Why - Why the Medical Society constantly pressure on the Parents?

[FreeThinker]

Bilingual bimodal deaf people seems to statstically score higher on language tests compared to monolingual deaf people, either spoken og sign language, in addition to have a larger number of people to interact with, as well as close friends. The findings are very close for both CI, HA and stone deaf people. It simply does not make sense to choose oral education. Oral TODs have said ".. but it's better now!" for 130 years, while children with newer CI implants in mainstream schools have as few friends as they had in the heydays of HA. It's so tiring for many of us in the deaf society that have to take care of all those oral failures seeking out us. Can it be you don't see the waste oral education creates as you aren't living in the deaf world?

This is in accordance of the research by Strong and Prinz (1997). They studied 160 deaf students in schools. They found that students with strong and moderate ASL skills scored higher on literacy skills than students with weak ASL skills. This reinforces the inderdependence of two languages. Dr. Jim Cummins (1984) notes that students with stronger first language base would master second language better than students with weak first langage placed in second language environment. So I feel it is cruical for babies to be exposed in two language for maximum language development.

 

[rick48]

This is in accordance of the research by Strong and Prinz (1997). They studied 160 deaf students in schools. They found that students with strong and moderate ASL skills scored higher on literacy skills than students with weak ASL skills. This reinforces the inderdependence of two languages. Dr. Jim Cummins (1984) notes that students with stronger first language base would master second language better than students with weak first langage placed in second language environment. So I feel it is cruical for babies to be exposed in two language for maximum language development.

Can I ask what are they comparing these students to? Students with strong and moderate English language skills would score higher on literacy tests than students with weak English language skills.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

One mode of language is a spoken one, the other mode is a sign language. A bilingual deaf person can master two spoken languages, or two sign languages, while a bimodal bilingual knows at least one spoken and one sign language. Bimodal is a basic and well known term.

Bilingual bimodal deaf people seems to statstically score higher on language tests compared to monolingual deaf people, either spoken og sign language, in addition to have a larger number of people to interact with, as well as close friends. The findings are very close for both CI, HA and stone deaf people. It simply does not make sense to choose oral education. Oral TODs have said ".. but it's better now!" for 130 years, while children with newer CI implants in mainstream schools have as few friends as they had in the heydays of HA. It's so tiring for many of us in the deaf society that have to take care of all those oral failures seeking out us. Can it be you don't see the waste oral education creates as you aren't living in the deaf world?

Flip, you know I think almost any education method could work if the parents believed in it and did everything in their power to help their child. I know that is why my children are so successful because I believe in them and do what every I can to help.
I am not sure about the rest of the country but here in California we have the high school exit exam. The high schoolers first take it in 10th grade most do not pass the first time. Well my daughter took and passed it the 1st time.
JUst goes back to the parents.

 

[FreeThinker]

Can I ask what are they comparing these students to? Students with strong and moderate English language skills would score higher on literacy tests than students with weak English language skills.

They were comparing students with strong and moderate ASL skills with students with weak ASL skills on literacy skills. There is a strong corrleation between ASL and English literacy at least during the early stages of language development. The theory is that these students are bridging their prior knowledge using their more accessible visual language (ASL) with less accessible auditory language (English). These students are connecting the concpets in ASL with English. I know there are people who disagree with this idea.

 

[Secretblend]

That comment is insulting to many deaf people. It is that kind of view we are against and fighting against. Just like how AGBell portrayed in the letter to Pepsi. Why do u think some people in the Deaf community are angry and using that anger against CIs? Maybe it is cuz people like u make these kinds of comments.

Come on...that is wrong.

"Children who can hear have more options" that is a dangerous message to potential parents, to those children who dont qualify for implants nor benefit from them, those who were unable to develop oral language.

Yes, I believe in providing both but if for some reason some children are unable to benefit from their CIs, develop spoken language..the most important thing is that they are NOT language deprived. Chidlren who are language delayed are the ones who have less options ..doesnt matter if they can hear or not.

I do not see that as an insult! I think it is wonderful that he's trying to provide all he is able to for his kids. We are living in a world that most people can hear and that is the norm. We happen to be Deaf living in a hearing world. There is no denying that fact. What is wrong with getting all the help we need to function the best we can in the hearing world? As of now, there is no cure but CI and hearing aids are best we got to blend into the hearing world the best we can and we should take advantage of it if possible.

 

[shel90]

One mode of language is a spoken one, the other mode is a sign language. A bilingual deaf person can master two spoken languages, or two sign languages, while a bimodal bilingual knows at least one spoken and one sign language. Bimodal is a basic and well known term.

Bilingual bimodal deaf people seems to statstically score higher on language tests compared to monolingual deaf people, either spoken og sign language, in addition to have a larger number of people to interact with, as well as close friends. The findings are very close for both CI, HA and stone deaf people. It simply does not make sense to choose oral education. Oral TODs have said ".. but it's better now!" for 130 years, while children with newer CI implants in mainstream schools have as few friends as they had in the heydays of HA. It's so tiring for many of us in the deaf society that have to take care of all those oral failures seeking out us. Can it be you don't see the waste oral education creates as you aren't living in the deaf world?

I was raised orally with no sign language exposure so I am sorry for being a burden to the Deaf community for having to take care of me when I sought you all out. However, I am very very appreciative though.

 

[shel90]

I do not see that as an insult! I think it is wonderful that he's trying to provide all he is able to for his kids. We are living in a world that most people can hear and that is the norm. We happen to be Deaf living in a hearing world. There is no denying that fact. What is wrong with getting all the help we need to function the best we can in the hearing world? As of now, there is no cure but CI and hearing aids are best we got to blend into the hearing world the best we can and we should take advantage of it if possible.

Getting the kids implanted wasnt taken as an insult. The comment about how they have more opportunities because they have an implant was what I was referring to.

I dont see anything wrong with getting the help but to compare deaf children like that. I dont like it. That's my opinion.

 

[shel90]

This is in accordance of the research by Strong and Prinz (1997). They studied 160 deaf students in schools. They found that students with strong and moderate ASL skills scored higher on literacy skills than students with weak ASL skills. This reinforces the inderdependence of two languages. Dr. Jim Cummins (1984) notes that students with stronger first language base would master second language better than students with weak first langage placed in second language environment. So I feel it is cruical for babies to be exposed in two language for maximum language development.

That's why I believe in the BiBi approach the most.

 

[rick48]

They were comparing students with strong and moderate ASL skills with students with weak ASL skills on literacy skills. There is a strong corrleation between ASL and English literacy at least during the early stages of language development. The theory is that these students are bridging their prior knowledge using their more accessible visual language (ASL) with less accessible auditory language (English). These students are connecting the concpets in ASL with English. I know there are people who disagree with this idea.

I will try to find and read it but I am not buying the premise that overall a deaf child with strong ASL skills tests higher in English literacy than a deaf child with strong English skills and weak ASL skills. While it may be possible during the early stages of language development, it certainly does not correlate to the 4th grade reading level of deaf high school graduates.

 

[FreeThinker]

I will try to find and read it but I am not buying the premise that overall a deaf child with strong ASL skills tests higher in English literacy than a deaf child with strong English skills and weak ASL skills. While it may be possible during the early stages of language development, it certainly does not correlate to the 4th grade reading level of deaf high school graduates.

It is true that the average reading of deaf graduates is around 4th grade. We need to think outside the box to find a way to increase the reading ability of deaf children. We need to understand why so few deaf students are able to read at their current grade level while most of deaf students are behind in their reading levels. The late Dr. Frank Bowe suggested that those who are able to have full accessible language during pre-school years enter school with language ready. Yet, there are some of those with very limited language input enter school with almost no language. Language-ready students would use prior knowledge to connect with new concepts given in classrooms. Teachers often had to give long elaboration of concepts given in classroom to match to the level of language-ready students. That is something we need to work on pre school deaf children.

FYI, only a small percentage of schools for the deaf in the United States are truly embracing Deaf bilingual-bicultural educational philosophy. I am open to any ideas or suggestions that would raise deaf reading levels dramatically. The 4th grade level reading average for deaf graduates still bother me. I have been a teacher in schools for the deaf, I have noticed several important factors making students more successful:
1. Parental support (probably number one factor)
2. Full communication access at home
3. Language-rich (both languages) environment at home and school
4. Instill internal motivation in students
5. Give students sense of pride, purpose, and belongness

 

[flip]

Flip, you know I think almost any education method could work if the parents believed in it and did everything in their power to help their child. I know that is why my children are so successful because I believe in them and do what every I can to help.
I am not sure about the rest of the country but here in California we have the high school exit exam. The high schoolers first take it in 10th grade most do not pass the first time. Well my daughter took and passed it the 1st time.
JUst goes back to the parents.

I agree that your involvment, not method, have made your children "successful". According to modern pedagogy and linqustics, your children would be even more "succesfull" if you had raised them bimodal bilingual, but that's too late now. Hope I did not insult you again, but we have to look at the facts.

 

[flip]

I do not see that as an insult! I think it is wonderful that he's trying to provide all he is able to for his kids. We are living in a world that most people can hear and that is the norm. We happen to be Deaf living in a hearing world. There is no denying that fact. What is wrong with getting all the help we need to function the best we can in the hearing world? As of now, there is no cure but CI and hearing aids are best we got to blend into the hearing world the best we can and we should take advantage of it if possible.

He has denied sign language as a development tool to his kids. I don't see anyone except oralists saying that deaf people shouldn't get all the help they can get to function in a hearing world? Bimodal bilingualism gives everything to deaf children. Oralism cuts of their hands, making them depedent on speech alone.

 

[rick48]

It is true that the average reading of deaf graduates is around 4th grade. We need to think outside the box to find a way to increase the reading ability of deaf children. We need to understand why so few deaf students are able to read at their current grade level while most of deaf students are behind in their reading levels. The late Dr. Frank Bowe suggested that those who are able to have full accessible language during pre-school years enter school with language ready. Yet, there are some of those with very limited language input enter school with almost no language. Language-ready students would use prior knowledge to connect with new concepts given in classrooms. Teachers often had to give long elaboration of concepts given in classroom to match to the level of language-ready students. That is something we need to work on pre school deaf children.

FYI, only a small percentage of schools for the deaf in the United States are truly embracing Deaf bilingual-bicultural educational philosophy. I am open to any ideas or suggestions that would raise deaf reading levels dramatically. The 4th grade level reading average for deaf graduates still bother me. I have been a teacher in schools for the deaf, I have noticed several important factors making students more successful:
1. Parental support (probably number one factor)
2. Full communication access at home
3. Language-rich (both languages) environment at home and school
4. Instill internal motivation in students
5. Give students sense of pride, purpose, and belongness

I would definitely agree with you on points 1, 2, 4 and 5 and agree with you on #3 to the extent that there is a language-rich environment at home but not necessarily two languages.
Rick

 

[shel90]

It is true that the average reading of deaf graduates is around 4th grade. We need to think outside the box to find a way to increase the reading ability of deaf children. We need to understand why so few deaf students are able to read at their current grade level while most of deaf students are behind in their reading levels. The late Dr. Frank Bowe suggested that those who are able to have full accessible language during pre-school years enter school with language ready. Yet, there are some of those with very limited language input enter school with almost no language. Language-ready students would use prior knowledge to connect with new concepts given in classrooms. Teachers often had to give long elaboration of concepts given in classroom to match to the level of language-ready students. That is something we need to work on pre school deaf children.

FYI, only a small percentage of schools for the deaf in the United States are truly embracing Deaf bilingual-bicultural educational philosophy. I am open to any ideas or suggestions that would raise deaf reading levels dramatically. The 4th grade level reading average for deaf graduates still bother me. I have been a teacher in schools for the deaf, I have noticed several important factors making students more successful:
1. Parental support (probably number one factor)
2. Full communication access at home
3. Language-rich (both languages) environment at home and school
4. Instill internal motivation in students
5. Give students sense of pride, purpose, and belongness

Regarding to #3

I know not all parents will learn sign language for their children who are unable to pick up spoken language so if they dont get the language-rich environment at home, at least they can get it at their school as opposed to an oral-only environment. I see this too many times to count when we get students referred to our school at a later age.

That is why I strongly believe in putting all young children at their language development ages in a bibi program to ensure that no child is language deprived. I think the oral-only method is just too risking as I mentioned about older kids finally learning sign language after struggling with spoken language for years.

 

[flip]

I was raised orally with no sign language exposure so I am sorry for being a burden to the Deaf community for having to take care of me when I sought you all out. However, I am very very appreciative though.

LOL. I am glad you found the deaf community, and am happy for everyone else that find themselves, in or outside the deaf community. Deafhood

 

[jackiesolorzano]

I agree that your involvment, not method, have made your children "successful". According to modern pedagogy and linqustics, your children would be even more "succesfull" if you had raised them bimodal bilingual, but that's too late now. Hope I did not insult you again, but we have to look at the facts.

No Flip you are not insulting me you have a right to your opinion and you do not state in an insulting manner. I do disagree with you. I do not think that my children would be more successful if then have both languages. My son is in honors classes and reads a grade level above his grade. My daughter has a 3.3 GPA and is in 11th grade. She passed the high school exit exam first time she took it. There is a high school TC program close by our home. Last year they had 9 high school deaf kids graduate and only 1 passed this test and this person who passed took it 3 times my daughter on the first time she passed it. All of these students were exposed to both languages.

 

[shel90]

No Flip you are not insulting me you have a right to your opinion and you do not state in an insulting manner. I do disagree with you. I do not think that my children would be more successful if then have both languages. My son is in honors classes and reads a grade level above his grade. My daughter has a 3.3 GPA and is in 11th grade. She passed the high school exit exam first time she took it. There is a high school TC program close by our home. Last year they had 9 high school deaf kids graduate and only 1 passed this test and this person who passed took it 3 times my daughter on the first time she passed it. All of these students were exposed to both languages.

Funny...I see the opposite here in MD.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

It is true that the average reading of deaf graduates is around 4th grade. We need to think outside the box to find a way to increase the reading ability of deaf children.

WHen I was told back 15 years ago that my children would not read above a 3rd grade that is what scared me the most. So I did think outside the box, I decided then to stop working and go on public assistance for a couplf of years to stay at home with my children to help them develop. It was hard but it was worth it. My children are still in high school reading at a 10th grade level.

We need to understand why so few deaf students are able to read at their current grade level while most of deaf students are behind in their reading levels. The late Dr. Frank Bowe suggested that those who are able to have full accessible language during pre-school years enter school with language ready. Yet, there are some of those with very limited language input enter school with almost no language. Language-ready students would use prior knowledge to connect with new concepts given in classrooms. Teachers often had to give long elaboration of concepts given in classroom to match to the level of language-ready students. That is something we need to work on pre school deaf children.

This age is so important and this is why I work with oral deaf preschools with CIs, to help teach their parents what they need to do at home.

FYI, only a small percentage of schools for the deaf in the United States are truly embracing Deaf bilingual-bicultural educational philosophy. I am open to any ideas or suggestions that would raise deaf reading levels dramatically. The 4th grade level reading average for deaf graduates still bother me. I have been a teacher in schools for the deaf, I have noticed several important factors making students more successful:
1. Parental support (probably number one factor)
2. Full communication access at home
3. Language-rich environment at home and school
4. Instill internal motivation in students
5. Give students sense of pride, purpose, and belongness

I agree with all of these statement as you can see I made a small change to 3 but other then this is why my children are so successful because I did follow this model and made sure thier schools did also.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Funny...I see the opposite here in MD.

Shel maybe the deaf schools in MD are different. If the schools out where you are better then here you should talk to your admin. and tell them to come out and inservice the program in Riverside and Covina Valley TC program. They need help.

 

[shel90]

Shel maybe the deaf schools in MD are different. If the schools out where you are better then here you should talk to your admin. and tell them to come out and inservice the program in Riverside and Covina Valley TC program. They need help.

Yea...but the problem is California doesnt allow BiBi education, right?

*Seems like this thread got soo way off topic so Kalista, let me know if u want me to stay on topic or is this ok? Thanks