9/11 - what happened?

[Cloggy]

Rockdrummer,

Have you had a look at "Loose Change"?? It's made by a couple of guy's with a laptop, but it's very informative..

For educated people that explain the fact from their field of expertise, go here and pick one...

 

[rockdrummer]

For every conspiracy theory out there you will find experts to debunk them.
For every theory that is debunked you will find other experts that debunk the debunked theory. This debate can go on endlessly. The only conclusion is there will be no conclusion.

Heres what ya gotta keep in perspective. It aint a perfect world. Never has been, and probably never will be. To me, that explains the anomolies. There are agenda's on both sides of the issue. So I choose to chalk this up to more of the imperfections that we as humans bring to the world.

Life is way to short to spend alot of energy on things we can't control. We can choose to be consumed with issues like this, or we can choose to live our lives and focus on the things that are important, and the things we can control. This is an emotional issue and it brings anger and confusion and sorrow to many people. Perhaps it's time to let it rest. Perhaps it's best to agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Cloggy]

For every conspiracy theory out there you will find experts to debunk them.
For every theory that is debunked you will find other experts that debunk the debunked theory. This debate can go on endlessly. The only conclusion is there will be no conclusion.

Heres what ya gotta keep in perspective. It aint a perfect world. Never has been, and probably never will be. To me, that explains the anomolies. There are agenda's on both sides of the issue. So I choose to chalk this up to more of the imperfections that we as humans bring to the world.

Life is way to short to spend alot of energy on things we can't control. We can choose to be consumed with issues like this, or we can choose to live our lives and focus on the things that are important, and the things we can control. This is an emotional issue and it brings anger and confusion and sorrow to many people. Perhaps it's time to let it rest. Perhaps it's best to agree to disagree and move on.

Funny that you think that - had it not been such a tragedy.
It ain't a perfect world but that's no reason for well-educated people to just lay down and roll over.. On the contrairy, there is an obligation to ask questions.
Here is a subject that is documented and that can be addresses.
Te problem is that people bang on the door, but the door is kept shut.. People should be allowed to look what's behind the door, but acces is denied, based on fairytales and lies.

Sure, the cancer is far too big to imagine, but that doesn't mean that one can't start attacking it little piece by little piece..

Guess you didn't watch "loose change".....

Someone compared it to USA getting wounded by something... The state they are in now.... The leader told you not to worry, it was something they will take care of. In the mean time, the wound has not be cleaned, no bandages on it, so it has been infected even deeper. And anyone trying to clean the wound is not allowed to get close.... They can smell the decaying flesh, but the patient refuses help.. because the leader said it's OK.
The wound was inflicted by the leader.. And he knows that when people start cleaning up.. they will recognise it immediately.... The problem is explaining it to the loyal patient.

 

[Cloggy]

Originally Posted by rockdrummer View Post
.................
fire has never done that to a stell/concrete building before and after
Why did the building collapse on it's own footprint... this normally takes months of preparations by experts do accomplish this.
You keep saying that and I ask you again, when in history has a plane the size of a 767 loaded with 90,000 gallons of jet fuel, flying at 300+ MPH ever slammed into the side of a skyscraper? .....

OK... keep that thought in mind......

That explanation would work to a small degree...

except that WTC-7 was not hit by a plane!!

Have you thought about that allready?

 

[rockdrummer]

Have you thought about that allready?

You are correct. WTC7 was not hit by a plane but it suffered major structural damage from debris impacting it and further lost structural integrity due to hours of heat exposure from fires. Don't loose site of the fact that steel's structural integrity is weakend by heat. Now combine that with the loss of structural integrity due to the massive gouge taken out from falling debris not to mention one of the bottom corners of that structure was completly gone. This is not a magic building that can defy the laws of physics just as the WTC towers were not.
7 World Trade Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now you can't be suggesting that the Society of Fire protection Engineers, The American Society of Civil engineers, The National Fire Protection Association, The American institute of Steel Construction, The council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat and The Structural Engineers Association of New York are all in on the conspiracy? These are the folks that conducted a three year $24 million dollar in depth investigation. Are you suggesting that there findings are not accurate? And the neat thing about America is that we don't just roll over. This is why these independant studies happen. We do want to find out what happened and we have and I accept those conclusions from the experts (not the rouge scholars that are considered outsiders with their hidden agendas).

See if you fall into this catagory

If you have gotten sucked into this because of loose change. Check this and this out.

And what about your core theory. Did the photos I provide finally convince you that the core did remain seconds after the collapse? Are you ready to admit there is no possible way they could remain standing without any support? Or, do you still believe that the core structures should have magically remained intact when everything around them came crashing down?

 

[Cloggy]

You are correct. WTC7 was not hit by a plane but it suffered major structural damage from debris impacting it and further lost structural integrity due to hours of heat exposure from fires. Don't loose site of the fact that steel's structural integrity is weakend by heat. Now combine that with the loss of structural integrity due to the massive gouge taken out from falling debris not to mention one of the bottom corners of that structure was completly gone. This is not a magic building that can defy the laws of physics just as the WTC towers were not.
7 World Trade Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now you can't be suggesting that the Society of Fire protection Engineers, The American Society of Civil engineers, The National Fire Protection Association, The American institute of Steel Construction, The council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat and The Structural Engineers Association of New York are all in on the conspiracy? These are the folks that conducted a three year $24 million dollar in depth investigation. Are you suggesting that there findings are not accurate? And the neat thing about America is that we don't just roll over. This is why these independant studies happen. We do want to find out what happened and we have and I accept those conclusions from the experts (not the rouge scholars that are considered outsiders with their hidden agendas).

See if you fall into this catagory

If you have gotten sucked into this because of loose change. Check this and this out.

And what about your core theory. Did the photos I provide finally convince you that the core did remain seconds after the collapse? Are you ready to admit there is no possible way they could remain standing without any support? Or, do you still believe that the core structures should have magically remained intact when everything around them came crashing down?

You should stop echoing the official version and think and look for yourself..
Fires were not hot enough, damage was not severe, BUildings burned before and after langer and intenser and were still standing...

A $24 million investigation... that's peanuts compared to what they used on other catastrophees. And with that, they didn't touch on important things like WTC-7 collapse, failure to intercept aircraft, change of testimony regarding Norad etc.

Regarding "We do want to find out what happened and we have and I accept those conclusions from the experts (not the rouge scholars that are considered outsiders with their hidden agendas)." shows you have not even looked at some of the links I showed you because you would know you are talking nonsense.

So, you are just rolling over and really do not want to find out what happened.. You really want to keep the status quo, since looking further is too scary.

I just listnened to a radio-broadcast rearding the Norad tapes... It's amazing how the militairy admits to have lied because they were incompetent as soon as the 911-commision tells them that they were confused 3 years before, and they were confused on 911...

And then you grasp straws again with the core... A core would collapse.... in a big pile of spaghetti. Curled up on top of the pancaked floors, or falling away like a tree, 1200ft on the main street...
It would NOT break up in little pieces.... like it did on magic 9-11

But I'm sure in your world 74 steel columns that are interconnected would disintegrate because it fit's best with the official conspiracy theory... which must be true because the government said so... They never lied before... have they??

 

[rockdrummer]

You should stop echoing the official version and think and look for yourself..

You should stop echoing the unfounded conspiracy theories. I have thought and looked for myself. I choose to go with the scientific methodology, not the willy nilly methods. I choose to ignore those that start with a conclusion and build a case around it. Tha'ts exactly opposite of how an investigation should be conducted.

A $24 million investigation... that's peanuts compared to what they used on other catastrophees. And with that, they didn't touch on important things like WTC-7 collapse, failure to intercept aircraft, change of testimony regarding Norad etc.

It's all been touched on. I provided you links to the findings. You just choose to ignore them. That’s fine... Since you obviously didn't read it (your insistance they didn't touch on the WTC-7 collapse) here is part of what they said.

still photo analysis of Building 7 prior to its collapse appears to indicate a greater degree of structural damage from falling debris than originally assumed by FEMA. Specifically, a large 10-story gash existed on the south facade, extending a third across the face of the building and approximately a quarter of the way into the interior.[5] A unique aspect of the design of 7 WTC was that each outer structural column was responsible for supporting 2,000 square feet (186 square meters) of floor space, suggesting that the simultaneous removal of a number of columns would lead to a severely compromised structure. Consistent with this theory, news footage shows visible cracking and bowing of the building's east wall immediately prior to the collapse, which started from the penthouse floors. [5]

Regarding "We do want to find out what happened and we have and I accept those conclusions from the experts (not the rouge scholars that are considered outsiders with their hidden agendas)." shows you have not even looked at some of the links I showed you because you would know you are talking nonsense.

I have looked at them and most of them I have seen years ago. I reject them as nonsense.

So, you are just rolling over and really do not want to find out what happened.. You really want to keep the status quo, since looking further is too scary.

Not quite. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean your statement is even remotely accurate. In fact, you have no clue what you are talking about when you refer to me like that. You have no idea what motivates me nor do you have any clue as to what I have seen or done

And then you grasp straws again with the core... A core would collapse.... in a big pile of spaghetti.

You are the one that was insisting the core should have remained standing. not me.

Still... what happened to the 74-column core... if the floors give away... the inner core would still be standing..

You can't have it both ways.

But I'm sure in your world 74 steel columns that are interconnected would disintegrate because it fit's best with the official conspiracy theory... which must be true because the government said so... They never lied before... have they??

Actually, my world relies on the facts, the forensic evidence, the eyewitness reports, the computer models, the videos, the fact that there is controversy, looking at both sides and then drawing my personal conclusions. It's ok if it doesn’t match with your personal conclusion. It doesn't mean that either of us is right or wrong. It just means that we disagree. Looking at your poll results I see that the majority of folks that voted disagree with you. My guess is that is probably representative of what the majority of people believe. Maybe you are the smart one and everyone else is stupid. Maybe what you say must be true because you are so much smarter than the majority.

 

[Cloggy]

 

[rockdrummer]

Cloggy,

As opposed to going on and on with you on this endless debate, I will bottom line my perspective on this.

You obviously wish to continue this until you are acknowledged as being correct. I have already agreed to disagree and move. Obviously you are struggling with that.

Your attempts to put a spin on what I say to meet your agenda are transparent and tiresome.

You keep saying I agree with the government’s version and no where did I ever say that. I have told you in no uncertain terms how I came to my conclusion but you choose to ignore that. So let me make one last attempt to help you understand my line of thinking.

We have experts on both sides of this issue. That is one thing that we both can agree on. I choose to go with the findings of the experts that have followed proper protocol in there quest for answers. I reject those that haven't. Plain and simple. I understand why protocol exists. It's a check and balance system that separates what is most likely to be true from nonsense. Anybody can come up with an hypothisis. It's protocol that validates it. The experts in your camp can't even pass the scrutiny of a peer review if they are even considered at all.

I agree with you that there are still some un-answered questions. Which questions are un-answered we will most likely not agree on. When questions are answered by proper methods, I will consider them. Just because there are inconsistencies and un-answered questions doesn't mean its a plot by the government. Hell, I consider myself a cynic and even I don't believe that. For the record, I think Bush is a blundering idiot and can't wait until he is out of office. I think the US government makes mistakes all of the time. I also believe there is corruption in pockets of government. Those troubles are not limited to the US. But those facts don’t cause me to believe 9/11 was a plot by the US government.

Your head in the sand shot made me laugh.. My response to that would be someone with their head up their ass saying the 9/11 attack was conspired by the US government. And your shot of what happened to America is quite touching coming from someone that doesn't even live in this country.

It's funny that when cameras were first put in public, people cried that it's an invasion of privacy. I say nonsense. They are there to protect and help you. It's those that have something to hide, or that are paranoid that are opposed to them. Now look around the world and especially in the UK. There are cameras everywhere and they are helping but I would bet there are still those that believe the presense of a public camera is part of a conspiracy. I bet those same individuals believe that the WTC towers were brought down by a controlled demolition.

I look forward to your summation.

 

[Cloggy]

...............
Your head in the sand shot made me laugh.. My response to that would be someone with their head up their ass saying the 9/11 attack was conspired by the US government. And your shot of what happened to America is quite touching coming from someone that doesn't even live in this country. .........

Let'æs just say I'm not trying to reach you, but people reading this.
I'm hoping that my posts will make people think, and that your posts make people think....

Don't take it personally....

Glad that you appreciated the pictures....
And regarding what's happening in USA....
Do you really think that's only the concern of USA ??

 

[rockdrummer]

Let'æs just say I'm not trying to reach you, but people reading this.
I'm hoping that my posts will make people think, and that your posts make people think....

Don't take it personally....

Glad that you appreciated the pictures....
And regarding what's happening in USA....
Do you really think that's only the concern of USA ??

No worries. It's not personal to me. It's a healthy debate of a real topic. My participation here is to make people think as well and hopefully I have accomplished that. To answer your question, no. I believe the US has many concerns.
Cheers!

 

[Cloggy]

And regarding what's happening in USA....
Do you really think that's only the concern of USA ??

....... To answer your question, no. I believe the US has many concerns.
Cheers!

I didn't mean "Do you really think that's the only concern of USA ??

What I meant is that what's happening in USA is not just the concern of USA, it involves the whole world. Any withholding of information will affect people outside USA as well. The world benefits from an America that can be trusted. This is no longer the case.

 

[Cloggy]

Conspiracy Theory is easily connected with idiots having nothing else to do than critisize the government...
BUt here's som food for thought..

FEDERAL AND STATE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS
Rep. Curt Weldon – Vice Chairman of the House Homeland Security

Senator Max Cleland – Former member of the 9/11 Commission, resigned in December 2003.

Louis Freeh – Director of the FBI, 1993-2001. Former U.S. District Court Judge for the Southern District of New York, appointed by President George H.W. Bush. Former Deputy United States Attorney in New York. Former FBI agent. Former officer in the United States Army JAG Corps Reserve.

Morgan Reynolds, PhD – Chief Economist, U.S. Department of Labor under George W. Bush 2001-2002. Former Director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis. Professor Emeritus, Economics, Texas A&M University.

Paul Craig Roberts, PhD – Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury under Ronald Reagan, "Father of Reaganomics", Former Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal. Currently Research Fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University.

Catherine Austin Fitts – Assistant Secretary of Housing under George H.W. Bush. Former Managing Director and Member of the Board of Directors of the Wall Street investment bank, Dillon, Read & Co.

Edward L. Peck – Deputy Director of the White House Task Force on Terrorism under Ronald Reagan. Former Deputy Coordinator, Covert Intelligence Programs at the State Department. U.S. Ambassador and Chief of Mission to Iraq (1977-80). 32-year veteran of the U.S. Foreign Service.

Morton Goulder – Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and Warning under Presidents Nixon, Ford, and Carter (1973-77). Founder of Sanders Associates.

Fred Burks – Former State Department Interpreter for Presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton, Vice Presidents Dick Cheney and Al Gore, Secretaries of State Colin Powell and Madeleine Albright. 18-year State Department career.

Philip J. Berg, Esquire – Former Deputy Attorney General, Pennsylvania.

U.S. MILITARY OFFICERS
Major General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) – Commanding General of the U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), 1981 - 1984. Also commanded the U.S. Army’s Electronic Research and Development Command (ERADCOM) and the U.S. Army’s Intelligence School and Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army career.

Col. Ronald D. Ray, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) – Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense during the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran (two Silver Stars, a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart). Appointed by President George H.W. Bush to serve on the American Battle Monuments Commission (1990-1994), and on the 1992 Presidential Commission on the Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces. From 1990 through 1994, he served as Military Historian and Deputy Director of Field Operations for the U.S. Marine Corps Historical Center, Washington, D.C.

Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Director of Advanced Space Programs Development "Star Wars Program" under Presidents Ford and Carter. U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. (PhD in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering, Cal Tech).

Col. George Nelson, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. 34-year Air Force career.


Major Douglas Rokke, PhD, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Director U.S. Army Depleted Uranium Project.

Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force – Former Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. Commercial pilot for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years, flying 707, 720, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, and 777 ’s. Had previously flown the actual two United Airlines airplanes that were hijacked on 9/11 (Flight 93, which impacted in Pennsylvania, and Flight 175, the second plane to hit the WTC).


Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Military Intelligence Officer in the Defense Intelligence Agency, a member of the ABLE DANGER effort to target Al Qaeda’s global structure. Former Chief of the Army’s controlled HUMINT program – overseeing Army Intelligence and Security Command’s global controlled HUMINT efforts. Awarded the Bronze Star for bravery. 23-year military intelligence career.

Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Also served on the staff of the Director of the National Security Agency. 20-year Air Force veteran.

Major Scott Ritter, U.S. Marine Corps – Former Marine Corps Intelligence Officer and Chief Weapons Inspector for the United Nations Special Commission in Iraq 1991-1998.

Barbara Honegger – Senior Military Affairs Journalist at the Naval Postgraduate School, the Navy’s advanced science, technology and national security affairs university (1995 - present). White House Policy Analyst and Special Assistant to the Assistant to President Ronald Reagan (1981-83).

Capt. Gregory M. Zeigler, PhD, U.S. Army – Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer


U.S. INTELLIGENCE SERVICES VETERANS
Raymond L. McGovern – Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA, responsible for preparing the President’ Daily Brief (PDB) for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. 27-year CIA veteran.


William Christison – Former National Intelligence Officer and Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis. 29-year CIA veteran.

Melvin A. Goodman – Division Chief and Senior Analyst at the Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1966 - 1990. Senior Analyst at the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974 - 1976.

Robert Baer – Former CIA Case Officer, Specialist in the Middle East, Directorate of Operations. Awarded Career Intelligence Medal. 21-year CIA veteran. Author of two nonfiction books about CIA operations, See No Evil and Sleeping with the Devil

Sibel D. Edmonds – Former Language Translation Specialist, FBI. Witness before the 9/11 Commission.

Bogdan Dzakovic – 14-year Counter-terrorism expert in the Security Division of the Federal Aviation Administration. Team Leader of the FAA's Red Team, which conducted undercover tests on airport security through simulated terrorist attacks. Former Team Leader in the Federal Air Marshal program. Former Coast Guard officer. Witness before the 9/11 Commission.
..............

Edward J. Costello, Jr., Former Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI

John M. Cole, Former Veteran Intelligence Operations Specialist, FBI

David "Mark" Conrad, Retired Agent in Charge, Internal Affairs, U.S. Customs

Rosemary N. Dew, Former Supervisory Special Agent, Counterterrorism and Counterintelligence, FBI

Bogdan Dzakovic, Former Red Team Leader, FAA (See also individual quote above.)

Sibel D. Edmonds, Former Language Specialist, FBI (See also individual quote above.)

Steve Elson, Retired Navy Seal and Former Special Agent, FAA and US Navy

David Forbes, Aviation, Logistics and Govt. Security Analysts, BoydForbes, Inc.,

Melvin A. Goodman, Retired Senior Analyst/ Division Manager and Senior Fellow at the Center for International Policy, CIA (See also individual quote above.)

Mark Graf, Former Security Supervisor, Planner, and Derivative Classifier, Department of Energy

Gilbert M. Graham, Retired Special Agent, Counterintelligence, FBI

Diane Kleiman, Former Special Agent, US Customs

Lt Col Karen U. Kwiatkowski, Veteran Policy Analyst, U.S. Air Force-DoD (See also individual quote above.)

Lynne A. Larkin, Former Operation Officer, CIA

David MacMichael, Former Senior Estimates Officer, CIA

Raymond L. McGovern, Veteran Analyst, CIA (See also individual quote above.)

Theodore J. Pahle, Senior Intelligence Officer (Ret), Defense Intelligence Agency, Office of Naval Intelligence, and U.S. Army Intelligence

Behrooz Sarshar, Retired Language Specialist, FBI

Brian F. Sullivan, Retired Special Agent and Risk Management Specialist, FAA

Larry J. Tortorich, Retired US Naval Officer, US Navy and Dept. of Homeland Security/TSA

Jane A. Turner, Retired Special Agent, FBI

John B. Vincent, Retired Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI

Dr. Fred Whitehurst, Retired Supervisory Special Agent/Laboratory Forensic Examiner, FBI

Col. Ann Wright, Retired Reserve Colonel and Former US Diplomat, US Army,

Matthew J. Zipoli, Special Response Team (SRT) Officer, DOE
INTERNATIONAL MILITARY AND INTELLIGENCE EXPERTS

Paul Hellyer – Former Minister of National Defense of Canada. Former Deputy Prime Minister. Former Member of House of Commons.

Andreas von Buelow, PhD – Former State Secretary of the Federal Ministry of Defense of West Germany. Former Minister of Research and Technology. Member of Bundestag (Parliament) 1969-1994.

Michael Meacher – Former Under Secretary for Industry, Under Secretary for Health and Social Security, Minister for the Environment, and Member of the House of Commons (Parliament) (UK).

General Leonid Ivashov – Former Chief of Staff of the Russian armed forces on 9/11/2001, and Department Chief for General affairs in the Soviet Union's Ministry of Defense.

Mohamed Hassanein Heikal – Former Foreign Minister of Egypt.

David Shayler – Former Counter-Terrorism Officer, MI5 (Britain)

 

[rockdrummer]

I didn't mean "Do you really think that's the only concern of USA ??

What I meant is that what's happening in USA is not just the concern of USA, it involves the whole world. Any withholding of information will affect people outside USA as well. The world benefits from an America that can be trusted. This is no longer the case.

Well now, that's an entirely different issue. There is the notion of a conspiracy that alleges the entire 9/11 scenario was orchestrated by the US government. To that one I say nonsense. I don't believe this government has the wherewithal to pull off something as complex as that without going un-noticed or having someone leak the information. I mean, they can't even figure out how many troops are needed in Iraq. They couldn't even plant WMD to cover their asses. Hell, they couldn't figure out what to do when Katrina hit.

And then there are the allegations that Bush was aware of the likelihood of an attack and did nothing to prevent it. Actually, those aren't really allegations. They are known facts. On the day of the attacks his actions were not that of a commander and chief. The idea of Bush allowing the attacks to occur to meet his agenda is more likely that him being capable of orchestrating 9/11.

Its common knowledge that the US intelligence agencies knew of an imminent attack and they provided our leader with that information. He chose not to act on it. For me, that is a major problem that needs thorough investigation. This does smack of a cover up and it will be interesting to see what happens. There are enough people pressing the issue that I am hopeful the truth be exposed in due time.

 

[Cloggy]

Videofootage Pentagon....

How it could have - or should have looked like... (From this website)

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The government claims all 84 cameras either didn't capture the impact or that tape in the cameras was mysteriously empty and yet returned as normal to film the cleanup operations.[/FONT]

From an eyewitness... this story..

 

[rockdrummer]

How it could have - or should have looked like... (From this website)

From an eyewitness... this story..

I guess that depends on the camera, the angle, the distance, and the duration of the time lapse settings. Anyone can doctor up a video. Let me ask you this. If the video provided by the government is so damning to their version, why do you think they released it? On your example above, it sure looks to me like that plane out of scale with the distance from the camera that it should be. It sure looks much closer to the camera that the actual plane would have been... It also looks like the time lapse settings have been decreased to take snapshots at lesser intervals. Its amazing what you can do with some video editing software.

Also I will ask you this. After all this time with all the people that believe (as you seem to) that this was a hoax, why aren't there any conclusive findings by independant studies that hold up to protocol? I would also ask you to sum up the amount of time and effort you have spent on this and think about how you could have used it more productivly. Say, spending more time with your family, or on a hobby. Where has all of this gotten anyone?

I am a believer in forensic science. Show me the forensic evedince that holds up to protocol that indicates any .... any of these cliams. Just one bit is all I ask for.... It's retorical so don't waste your time trying to find something that we both know doesn't exist.

 

[SxyPorkie]

Oh my God... you wont shut up about 9/11.... you are not american from here.. so be it.... let it go.....Cloggy....

 

[rockdrummer]

9/11 is the best thing that happened to america. things have grown stagnant and this attack has sped up the process. soon entropy will set in and bang someone will light a fire and accelerate motion in this closed system. bad things will happen to america, and hey, it s only history repeating itself

Against my better judgement I have to ask exactly how you believe that 9/11 is the best thing that happened to America? What process has sped up? What closed system do you speak of? entropy in America..... Care to elaborate?

 

[rockdrummer]

america s a young country, a toddler in terms of historical retrospection. it s arrogance is awe-inspiring and it s confidence is stunning. but all toddlers fall down. but hey look on the positive, most times they get up.

the stagnation i speak of concerns the laws and rigors the govt presses onto its people. 9 11 was the catalyst that allowed the governmental powers to introduce even more restrictive and invasive laws. freedom is slowly phased into something that is said without meaning. the entropy i refer to is the opportunity of motion. pack too much air into a ballon, dont give the molecules much room to move, and it ll push back then pop it goes.
i dont think it s a valid enuf explanation but it s all u ll get ha. perhaps i was erroneous to refer america as a closed system. it should be applied globally. external agents will be responsible for america's downfall. i would not be too surprised if the country becomes a massive ghetto within the next century

There once was a great dane that was being walked down my block. As I looked out the window the dog was taking a crap in the neighbors yard. I thought to myself... man.. that is a huge pile of shit. In fact, until your post, that was the biggest pile of shit that I had ever seen.

 

[Reba]

There once was a great dane that was being walked down my block. As I looked out the window the dog was taking a crap in the neighbors yard. I thought to myself... man.. that is a huge pile of shit. In fact, until your post, that was the biggest pile of shit that I had ever seen.

Nothing like some good old-fashioned scatological humor to break the tension.