A woman's right?

Were you ever presurized into having an abortion?

  • Yes I was presurized by my boyfriend.

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • Yes I was presurized by my family.

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • Yes, I was presurized by friends, the family planning or other sources.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I felt presurized into aborting but I went ahead and had the baby.

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • When I had my unplanned pregnancy everyone supported my choice to have the baby.

    Votes: 7 43.8%
  • No, but I wasnt that keen on keeping my baby but felt I had to as everyone I know is Pro life.

    Votes: 2 12.5%
  • I have had an abortion but it was entirely my own choice.

    Votes: 2 12.5%

  • Total voters
    16
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Here is some important information about teen pregnancy:

More than ten percent of all U.S. births in 2004 were to mothers under age 20 (1). Most teenage births (about 67 percent) are to girls ages 18 and 19 (1).
More than 750,000 teenagers become pregnant each year, and about 420,000 give birth (1, 3).
About 3 in 10 teenage girls become pregnant at least once before age 20 (2).
The teenage birth rate is declining. Between 1991 and 2004, the rate fell by one-third (from 61.8 per 1,000 women to 41.1) (1). Still, in 2004 (the most recent year for which data are available), about 4 teenage girls in 100 had a baby.
Between 22 and 30 percent of teen mothers under age 18 have a second baby within two years after the birth of their first baby (2).
Teen mothers are more likely than mothers over age 20 to give birth prematurely (before 37 completed weeks of pregnancy). Between 2002 and 2004, preterm birth rates averaged 14.3 percent for women under age 20 compared to 11.7 percent for women ages 20 to 29 (4). Babies born too soon face an increased risk of newborn health problems, long-term disabilities and even death.


What are the health risks to babies of teen mothers?
A baby born to a teenage mother is at higher risk for certain serious problems and death than a baby born to an older mother. Babies of teenage mothers are more likely to die in the first year of life than babies of women in their twenties and thirties. The risk is highest for babies of the mothers under age 15. In 2004, 17.1 out of every 1,000 babies of women under age 15 died, compared to 6.8 per 1,000 for babies of women of all ages (10). In 2004, 9.9 percent of mothers ages 15 to 19 years had a low-birthweight baby, compared to 8.1 percent for mothers of all ages. The risk is higher for younger mothers (1):

11.6 percent of 15-year-old mothers had a low-birthweight baby in 2004; 18,274 babies were born to girls this age, with 2,124 of low birthweight
9.4 percent of women aged 19 had a low-birthweight baby in 2004; 164,045 babies were born to these women, with 15,376 of low birthweight
Low-birthweight babies may have organs that are not fully developed. This can lead to lung problems, such as respiratory distress syndrome, bleeding in the brain, vision loss and serious intestinal problems.

Very low-birthweight babies (less than 3 1/3 pounds) are nearly 100 times as likely to die, and moderately low-birthweight babies (between 3 1/3 and 5½ pounds) are more than 5 times as likely to die in their first year of life than normal-weight babies (1).

What are other consequences of teenage pregnancy?
Life may be difficult for a teenage mother and her child. Teen mothers are more likely to drop out of high school than girls who delay childbearing. Only 40 percent of teenagers who have children before age 18 go on to graduate from high school, compared to 75 percent of teens from similar social and economic backgrounds who do not give birth until ages 20 or 21 (2).

With her education cut short, a teenage mother may lack job skills, making it hard for her to find and keep a job. A teenage mother may become financially dependent on her family or on public assistance. Teen mothers are more likely to live in poverty than women who delay childbearing, and more than 75 percent of all unmarried teen mothers go on welfare within five years of the birth of their first child (2).

About 78 percent of children born to an unmarried teenage high-school dropout live in poverty, compared to 9 percent of children born to women over age 20 who are married and high school graduates (11). A child born to a teenage mother is 50 percent more likely to repeat a grade in school and is more likely to perform poorly on standardized tests and drop out before finishing high school (2).

Teenage Pregnancy - March of Dimes

Let's look at the facts, not at a movie that makes us feel good.
 
I'm not even talking about your "hard data" on post number 227, I'm talking about your respond on how the movie wouldn't be a good movie, when the movie almost shows everything you stated on post 227.

Again you judged something you haven't seen, it's like judging a book by it's cover. :roll:

I don't need to see a feel good movie to understand the realities of teen aged pregnancy.

So, tell me, do you think that a movie based on the facts of teen aged pregnancy would make good entertainment? Babies dying due to lack of prenatal care and low birthweight? Teen mothers dying from birth complications? Children growing up in poverty without sufficient food, clothing, medical care, supervision, and love? Teen parents responsible for the murder of their child because they are completely unprepared to parent? How about we do a movie that depicts a teen parent shaking a baby that won't quit crying, and then we follow that baby to the ER, and watch as it is put on life support never to recover and die?

Would you consider that to be a good movie?
 
I don't need to see a feel good movie to understand the realities of teen aged pregnancy.

So, tell me, do you think that a movie based on the facts of teen aged pregnancy would make good entertainment? Babies dying due to lack of prenatal care and low birthweight? Teen mothers dying from birth complications? Children growing up in poverty without sufficient food, clothing, medical care, supervision, and love? Teen parents responsible for the murder of their child because they are completely unprepared to parent? How about we do a movie that depicts a teen parent shaking a baby that won't quit crying, and then we follow that baby to the ER, and watch as it is put on life support never to recover and die?

Would you consider that to be a good movie?

Don't forget post # 287.....
 
Yup, I'm not surprised about teen pregnancy, most of them fails to learn a hard lesson about pregnancy and don't use sex protection to sex with other teens and some young adults, I wish that teens need know about sex related stuff and should be teach at school to prevent any unwanted pregnant and increase of abortions.

I have agree with jillio, most teen parents are fail to make responsible with care of babies, I prefer to keep Roe v. Wade for many reason and some parents are forced teen girls to have abortion and learn a hard lesson, I think teens need more parent care as child does.
 
I am pro choice.
There is a lot of unwanted pregnancy. If abortion or partial abortion becomes illegal
The mother for example is a drug addict that is in a mental state that she does not even care for her health or well being even if she knows she is pregnant. She should be allowed to have an abortion. To me that is being concerned for the baby's quality of life due to the damage the mother has done while the fetus was inside by the drug use of the junkie.
 
Don't forget post # 287.....

Yes, shall we make a movie of little Skylar's death at the hands of teen aged parents? Do you suppose we could get support from the Hallmark channel for that one?
 
For me--it's not a baby until it's born.

It isn't born yet and therefore is considred a parasite feeding off the host.

(Gee---didn't we have this discussion before?! :roll: )

Perhaps it is because mine can be backed up with medical, scientific, and sociologically valid data. It isn't that my views are fact, it is that my views are based on fact rather than emotion and myth. Please see the post that provides such for the post to which you have chosen to reply. Attempting to discount such information through personal insult does nothing to add credibility to your case. If you have credible information that supports the view that teen aged pregnancy is not a huge problem for mother, child, and society as a whole, please do provide that.

You have yet to provide and support for the page you provided. I think it's extremely hypocritical for you to immediately discount any link I provide, when they clearly state their sources and methods of analysis, but any link or data you happen to state is "backed up with sociologically founded data". You haven't yet proven that anything you said wasn't just made up at random. Just because you like your "facts" does not automatically make them true.

Byrdie is well informed regarding this issue. Nor has he ever claimed that a viable fetus is not a baby. You continue to cross the line between embryo and viability, as if you can automatically assume that an embryo at 12 weeks gestation is at the same developmental stage and capable of survival as is a viable fetus at 30 weeks gestation. The fact that you continue to confuse the two issues is indication of the emotional argument you are attempting to employ. Why is it that you insist on bringing up the topic of partial birth abortion? Partial birth abortion, which by the way, is a term coined by the anti-abortion crowd to add an emotional element to a medical procedure, and not a medical term, is an outlawed procedure. It is not performed at any stage of pregnancy, and was never performed for first trimester, elective abortion. In fact, it was only ever performed in the case of a medically necessary abortion determined necessary to either save a mother's life or in the case that a fetus was determined to be incompatible with life.

Please see the quotes above for where Byrdie has clearly stated that a viable fetus is not a baby. Also, please present anywhere in this thread where I have ever mentioned a 12 week old fetus as a viable baby (although thank you for so nicely putting words in my mouth). And I did not "insist" on bringing the topic up, you misconstrued my posts, so I clarified. And I've already explained that it isn't a misleading name for the procedure. They partially birth the baby, then abort it. I have also already presented the data to prove you wrong about why they were performed, and you have yet to show anything that says otherwise.

I am not manipulating anything. I am pointing out the fact that you do not have all of the information necessary to use said data to support your claim.

Again, I think you're putting words in my mouth. What claim? I suggested to Byrdie that he should google something and form his own conclusions. You're the one that then started making claims about what images I was referring to and what they represented.

You have presented nothing of the kind, as you have no access to the medical records necessary to do so. Once again, you are simply making assumtption based on an emotional reaction, and it, in reality, has absolutely nothing to do with fact.

They clearly state where they got their data. If you have a problem, take it up with them. You seem to trust the data that you find without question, though, so I find it a little odd that you have a hard time with numbers that are much more sourced and explained.

Just because I can support what I say with hard data doesn't mean I am manipulating, Cheri. It means that I have the hard data to support what I say, and you are relying on a movie that was made for entertainment purposes.

That is the problem, Cheri. It is a movie. Try relying on fact for a change, instead of some feel good, fictionalized account meant to do nothing more than evoke a little emotion in a 2 hour span.

Jillio, you have a tendency to either not provide a link for your "facts", or to provide a link that has no source for where it is getting its data. Unless we are deciding to define "fact" as "having come from Jillio", you really can't support that claim.

Also, for someone who is so concerned about "manipulation", I'm surprised to see you posting links with quotes like this, "About 78 percent of children born to an unmarried teenage high-school dropout live in poverty, compared to 9 percent of children born to women over age 20 who are married and high school graduates." You don't see anything that might "selective" in comparing three totally separate characteristics together? Yeah, a page that provides detailed explanations of where, how, and when it got it's numbers, along with the possible error and how they handled that fact is way more suspect that a site that takes whatever data fits its purpose and presents it in a misleading and selective fashion. :roll:
 
Jillio, you have a tendency to either not provide a link for your "facts", or to provide a link that has no source for where it is getting its data. Unless we are deciding to define "fact" as "having come from Jillio", you really can't support that claim.

Also, for someone who is so concerned about "manipulation", I'm surprised to see you posting links with quotes like this, "About 78 percent of children born to an unmarried teenage high-school dropout live in poverty, compared to 9 percent of children born to women over age 20 who are married and high school graduates." You don't see anything that might "selective" in comparing three totally separate characteristics together? Yeah, a page that provides detailed explanations of where, how, and when it got it's numbers, along with the possible error and how they handled that fact is way more suspect that a site that takes whatever data fits its purpose and presents it in a misleading and selective fashion. :roll:

Sweetie, my links are all posted above. More than one of them. All you have to do is look.

And let me answer your question with a question: how many research methodology and statistics courses have you taken and at what level?
 
Yes, shall we make a movie of little Skylar's death at the hands of teen aged parents? Do you suppose we could get support from the Hallmark channel for that one?

They've supported other unrealistic, piece of shit "feel good" movies before.

I'd rather see a movie on the REALITY of teen pregnancy vs the fantasy.
 
They've supported other unrealistic, piece of shit "feel good" movies before.

I'd rather see a movie on the REALITY of teen pregnancy vs the fantasy.

The movie I said on this thread wasn't a pieces of shit or unrealistic. It amazing me how people easy judge without even seeing the movie first hand, how pathetic.
 
The movie I said on this thread wasn't a pieces of shit or unrealistic. It amazing me how people easy judge without even seeing the movie first hand, how pathetic.

I've seen that movie. I thought that it was way too sugar coated. Things are much harder for teen moms then what they showed.
 
Cheri,

Abortion is something that you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on. I support a woman's choice to do what she wants with her body.
 
They've supported other unrealistic, piece of shit "feel good" movies before.

I'd rather see a movie on the REALITY of teen pregnancy vs the fantasy.

It would certainly have more impact and open people's eyes to the reality instead of enabling them to live in that comfy fantasy world.
 
Sweetie, my links are all posted above. More than one of them. All you have to do is look.

And let me answer your question with a question: how many research methodology and statistics courses have you taken and at what level?

And all you have to do is look to see where I've pointed out the ones that have no sources mentioned on them, or the see where I've mentioned posts where you don't provide links.

And I'm currently getting my Ph.D in chemistry. I think I might know a little bit about research methods and accurately portraying data. :cool2:
 
I am pro choice.
There is a lot of unwanted pregnancy. If abortion or partial abortion becomes illegal
The mother for example is a drug addict that is in a mental state that she does not even care for her health or well being even if she knows she is pregnant. She should be allowed to have an abortion. To me that is being concerned for the baby's quality of life due to the damage the mother has done while the fetus was inside by the drug use of the junkie.

In my husband's family, a few of his teenaged cousins who were and still are drug addicts had their babies and their children were so neglected so if a movie was made about them, it would be horrific. I have seen firsthand what happens to children who are born to people who are drug addicts and it is NOT a feel good situation.
 
The movie I said on this thread wasn't a pieces of shit or unrealistic. It amazing me how people easy judge without even seeing the movie first hand, how pathetic.

Oh really? So all of the people who didnt agree with the movie never saw it before? Ah, I see.
 
And all you have to do is look to see where I've pointed out the ones that have no sources mentioned on them, or the see where I've mentioned posts where you don't provide links.

And I'm currently getting my Ph.D in chemistry. I think I might know a little bit about research methods and accurately portraying data. :cool2:

Avoiding the question? Let's see, first year grad student, either 1 quarter or 1 semester into the year, that would be, let's see, no methods or stats courses yet, huh? 501 methods should be in your second quarter or semester schedule.
 
Avoiding the question? Let's see, first year grad student, either 1 quarter or 1 semester into the year, that would be, let's see, no methods or stats courses yet, huh? 501 methods should be in your second quarter or semester schedule.

Ok, I'm just going to chalk this up as another example of you assuming something and then it becoming "fact", and you just being hypocritical in general. I avoided the answer by stating where my knowledge would come from? And yet all the places where I have pointed out flaws in your data and links and your response was to tell me to "go look at your links" weren't an example of you avoiding anything? Fair enough.

I took a methods course last semester, and I am taking a methods and writing course this semester. Both of them have covered not only methods but analysis and statistics, and I'm also specializing in physical chemistry, so I'm currently taking a stat mech course. It might not be exactly the same, but it deals with a lot of statistics and analysis of data, averages, and how accurate those numbers are, just in the context of physical chemistry.

Once again, jillio, I have given my evidence and supported it. I'd find it less hypocritical if instead of simply asking me to prove my side, you also proved yours. So instead of statements like, "What courses have you taken in.....?" try ones like, "Well I've taken x, y, and z courses in these topics, what about you?"
 
I noticed my post seemed to "disappear".

So I am going to repeat myself again....

Amazingly that none of the pro-lifers in here have said anything about post #287. A teenage parent that ended up in jail for waking up their baby to play with them thus killing the child.

The silence from the pro-lifers speaks volumes.

They are glorifying the movie of teenage pregnancy but can't face reality when a 3 month old is murdered by a 17 year old parent.....:roll:
 
I noticed my post seemed to "disappear".

So I am going to repeat myself again....

Amazingly that none of the pro-lifers in here have said anything about post #287. A teenage parent that ended up in jail for waking up their baby to play with them thus killing the child.

The silence from the pro-lifers speaks volumes.

They are glorifying the movie of teenage pregnancy but can't face reality when a 3 month old is murdered by a 17 year old parent.....:roll:

Didn't mean to overlook your post, Byrdie, just got caught up in other things. First of all, you should know better than to try to use one specific case as a basis for an argument. I'll say it again, both sides of this issue are "manipulative" and try to play on people's emotions. This is no different.

Secondly, I'm not sure what this is even an argument for. I've presented data showing that teenagers are not the age group with the highest number of abortions. Abortion Statistics - By Age. Look down the line, and the 20-24 years is a bigger percentage. Unless you are arguing that teenage mothers shouldn't be allowed to have their babies, I'm a little confused.

Also, you should read this paper. Risk Factors for Unintentional Injuries in Children: Are Grandparents Protective? -- Bishai et al. 122 (5): e980 -- Pediatrics It's a whole study done on the causes of unintentional injuries to children. They find that one of the most important factors is having the grandparents help as caregivers. First of all, this quote is important, "In contrast, we found that mothers who were older than 40 years had lower odds for children with an injury, but we did not find that younger or adolescent mothers had a significantly higher odds for injury among their children." But I also think it would be interesting to look at the number of teenage parents who receive help from their parents (most of the ones I know of do) which would actually make those households safer for children.

Yes, this is an awful story, but you are attempting to use it in a misleading and manipulative way. I don't see how this is directly related to the issue at hand.
 
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