about the evil. We can just pretend that the world is all candy and rainbows.

 

[Cheri]

I guess you chose to ignore my post about my hubby's cousins, who as teeanagers, birthed children with drugs in their system (both mothers' and babies')?

I did not ignored your post, I don't read every post on this thread, excuse me for having a life outside of AD. What post number was it? I'll go back and read it.

 

[shel90]

I did not ignored your post, I don't read every post on this thread, excuse me for having a life outside of AD. What post number was it? I'll go back and read it.

#355


About those who came out unscathed from teenaged pregnancies, I am one of the fortunate ones. My mom was barely 18 when she had me and I am very very thankful for my lucky stars that I didnt fall under the majority of kids of teenaged pregnancies who ended up with all the mentioned problems. However, I know that I am in the minority. If my mom was living on the streets high on crack or in an abusive home, or was raped by her father or someone and got pregnant with me, I wouldnt blame her for aborting me cuz I sure wouldnt want to grow up living a life of extreme poverty, around drugs, abuse, crime, and etc.

 

[shel90]

No, You failed to see that not only teenagers kill their children, adults mothers/fathers also had killed their children too, I'll listed a few.

Patricia Blackmon was 29 years old when she killed her 2-year-old adopted daughter in Dothan, AL in May 1999.

Kenisha Berry at age 20, covered her 4-day-old son with duct tape resulting in his death.

Debra Jean Milke was 25 when she killed her 4-year-old son in Arizona in 1989.

Dora Luz Durenrostro killed her two daughters, age 4 and 9, and her son, age 8, when she was 34 years old in San Jacinto, California in 1994.

Caro Socorro was 42 years old when she killed her three sons, ages 5, 8 and 11, in Santa Rosa Valley, California in 1999.

Susan Eubanks murdered her four sons, ages 4, 6, 7 and 14, in San Marcos, California, in 1996 when she was 33.

Caroline Young was 49 in Haywood, California when she killed her 4-year-old granddaughter and 6-year-old grandson.

Robin Lee Row was 35 years old when she killed her husband, her 10-year-old son and her 8-year-old daughter in Boise, Idaho in 1992.

Michelle Sue Tharp was 29 years old in Burgettstown, Pennsylvania when she killed her 7-year-old daughter.

Should I go on???

Yes, there are adults who kill their children and it is always going to be tragic.

 

[jillio]

Yes, there are adults who kill their children and it is always going to be tragic.

Exactly. What kind of logic is "adults do it too!"? So because adults do it, we should ignore the incidents that happen with teenaged parents?

 

[Cheri]

In my husband's family, a few of his teenaged cousins who were and still are drug addicts had their babies and their children were so neglected so if a movie was made about them, it would be horrific. I have seen firsthand what happens to children who are born to people who are drug addicts and it is NOT a feel good situation.

Of course it would be horrific. But, on the other hand there are some adult parents who are drug addicts also. Some parents are just not meant to be parents. It's the truth.

If I were your husband, I would report the cousins. He'll save those children's life.

 

[shel90]

Of course it would be horrific. But, on the other hand there are some adult parents who are drug addicts also. Some parents are just not meant to be parents. It's the truth.

Then by that statement, we should keep abortion legal if there are so many people out there who arent fit to be parents. Why force them to carry the pregnancy to full term if they dont want it?

 

[jillio]

Then by that statement, we should keep abortion legal if there are so many people out there who arent fit to be parents. Why force them to carry the pregnancy to full term if they dont want it?

And, put the children through all of that misery and trauma?

 

[Jiro]

Exactly. What kind of logic is "adults do it too!"? So because adults do it, we should ignore the incidents that happen with teenaged parents?

exactly... a 12 years old kid smoking 1 pack a day is as alarming as adult doing same? methinks not...