a Deaf view on CI -- video

[shel90]

Oh, NO, Shel.
oh NO.

You seem not to be reading everything carefully, or you "miss" the point on purpose.

here's what Rick wrote:



and here's then FULL STORY you seemed to miss:


THIS KIND of DEAF CULTURE is what Rick's daughter is NOT interested in.
She IS interested in Deaf Culture otherwise.


Don't tell me there is no problem with understanding standard written English on this forum. YOU didn't get the meaning of what Rick's wrote (did you do it on purpose??). And you are one of those who seemingly have a pretty good graps of standard English. perhaps it's not so. If you don't get, I can only imagine how hopelessly others misunderstand.

btw this is the second time when the meaning of the words is misconstrued here in so short time. The other is about "bastion".



Fuzzy

Oh brother..he said deaf community and in old posts he has stated the oral deaf community and he said that his daughter is not interested in the Deaf community. There is no other deaf community..just either the oral or the signing ones. That is exactly what I am referring to.

U do not do your thinking for me so u cant tell me what I read or misread. I will decide that for myself and if I did, I will state it here.

 

[shel90]

Rick I can not help but notice how some pple who theoretically call themselves "neutral" or "pro -" CI, are in fact very negative about it, and will manipulate all information without mercy to make great achievements of implanted children look poorly.

I agree with you - it's transparent. And I could see it on my own from the very first day here.

Fuzzy

Oh whooopie de do! You have skills..I am so impressed! :roll:

U really have no idea who I am or my views on CIs. The CI is not the issue and that has been repeated many times. I guess I will still keep repeating it for eons.

 

[shel90]

He has shared the infpormation regarding his daughter's sign abilities, Fuzzy. Perhaps you were unable to comprehend his post. No matter, you are once again making assumptions without having full knowledge of that which you attempt to speak.

My pants are not in a wad about anything. You are the one that sems to get so upset when you are given an example of a deaf individual who has achieved success both academically and personally without a CI.


What do you mean you don't have time to research? Is that why you demonstrate such a lack of understanding in yopur posts. Perhaps you should find the time to do a little research. It would certainly make your opinions more credible if you knew what the hell ytou were talking about.

And, as far as your "wiondow of opportunity" theory goes, again you are assuming that it applies only to oral language. The window of opportunity applies to sign as well, and that is why research has shoen that children who have been exposed to sign early on, despite their oral skills, perform more equally to hearing peers on all levels of language testing, literacy, and academic performance.

Obvioulsy, you think that oral skills are the most important thing in a deaf child. I, opn the other hand, see oral skills as useful, but see language acquisition as the important thing, because oral skills will do nothing to facilitate academic and person achievement if a child is language delayed from being placed in restrictive environment. I prefer to see a deaf child with superior language skills and lesser oral skills for just that reason. The important thing is not how they communicate, but that they are able to communicate. Communication and language acquisition are necessary for the development of cognitive skills.

Yep, that is my view too but I guess their view is the better the oral skills the better of the deaf person is.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

He has shared the infpormation regarding his daughter's sign abilities, Fuzzy. Perhaps you were unable to comprehend his post. No matter, you are once again making assumptions without having full knowledge of that which you attempt to speak.

My pants are not in a wad about anything. You are the one that sems to get so upset when you are given an example of a deaf individual who has achieved success both academically and personally without a CI.


What do you mean you don't have time to research? Is that why you demonstrate such a lack of understanding in yopur posts. Perhaps you should find the time to do a little research. It would certainly make your opinions more credible if you knew what the hell ytou were talking about.

no, I just find YOU irrelevant so I won't waste my research time on you. unless it's closely relevant to the topic.

And, as far as your "wiondow of opportunity" theory goes, again you are assuming that it applies only to oral language. The window of opportunity applies to sign as well, and that is why research has shoen that children who have been exposed to sign early on, despite their oral skills, perform more equally to hearing peers on all levels of language testing, literacy, and academic performance.

Obvioulsy, you think that oral skills are the most important thing in a deaf child. I, opn the other hand, see oral skills as useful, but see language acquisition as the important thing, because oral skills will do nothing to facilitate academic and person achievement if a child is language delayed from being placed in restrictive environment. I prefer to see a deaf child with superior language skills and lesser oral skills for just that reason. The important thing is not how they communicate, but that they are able to communicate. Communication and language acquisition are necessary for the development of cognitive skills.

yes, that's the whole point- Rick (and many other) has shared an information which was twisted and misconstrued again and again. Even now.
I am fully aware why- to make him look incompetent and his daughter accomplishments as unsatisfactory.

The truth is, again, those who has their own agenda will do everything to make CI children and their parents look inferior to those who went the "deaf way".

the bottom line is - the parent has right to chose, and it doesn't have to be the deaf way. the deaf pple must learn to accept that, and that the parents of born deaf children will want to opt for CI.

The irony is - it's exactly people like YOU jill who put these parents off the deaf community. Any parents who reads yours opinions, your bashigns, your belittlings,
or who see how an innocent word is turned into something it is not for self - servicing theory will only congratulate himself to save his child from such a petty, little, narrow world. It's exactly pple like YOU jill who cause these parents to turn their back on Deaf Culture.


And the proof - the last parent of CI child -Cloggy- finally left AD.



Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Oh whooopie de do! You have skills..I am so impressed! :roll:

U really have no idea who I am or my views on CIs. The CI is not the issue and that has been repeated many times. I guess I will still keep repeating it for eons.

Then please explain to me why every time the CI and children are mentioned you always come up with ""hmmm I have nothing against CI but these CI children's oral skills suck".
If CI weren't the issue you would say "CI helps being oral but not if proper therapy afterwards is not provided" or something like that.

Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

And, as far as your "wiondow of opportunity" theory goes, again you are assuming that it applies only to oral language. The window of opportunity applies to sign as well, and that is why research has shoen that children who have been exposed to sign early on, despite their oral skills, perform more equally to hearing peers on all levels of language testing, literacy, and academic performance.

Except we are talking about CI children to whom the "window of opportunity" time to learn to hear and speak flies fast.
If they are to be "oral" they need to focus on being oral first and foremost. Otherwise implanting will be wasting of that precious time.

And once again you are talking like I am opposed to sign.
Remember - I am not opposed to sign. But learning to be oral is priority for children with CI if they are to achieve good results from their CI.
They CAN learn to sign later, or if the parents want to work really hard they can try to do both at once.

And like I've said once before- a disabled person unfortunately must work harder than non - disabled in life. It's called reality.

But a deaf person who can hear, speak and sign has easier time communicating than the one who only sign.

Fuzzy

 

[shel90]

Then please explain to me why every time the CI and children are mentioned you always come up with ""hmmm I have nothing against CI but these CI children's oral skills suck".
If CI weren't the issue you would say "CI helps being oral but not if proper therapy afterwards is not provided" or something like that.

Fuzzy

U can read my statements however u want.

My primary concern is language acquisition and socio-emotional development not oral skills.

 

[shel90]

yes, that's the whole point- Rick (and many other) has shared an information which was twisted and misconstrued again and again. Even now.
I am fully aware why- to make him look incompetent and his daughter accomplishments as unsatisfactory.

The truth is, again, those who has their own agenda will do everything to make CI children and their parents look inferior to those who went the "deaf way".

the bottom line is - the parent has right to chose, and it doesn't have to be the deaf way. the deaf pple must learn to accept that, and that the parents of born deaf children will want to opt for CI.

The irony is - it's exactly people like YOU jill who put these parents off the deaf community. Any parents who reads yours opinions, your bashigns, your belittlings,
or who see how an innocent word is turned into something it is not for self - servicing theory will only congratulate himself to save his child from such a petty, little, narrow world. It's exactly pple like YOU jill who cause these parents to turn their back on Deaf Culture.


And the proof - the last parent of CI child -Cloggy- finally left AD.



Fuzzy

No..it is people who called them child abusers, their children robots, and such and such that drove them away. Jillo has never used those words. She is advocating for deaf children's rights to full access to language and normal socio-emotional development. A big difference..

 

[shel90]

Except we are talking about CI children to whom the "window of opportunity" time to learn to hear and speak flies fast.
If they are to be "oral" they need to focus on being oral first and foremost. Otherwise implanting will be wasting of that precious time.

And once again you are talking like I am opposed to sign.
Remember - I am not opposed to sign. But learning to be oral is priority for children with CI if they are to achieve good results from their CI.
They CAN learn to sign later, or if the parents want to work really hard they can try to do both at once.

And like I've said once before- a disabled person unfortunately must work harder than non - disabled in life. It's called reality.

But a deaf person who can hear, speak and sign has easier time communicating than the one who only sign.

Fuzzy

Arent language development and having full access to language supposed to be the priority for all children? Why should deaf children be different? Better oral skills do not equate higher literacy skills. This kind of view is why so many deaf children become delayed..too much focus on oral skills first rather than language acquisition.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

No..it is people who called them child abusers, their children robots, and such and such that drove them away. Jillo has never used those words. She is advocating for deaf children's rights to full access to language and normal socio-emotional development. A big difference..

You just said yourself "read between lines". that is how some pple operate here. they don't have guts to tell " your child is a robot" openly, so they only hint it.
And who is advocating for children to NOT have full access to the language and normal socio-emotional development?

Fuzzy

 

[shel90]

You just said yourself "read between lines". that is how some pple operate here. they don't have guts to tell " your child is a robot" openly, so they only hint it.
And who is advocating for children to NOT have full access to the language and normal socio-emotional development?

Fuzzy

They were talking about their experiences when they first implanted their children. I dont think Jillo nor AllDeaf was around then.

I dont understand that comment about who is advocating for children to NOT have full access to language and normal socio-emotional development. I am lost on that one. Jillo, I, and others have promoted and still continue promote the Bi-Bi approach using BOTH languages so who is advocating for denying full access to language?

 

[jag]

But Rick48 did say that his daughter never learned sign and that she was raised orally all the way and now she is taking some sign classes. However, I do remember one post he made about how his daughter is not interested in
ASL nor the Deaf culture.

He also said he signed her up for classes when she was a teen and she refused to go. so yes at that time she was not interested in ASL or deaf culture. Yes now in college she is learning sign but then my older daughters all took sign when they went off to college to. It happens, exactly how 'immersed' in the culture his daughter becomes will be her decision. I really don't see a need to get all worked up about how Rick raised his child. It was their choice. , tell me how would his family have been excepted by Deaf culture back in 1991 or so? So why would one keep banging ones head against a wall when the child is doing fine without the culture? Every family makes the decision on how to raise their child deaf or not, none of us need to agree completely with how one raises their child. As long as one is not abusing the child its not our business.

 

[jillio]

Again, the half truth of course she forgot to mention that since she was first diagnosed she and we have been involved with the deaf community, that she has many deaf friends some of them lifelong friends so my daughter is very mcuh interested in the deaf community and considers herself to be a part of it.

What she has no interest in is Deaf Culture, the people who called her parents child abusers, who sought and still do to deny her a cochlear implant, who called her a robot, guinea pig, frankenstein, etc. People who judge others by how they communicate not for who they are. Sorry if we did not choose to expose our child to such people but instead exposed her and became a part of a deaf community filled with caring people who accepted her with open arms.
Rick

Clarification.....the ORAL deaf community,which is really a subset of the hearing community, not of the Deaf community.

Kind of like those who claim that parents who choose to leave the implantation decision to the deaf individual are accused by you of being neglectful and irresponsible intheir parenting?

 

[jillio]

Oh brother..he said deaf community and in old posts he has stated the oral deaf community and he said that his daughter is not interested in the Deaf community. There is no other deaf community..just either the oral or the signing ones. That is exactly what I am referring to.

U do not do your thinking for me so u cant tell me what I read or misread. I will decide that for myself and if I did, I will state it here.

Quite obviously, both are incapable of distinguishing the difference in the wordingthat others understand so readily.

 

[jillio]

yes, that's the whole point- Rick (and many other) has shared an information which was twisted and misconstrued again and again. Even now.
I am fully aware why- to make him look incompetent and his daughter accomplishments as unsatisfactory.

The truth is, again, those who has their own agenda will do everything to make CI children and their parents look inferior to those who went the "deaf way".

the bottom line is - the parent has right to chose, and it doesn't have to be the deaf way. the deaf pple must learn to accept that, and that the parents of born deaf children will want to opt for CI.

The irony is - it's exactly people like YOU jill who put these parents off the deaf community. Any parents who reads yours opinions, your bashigns, your belittlings,
or who see how an innocent word is turned into something it is not for self - servicing theory will only congratulate himself to save his child from such a petty, little, narrow world. It's exactly pple like YOU jill who cause these parents to turn their back on Deaf Culture.


And the proof - the last parent of CI child -Cloggy- finally left AD.



Fuzzy

You are on the edge again, Fuzzy. Why are you so threatened by people getting all of the information available, and not just the hype about CI and superior speech skills? Is it because you equate superior speech skills with superior status in the hearing world? I suspect that is it, because you seek to increase your status inthe eyes of the hearing with every post you make. It is about time that all hearing parents wre given accurate information, and that they realized that speech skills and language acquisition are two entirely separate issues.

 

[jillio]

Except we are talking about CI children to whom the "window of opportunity" time to learn to hear and speak flies fast.
If they are to be "oral" they need to focus on being oral first and foremost. Otherwise implanting will be wasting of that precious time.

And once again you are talking like I am opposed to sign.
Remember - I am not opposed to sign. But learning to be oral is priority for children with CI if they are to achieve good results from their CI.
They CAN learn to sign later, or if the parents want to work really hard they can try to do both at once.

And like I've said once before- a disabled person unfortunately must work harder than non - disabled in life. It's called reality.

But a deaf person who can hear, speak and sign has easier time communicating than the one who only sign.

Fuzzy

You are completely off base again, as usual. Your statements prove that you have been unable to comprehend all the cites you have made from your Wiki and Google searches.

 

[jillio]

Arent language development and having full access to language supposed to be the priority for all children? Why should deaf children be different? Better oral skills do not equate higher literacy skills. This kind of view is why so many deaf children become delayed..too much focus on oral skills first rather than language acquisition.

That is the whole issue in a nutshell. What Fuzzy proposes actually creates the langauge delays seen in oral deaf children. Her proposal serves to restrict these kids academically and socially. I suppose that's okay with her, though, because, after all, being able to parrot a few words is the important thing.

 

[jillio]

You just said yourself "read between lines". that is how some pple operate here. they don't have guts to tell " your child is a robot" openly, so they only hint it.
And who is advocating for children to NOT have full access to the language and normal socio-emotional development?

Fuzzy

Quite obviously, you do; by stating that CI children should not be exposed to sign untilthey have developed good oral skills.

 

[Cheri]

And I so agree that parents need to be in contact with the Deaf community as soon as they discover their child is deaf. Too many parents are recieving only one side of the picture before making a decision.

Agreed jillio! You took the words out of my mouth. Ty.

Great video there, highlands about time we see something that is the matter of truth, this is what I've been saying from the get and go, it's important to get educated by the deaf community, because we the ones knows what's best for us, not the parents. It's like this walk a mile in our shoes to get the knowledge of what we went through with decisions that made by our parents and those decisions not always the right ones to be quite honest.

 

[Cheri]

Really? I don't know about that. About his daughter not interested in Deaf culture- is it bad?

Fuzzy

Yes, because his daughter was raised not to be involvement in the deaf culture, and that's the problem with parents only looking out for themselves instead of their own child's welfare and that's ridiculous.

Take a good look at rockdrummer for an example, his son has a cochlear implant and he involves his son in both worlds, that's why you see less bashing onto rockdrummer because he made the right choice he did it for his son.