9/11 - what happened?

[Cloggy]

If you agree with Cloggy's point of view, maybe you can answer the question that he cannot. What would be the motive for someone to "fake" the 9/11 attacks?

It is a very valid question, and from a normal point of view there can be no reason why someone would just sacrifice 3000 lives in order to get their will.

But the american people have been lied to before in order for the government to get what they want. Also, there have been numerous plans to create an attack on america in order to influence the public opinion.

Because essentially, that is what it is about. Inflluencing the people so that they will give away their freedoms.
Since 911 many rights of freedom have been taken away. The government can listen in on you without problems. People are send to war without problems. Basically, your rights are being taken away from you with your consent.

Another reason is controlling the oil. (I know, boring, but controlling oil is what gives power.) There was no reason before 911 to go into Afghanistan... With 911 they got their way and an oil-pipeline can be made. There was absolutely no reason to into Iraq. (Many countries have WMD's not just Iraq) After 911 they fabricated a reason to start a war there... Oh, and Iraq has lots of oil.

$ 200.000.000.000 gold was stored in the basement of the world trade center... $200.000.000 was found again.. (aren't you lucky) there's signs that the rest was loaded on trucks and removed just before 911.
That's a $199.800.000.000 motive.

But these kind of motives are speculation.

I want to focus on questions that the government doesn't answer.... Motive will show later.

* Why did a $40.000.000.000 defense system not manage to intercept 4 hijacked planes, but can intercept a private jet with a golfer in 20 minutes..(2000)
* Why was evidence cleared out so quickly?
* Why took it 440+ days to start an investigation? And only AFTER family of the deceased INSISTED on it!
* Why has the collapse of WTC-7 (not hit by a plane) not been investigated?
* Why have no video's been shown showing what hit the Pentagon.

The organisation responsible for 911 does not think like you and me. They have their own agenda of which we have no clue.
FOr some people sacrificing 3000 people is not a problem... Look at Iraq.... How many have been killed there...
The people that decided to goto war.... how many of them have a son or daughter there... I'll bet that the percentage is far lower that that of the average person around you...

By the way... which top section hit's the ground first??
The one from the crane, the one with the core ignored or the one with the core shown???

 

[GalaxyAngel]

*sigh* not again.. Im not here repeat what I've already gave you all same stories...

enuff about 9/11 and let's move on...

 

[Cloggy]

You allready said that...
But just for the hack of it.... which piece of floors would you think falls the fastest?

The one from the crane, the one with the core ignored or the one with the core shown???

​

And check around you as well. I'm curious what other people choose...

 

[Reba]

Why should I repeat since I already posted in several 9/11 threads?

Would you be so kind as to give us the link then?

 

[Boult]

Cloggy, the one from crane will win the race.

 

[Boult]

Cloggy,

Instead of going thru all those page in this thread to find out, I'll just ask you if you have seen and posted this link?
The World Trade Center Demolition and the So-Called War on Terrorism


If not then click #4 what actually happened
then scroll down to nbr 11 (I recalled you had a link to sites with photos which one of them has guys hauling someting away covered with tarp.)


Have a good day!

 

[rockdrummer]

Cloggy,

Instead of going thru all those page in this thread to find out, I'll just ask you if you have seen and posted this link?
The World Trade Center Demolition and the So-Called War on Terrorism


If not then click #4 what actually happened
then scroll down to nbr 11 (I recalled you had a link to sites with photos which one of them has guys hauling someting away covered with tarp.)


Have a good day!

This is just one of many conspiracy theroy websites out there. The intersting thing abut this one is that many of it's statements are supposidly backed up by links to the information but the links are broken. hmmmmmm.. Interesting. Maybe its a government plot to discredit them by removing the information they reference...

 

[Cloggy]

This is just one of many conspiracy theroy websites out there. The intersting thing abut this one is that many of it's statements are supposidly backed up by links to the information but the links are broken. hmmmmmm.. Interesting. Maybe its a government plot to discredit them by removing the information they reference...

Broken links happen on both sides.. be fair...
And the official theory is ALSO a "conspiracy theory"....

But tell me, those two pictures I showed.... which situation will hit the ground fastest??
And of course I will use your answer to explain more....

 

[Cloggy]

Cloggy,

Instead of going thru all those page in this thread to find out, I'll just ask you if you have seen and posted this link?
The World Trade Center Demolition and the So-Called War on Terrorism


If not then click #4 what actually happened
then scroll down to nbr 11 (I recalled you had a link to sites with photos which one of them has guys hauling someting away covered with tarp.)


Have a good day!

Thanks for the link. Hadn't been there yet....

What they were carrying could have been something that they want to cover. On the other side, it could just have been a tent. It seems quite light.
But the holes in the C-wing are significant. A plane plouhing through so many rings would not be able to create a nice hole like that. The nose-cone is too soft for that.. And how does a wheel-hub get there....

Too many speculations... That's why I like to focus on things like "where are the other video's - and why can't we have a look at them?"

Will read that site later on....

 

[Boult]

Cloggy,

check out those videos regarding bombs inside WTC
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

 

[rockdrummer]

Broken links happen on both sides.. be fair...
And the official theory is ALSO a "conspiracy theory"....

But tell me, those two pictures I showed.... which situation will hit the ground fastest??
And of course I will use your answer to explain more....

I am being fair. I have yet to find ONE broken link on any of the sites that I have referenced. The reason, they are legitimate. Take a good read at the first link below. It will explain the answers to many of your questions from a purly scientific perspective. Happy reading. BTW - I won't comment on your pictures because they don't represent anything real. Again, the first link should answer most of your questions.

Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation
World Trade Center - Some Engineering Aspects - Civil Engineering - The University of Sydney
Collapse of the World Trade Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Brian.Carnell.Com
Microsoft Software Provides Insight into WTC Collapse.

 

[rockdrummer]

Broken links happen on both sides.. be fair...
And the official theory is ALSO a "conspiracy theory"....
But tell me, those two pictures I showed.... which situation will hit the ground fastest?? And of course I will use your answer to explain more....

I am being fair. I have yet to find ONE broken link on any of the sites that I have referenced. The reason? They are legitimate. Take a good read at the first link below. It will explain the answers to many of your questions from a purly scientific perspective. Happy reading. BTW - I won't comment on your pictures because they don't represent anything real with regard to the dynamics involved in the actual collapse. Again, the first link should answer most of your questions.

Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation
World Trade Center - Some Engineering Aspects - Civil Engineering - The University of Sydney
Collapse of the World Trade Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Brian.Carnell.Com
Microsoft Software Provides Insight into WTC Collapse.

Oh, and regarding WTC7, check this link
Debunking 911 Conpiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition - WTC 7

Also check the home of that site to answer many of your other questions.
Debunking 911 Conpiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition Homepage

And here is even more.
Journal Of Debunking  9/11 Conspiracy Theories

 

[Cloggy]

I am being fair. I have yet to find ONE broken link on any of the sites that I have referenced. The reason? They are legitimate. Take a good read at the first link below. It will explain the answers to many of your questions from a purly scientific perspective. Happy reading. BTW - I won't comment on your pictures because they don't represent anything real with regard to the dynamics involved in the actual collapse. Again, the first link should answer most of your questions.

Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation..............

Excellent reading.
Still... what happened to the 74-column core... if the floors give away... the inner core would still be standing..

And regarding the drawings... what's not representative about them.
The actually show exactly the point!!

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Would you be so kind as to give us the link then?

I made many posts at several 9/11 forums. It's impossible to provide many links here... I would suggest you to go my profile and search my posts then you will find my posts there.

I thought you remember my posts because we debated in several 9/11 threads, don't you?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Don't you remember Bush's angry word on 9/11 and label Iraq as terrorists & want to attack Iraq... ? The world tried to stop him... Don't you remember this?

We found out that he find an excuse to blame Iraq for 9/11 which he KNEW Saddam is not responsible for 9/11 then?

Why soliders continue stay in Iraq instead of trace Bin Laden after Saddam's arrest then?


Use your common sense!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cloggy]

.....................
Oh, and regarding WTC7, check this link
Debunking 911 Conpiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition - WTC 7..........

Very nice story... and impressive with all the witnesses....

Still, 911-commision totally ignored it, but when people start asking questions, suddenly lot's of explantions (and testimonies) surface...
All very well,

Why did the building collapse... fire has never done that to a stell/concrete building before and after
Why did the building collapse on it's own footprint... this normally takes months of preparations by experts do accomplish this.
Why did WTC-5 and 6 remain standing.. hit by a lot of debris, wheras WTC-7 collapses....

All these questions are NOT adressed. They are clouded by witness testimonies telling in what a terrible shape the building was.
Fact is, that there are other buildings in a much worse state (before and after 911, barcelona for example) that did not collapse after burning for over a day!!.....

And the wonderful explanation about using the word "pull it"...
In the witnes testimony they are talking about "Pull us out". Not about "pull us"......

over the smaller buildings. I just remember it was tremendous, tremendous fires going on. Finally they pulled us out. They said all right, get out of that building because that 7, they were really worried about. They pulled us out of there

"OUT" is part of the word. There's no reason why he would leave it out talking in that context....

He might have wanted to "pull it" so that the fires didn't need to be taken out...

The decision was to "pull" it ... not to "pull out" firefighters.

 

[rockdrummer]

Excellent reading.
Still... what happened to the 74-column core... if the floors give away... the inner core would still be standing..

And regarding the drawings... what's not representative about them.
The actually show exactly the point!!

Actually, if you look at the videos (not the ones from the consipiracy sites), you will see that the core actually did remain for seconds after the collapse (see attached photos). Without the floors tieing them together anymore they had no support.

In Robertson's design, the downward weight of the building was also supported by large steel columns around the building's inner core, which is where he placed elevator shafts, emergency stairs and other building services. But the tall vertical columns of the inner core and outer walls were like freestanding stilts until Robertson tied them together with floor trusses
NOVA | Transcripts | Why the Towers Fell | PBS

. And I still don't get the point of your cartoon pictures. Both show the top section of the building suspended from a crane. Is the assumption that those sections will be dropped from the crane? If so, the would both fall equally as fast. Assuming you are suggesting they are falling from their original position, I still dont' see the point. Are you trying to re-eforce the "free fall" theory? If so, that was debunked in one of the links I provided in my last post. You may want to re-read them.

 

[rockdrummer]

Why did the building collapse...

How much scientific evidence must I provide you on this. Go back and look at the links I provided in previous posts. The explain EXACTLY why they collapsed from a purly scientific point of view. You can choose to believe the non-educated people that want to stir up contravorsy but I will stick with what the scholars are saying about it.

fire has never done that to a stell/concrete building before and after
Why did the building collapse on it's own footprint... this normally takes months of preparations by experts do accomplish this.

You keep saying that and I ask you again, when in history has a plane the size of a 767 loaded with 90,000 gallons of jet fuel, flying at 300+ MPH ever slammed into the side of a skyscraper? And the building did not collapse on its own footprint. See the previous link I provided you regarding the debris field. Also, in one of the collapses there is clear evidence that the top portion of the building DID topple sidewards. See photo below.

Here is another link on debunking the 9/11 conspiracy theories from what I would consider a reputable source.
Debunking The 9/11 Myths - Mar. 2005 Cover Story - Popular Mechanics

 

[Cloggy]

Actually, if you look at the videos (not the ones from the consipiracy sites), you will see that the core actually did remain for seconds after the collapse (see attached photos). Without the floors tieing them together anymore they had no support.

Looking at the North tower, the TV-mast falls down before anything else.... the support - the core - is suddenly removed. Then the rest of the buildng follows.

The piece you show that topples... that's correct. That piece should have dropped like a rock along the rest of the building. All this weight removed from the rest of the structure.... and it still collapsed.
Also, the piece that tumbles.... it disappears in a cloud of dust. It does not hit the ground!!
[/QUOTE]

And I still don't get the point of your cartoon pictures. Both show the top section of the building suspended from a crane. Is the assumption that those sections will be dropped from the crane? If so, the would both fall equally as fast. Assuming you are suggesting they are falling from their original position, I still dont' see the point. Are you trying to re-eforce the "free fall" theory? If so, that was debunked in one of the links I provided in my last post. You may want to re-read them.

You are correct, there is one too many crane there... Perhaps it's easier to show either the building with or without the core...
Obviously, the top part with the core will fall the slowest, having the most resistance. Then the one without the core, and then the floors suspended by the crane.

You did provide links debunking the freefall theory, but they are incorrect. A pancake theory cannot explain freefall speed.

You say "You can choose to believe the non-educated people" and that's where you are really wrong. I have shown information from scientists and other academics. People that support their theories with evidence.
The government is relying on evidence that has been destroyed before anyone could have a look at it... or when it's available, they will not show it..

I appreciate all your links, and I've been there as well. The Popular Mechnics link is interesting, but biased as well.
I know, you bring something up (actully, Reba allready brought it up) and I reject it... but again, it explains nothing, or it draws wrong conclusions..

You want a link rebunking the rebunking theories....

 

[Cloggy]

............

fire has never done that to a stell/concrete building before and after
Why did the building collapse on it's own footprint... this normally takes months of preparations by experts do accomplish this.

You keep saying that and I ask you again, when in history has a plane the size of a 767 loaded with 90,000 gallons of jet fuel, flying at 300+ MPH ever slammed into the side of a skyscraper? .....

OK... keep that thought in mind......

That explanation would work to a small degree...

except that WTC-7 was not hit by a plane!!