8.9 quake in Japan triggers massive tsunamis

[Reba]

That's not what Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity would say...

You must watch them more than I do.

 

[Reba]

Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh have described this event as 'payback'. I have absolutely zero respect for either of these idiots.

Payback for what?

 

[TWA]

Me, too.

I'm also not opposed to solar, geothermal, and hydroelectric.

The problem with solar is that our technology for converting solar energy to usable energy is relatively crude. Even the most advanced solar panels have an efficiency rating of less than 30%. Also, many kinds of solar cells are made with petrochemicals. Contradictory, no?

The sun is, ultimately, the main source of energy for the planet, and of all our energy reserves, it is the most lasting (even if we found an efficient way to harvest the hydrogen available in our water system, we'd still run out much sooner than the 5 billion years before the sun goes supernova). So while I see solar energy as currently inefficient, it will ultimately be the lifeblood of our species (assuming we don't blow ourselves up, first).

Geothermal energy is fantastic, but it is too scattered to be viable.

Hydroelectric is too damaging to the environment and ecosystems to be a large scale energy source.

Nuclear technology that will be available to us in the near future will make it the safest, most efficient, and most abundant source of energy known to man. It's all just a matter of shrugging off the fear we have of nuclear power, which is a remnant of the cold war.

 

[TWA]

it was in basement. and that got flooded by tsunami.

Well that was pretty poor oversight, don'tcha think?

 

[Jiro]

Well that was pretty poor oversight, don'tcha think?

no. nobody expected this level of disaster.

if it was placed outside... it would get damaged anyway. but if it didn't, the backup generator wouldn't last that long anyway since the external power was destroyed.

 

[TWA]

You must watch them more than I do.

That's why I like you, Granny Reba!

 

[Dixie]

Source?

MSNBC - watched it, did not read it.

 

[Dixie]

Payback for what?

Payback for the things they were or were not doing as a Japanese people/country. I think Rush was trying to say that it was payback for Japan not being a Christian nation.

 

[TWA]

no. nobody expected this level of disaster.

if it was placed outside... it would get damaged anyway. but if it didn't, the backup generator wouldn't last that long anyway since the external power was destroyed.

No? So after the Indian Ocean Tsunami, nobody thought, "Oh hey, we've got these nuclear reactors that are RIGHT ON THE COASTLINE and it's possible that they could get flooded..."?

As far as Tsunamis go, the Japan Tsunami wasn't even a large magnitude.

Maybe they should of thought about waterproofing the generators or creating safe holding vessels for them?

I reiterate: poor oversight.

 

[TXgolfer]

MSNBC - watched it, did not read it.

Payback for the things they were or were not doing as a Japanese people/country. I think Rush was trying to say that it was payback for Japan not being a Christian nation.

Well it's BS Beck has been PRAISING the Japanese people. Almost all of yesterday's show sounded like Shel's post yesterday. As for Rush but I highly doubt it. What do you expect from MSNBC anyway.....That network is barely on the air anymore.

 

[Reba]

Payback for the things they were or were not doing as a Japanese people/country. I think Rush was trying to say that it was payback for Japan not being a Christian nation.

Really? That's bizarre. If that's true, then most of the world, not just Japan, would be getting pay back.

 

[TXgolfer]

Really? That's bizarre. If that's true, then most of the world, not just Japan, would be getting pay back.

even.....gulp....us.....:Ohno:

 

[TXgolfer]

Such a horrible man.....

The 9/12 Project was founded on the following 9 Principles and 12 Values:

The 9 Principles
1.America Is Good.
2.I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.
God “The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained.” from George Washington’s first Inaugural address.
3.I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.
Honesty “I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider to be the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man.” George Washington
4.The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
Marriage/Family “It is in the love of one’s family only that heartfelt happiness is known. By a law of our nature, we cannot be happy without the endearing connections of a family.” Thomas Jefferson
5.If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.
Justice “I deem one of the essential principles of our government… equal and exact justice to all men of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political.” Thomas Jefferson
6.I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
Life, Liberty, & The Pursuit of Happiness “Everyone has a natural right to choose that vocation in life which he thinks most likely to give him comfortable subsistence.” Thomas Jefferson
7.I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.
Charity “It is not everyone who asketh that deserveth charity; all however, are worth of the inquiry or the deserving may suffer.” George Washington
8.It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
On your right to disagree “In a free and republican government, you cannot restrain the voice of the multitude; every man will speak as he thinks, or more properly without thinking.” George Washington
9.The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.
Who works for whom? “I consider the people who constitute a society or a nation as the source of all authority in that nation.” Thomas Jefferson
The 12 Values
■Honesty
■Reverence
■Hope
■Thrift
■Humility
■Charity
■Sincerity
■Moderation
■Hard Work
■Courage
■Personal Responsibility
■Gratitude

 

[Dixie]

Really? That's bizarre. If that's true, then most of the world, not just Japan, would be getting pay back.

Just going by what I've seen flipping through the TV. I've been bouncing back and forth between CNN, MSNBC, Headline News, and local stations such as CBS, NBC, etc. I stay away from Fox news though.

 

[Steinhauer]

There have been a lot of comments from ugly Americans stating that this is payback for Pearl Harbor. I have seen it mentioned in the news and I have seen it in other forums.

Those people are crackpots. I lost a great Uncle in the Pearl Harbor attack. If anyone should feel bitterness or resentment, it would be my grandmother (it was her little brother). His name was Robert Virgil Cunningham and he is buried at the Honolulu National Memorial Cemetery.

Japan has been our allies and they have been trying, for decades, to apologize.

I wonder if those people who are so ready to bring up the past relations would say the same thing about England? They were our enemies once too.

Japan does not deserve this. They deserve help. They deserve forgiveness too ... and <this> American hopes they get it.

 

[TWA]

Wait, some people are actually saying this is payback for Pearl Harbor??? That is absolutely ridiculous. That is childish and backward in so many ways, but let's just entertain that mindset for just a moment: 68 American civilians died in the Pearl Harbor attack. 200,000 Japanese civilians died in the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. That wasn't payback enough???

Unbelievable.

 

[Jiro]

No? So after the Indian Ocean Tsunami, nobody thought, "Oh hey, we've got these nuclear reactors that are RIGHT ON THE COASTLINE and it's possible that they could get flooded..."?

As far as Tsunamis go, the Japan Tsunami wasn't even a large magnitude.

Maybe they should of thought about waterproofing the generators or creating safe holding vessels for them?

I reiterate: poor oversight.

why don't we take out crystal ball to foresee everything?

In 1979, what happened at Three Miles Island was that cooling system failed... which led to partial meltdown.

In 1986, what happened at Chernobyl was a mother of all fuck-ups and worst of all - it had no containment vessel.

In 2007, Japan had a 6.8-magnitude earthquake and Kashiwazaki-Kariwa plant (the largest nuclear power station in the world) was damaged. It was designed to withstand about 3.0-magnitude. It was a close call.

Today... Fukushima power plant has both backup cooling system, containment vessel, and redundancy system in place.... and it was designed to withstand magnitude of 7.9 and peak ground acceleration of 0.18g. Earthquake was magnitude 9.0 and its peak ground acceleration was 0.35g. All nuclear power plants in Japan were designed to shut down in case of earthquake. Fukushima plant did so as designed. It withstood earthquake beyond its design basis. But... how can they foresee 9.0 earthquake when it rarely happens plus tsunami? We can't always build everything to withstand extreme condition.

So what's going on now? Simple - it's nuclear engineering.... something that 0.0001% of the human population can comprehend. Nobody likes the term "nuclear" or "radiation". They think Chernobyl, Godzilla, and "End of World" doomsday.

btw - Fukushima power plant was designed by American company - GE. Better blame GE then... oh and guess what?

U.S. Nuclear Plants Have Same Risks, and Backups, as Japan Counterparts

Although exactly what happened at Japan’s nuclear power plants is still being sorted out, most of the nuclear plants in the United States share some or all of the risk factors that played a role at Fukushima Daiichi: locations on tsunami-prone coastlines or near earthquake faults, aging plants and backup electrical systems that rely on diesel generators and batteries that could fail in extreme circumstances.

David Lochbaum, a nuclear engineer and the director of the Nuclear Safety Project of the Union of Concerned Scientists, suggested Sunday that while emergency preparedness and safety redundancies were built into the DNA of every nuclear plant in the United States, the string of events that damaged the Fukushima plant was beyond the sort of situations imagined by nuclear regulators and plant designers.

“The real situation they found themselves in is not really planned for,” Mr. Lochbaum said. “Those plants are designed to be highly resistant to damage by earthquakes, and as immune as possible to tsunami. The problem was the one-two punch. We design against these sorts of things in isolation, and the combination is a little beyond what they would have anticipated.”

you better start worrying about 2 Diablo Canyon nuclear power plants in California... which is prone to earthquake and possibly tsunami. Both plants are designed to withstand 7.5-magnitude. The projected and recorded seismic activity around that area is maximum of 6.1 - 6.5 magnitude. But.... what happened in Japan was 9.0-magnitude... a rare occurrence... perhaps we should take out crystal ball to predict when 9.0 + tsunami will strike those 2 Diablo Canyon plants?


Poor Oversight? lol

 

[Jiro]

Three Mile Island Nuclear Power Accident: How Japan's Fukushima Damage Compares

NEW YORK (Scott DiSavino) – The Japanese nuclear safety agency rated the damage at a nuclear power plant at Fukushima at a four on a scale of one to seven, which is not quite as bad as the Three Mile Island accident in the United States in 1979, which registered a five. But what does that mean?

The International Atomic Energy Agency -- an inter-governmental organization for scientific co-operation in the nuclear field -- said it uses the scale to communicate to the public in a consistent way the safety significance of nuclear and radiological events.

The International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale, or INES, ranges from one to seven with the most serious being a seven referred to as a "major accident", while a one is an "anomaly". The scale is designed so the severity of an event is about ten times greater for each increase in level.

The Chernobyl explosion in the Ukraine in 1986, the worst nuclear power accident ever, was rated a seven. That was the only event classified as a major accident in nuclear power history, exploded due to an uncontrolled power surge that damaged the reactor core, releasing a radioactive cloud that blanketed Europe.

Doug Hake said....

“I agree. We design reactors to withstand a wide variety of accident conditions. Sure, you can only design something to withstand so much. I don't know many things that can be designed to be hit with both a 9.0 magnitude earthquake and a tsunami. And despite the troubles at these plants, given what they have seen, I would say they did gosh darn good. If anything, lessons learned can be used to further improve upon designs. This will only make the industry safer. Its the way it has been working since it started back in the day with Shippingport, and will continue to be.”

 

[Reba]

Just going by what I've seen flipping through the TV. I've been bouncing back and forth between CNN, MSNBC, Headline News, and local stations such as CBS, NBC, etc. I stay away from Fox news though.

Glenn Beck is on Fox, and Rush is on the radio, so how do you follow what they say?

 

[Reba]

There have been a lot of comments from ugly Americans stating that this is payback for Pearl Harbor. I have seen it mentioned in the news and I have seen it in other forums.

Those people are crackpots. I lost a great Uncle in the Pearl Harbor attack. If anyone should feel bitterness or resentment, it would be my grandmother (it was her little brother). His name was Robert Virgil Cunningham and he is buried at the Honolulu National Memorial Cemetery.

Japan has been our allies and they have been trying, for decades, to apologize.

I wonder if those people who are so ready to bring up the past relations would say the same thing about England? They were our enemies once too.

Japan does not deserve this. They deserve help. They deserve forgiveness too ... and <this> American hopes they get it.

Yes, that is nutty.