Why adults choose CI's for their children

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BUT the CI is a technology that makes sound and speech accessable in ways that were never possible in the past. Through improved hearing comes improved speech/listening outcomes.

Improved does not, in any way, imply that they do not still need support services nor that they are able to perceive and produce spoken language at the same rate as their hearing peers.

And CI has nothing to do with early intervention. EI is not limited to those with a CI.

And improved hearing does not always lead to improved speech/listening outcomes.
 
I am not only talking about research, I am also talking about peoples opinions on education and the whole "oral, speech, ci" issue.

My first ASL teacher told me that speech therapy was cruel and that no deaf child should ever have to be put through it. While it was true in his experience, it is surely not the same today.

What makes you think that it isn't the same today? There are many today that consider their speech therapy to be a royal pain in the a**.

And, unless one bases their opinion on research, they really aren't looking at the whole picture, nor are they seeing the reality. They are simply looking at one or two anecdotal stories, and basing a generalized opinion on that. That is where the errors lie.
 
It sure isn't for my child.

My teacher stopped speech at 5, which is the same age as my daughter is now. She loves speech, she comes running when I pick her up to take her to speech signing, "hurry let's go to speech". I watch her through the glass as she plays the games and laughs, and has a merry time.

And just because it isn't for your child in no way implies that the situation with your child can be generalized to an entire population. That is the whole point. Research uses a sample that is representative of the population being studied, and therefore, results can be generalized to a majority. One child in one situation is indicative of nothing more than one child in one situation.
 
So, the reason that deaf children have trouble listening and speaking is NOT related to the fact that they can not hear? Interesting. Then why can so many hearing children do it so easily.
 
So, the reason that deaf children have trouble listening and speaking is NOT related to the fact that they can not hear? Interesting. Then why can so many hearing children do it so easily.

Where in the world did you find that statement? Or is that your conclusion?
 
And just because it isn't for your child in no way implies that the situation with your child can be generalized to an entire population. That is the whole point. Research uses a sample that is representative of the population being studied, and therefore, results can be generalized to a majority. One child in one situation is indicative of nothing more than one child in one situation.

I see why so many give up. You truly refuse to even attempt to look at it from another's perspective. They are wrong and you are right. It is as simple as that to you.
 
Where in the world did you find that statement? Or is that your conclusion?

That is my sarcasm encroaching.

The thread was supposed to be about why parents implant their children. I have given a dozen reasons why, some bad, some understandable. I am a hearing parent who uses ASL and values the Deaf community. I have also chosen to implant my child in less than two weeks. If I am to be demonized and called selfish for that, so be it. CI's are not going away, if the Deaf community is unwilling to accept hearing parents who chose them and children who use them, that I suppose is their loss. I am glad the community in my area is more open minded than here.
 
I see why so many give up. You truly refuse to even attempt to look at it from another's perspective. They are wrong and you are right. It is as simple as that to you.

It is not that I refuse to look at it from another's perspective at all. In fact, I have to look at it from another's perspective when I study the research, and advocate for deaf students. I am not deaf. I have to constantly strive to take another's perspective.

And I did not say you were wrong. You may very well be right when it comes to the limited situations regarding your 1 child. But your singular experience with that 1 child cannot be used as evidence to decide for the whole population. That is why we do research with representative samples. To make the findings generalizable and applicable to those in the population. It would of course, be much easier if all that was needed was the observations of a couple of parents based on what they believe they see from one child, but it simply isn't valid as a research method. Even with descriptive case studies, observation must be done by a professional capable of properly interpreting that which is being observed.
 
Are you sure about that?

I have certainly had plenty of speech therapy. I don't think it was cruel. What was your experience with speech therapy that makes you think it is cruel, OceanBreeze?

My speech may not be perfect, but certainly I am glad I had speech therapy and can speak.:confused:
 
That is my sarcasm encroaching.

The thread was supposed to be about why parents implant their children. I have given a dozen reasons why, some bad, some understandable. I am a hearing parent who uses ASL and values the Deaf community. I have also chosen to implant my child in less than two weeks. If I am to be demonized and called selfish for that, so be it. CI's are not going away, if the Deaf community is unwilling to accept hearing parents who chose them and children who use them, that I suppose is their loss. I am glad the community in my area is more open minded than here.

And I have provided published and valid research that addressed just that question, and have related the findings of such.

I don't know where you are getting this "demonized" and "selfish". I haven't seen those words used to describe you at all. Nor have I seen, or used, those words to describe any parent that chooses a CI for their child.

The Deaf community has made great strides in accepting the cochlear implant. There are very few hard line radicals remaining. I was around in the days when acceptance was nil. The community on AD is, as well, very accepting and open minded regarding children with CIs. The majority here agree that the CI can be a very useful devise, and the majority here are also very much in agreement that oral skills are something that every deaf person needs to develop if they are capable of doing so. If you will also check backwards you will find that I have praised you for continuing ASL following the projected implant. You seem to confusing the need for educational accommodation with a rejection of a child with an implant, and that is simply not the case.
 
I have certainly had plenty of speech therapy. I don't think it was cruel. What was your experience with speech therapy that makes you think it is cruel, OceanBreeze?

My speech may not be perfect, but certainly I am glad I had speech therapy and can speak.:confused:

I'm not knocking it, and maybe the word "cruel" is a loaded word... But, as a child who's had therapy alot as a child, I certainly found it boring and it did absolutely NOTHING for my social development. I sacrificed alot of recesses to therapy growing up and it was anything but fun. It helped me, but it also hindered me in alot more ways.
 
I see why so many give up. You truly refuse to even attempt to look at it from another's perspective. They are wrong and you are right. It is as simple as that to you.

You get it. Sorry that is why so many just stop posting, instead of being able to learn from each other, we get bullied. It is a shame. Well good luck with your daughter's surgery(I will check your blog regularly for updates). Children bounce back quicker than adults.
 
That is my sarcasm encroaching.

The thread was supposed to be about why parents implant their children. I have given a dozen reasons why, some bad, some understandable. I am a hearing parent who uses ASL and values the Deaf community. I have also chosen to implant my child in less than two weeks. If I am to be demonized and called selfish for that, so be it. CI's are not going away, if the Deaf community is unwilling to accept hearing parents who chose them and children who use them, that I suppose is their loss. I am glad the community in my area is more open minded than here.

Like Jillo said, the Deaf community is more accepting of CIs but the question are parents of implanted children as readily accepting of ASL and the Deaf community's values? That's the BIG question.
 
You get it. Sorry that is why so many just stop posting, instead of being able to learn from each other, we get bullied. It is a shame. Well good luck with your daughter's surgery(I will check your blog regularly for updates). Children bounce back quicker than adults.

Should we look at everything from the success of few and apply educational policies based on few cases?

Get bullied? Nobody is threatening anyone nor calling anyone names unless I missed something.
 
I see why so many give up. You truly refuse to even attempt to look at it from another's perspective. They are wrong and you are right. It is as simple as that to you.

Since Jillo is looking at a population from a whole and if she is wrong, then do we start making educational policies for a majority based on a few cases?

That is where I am seeing the conflict between many...many look at from one or few cases and try to apply it to a population while Jillo is looking from a whole population to apply it to a whole population. Nobody is right or wrong but we honestly cant make educational policies based on a few cases, can we?
 
Since Jillo is looking at a population from a whole and if she is wrong, then do we start making educational policies for a majority based on a few cases?

That is where I am seeing the conflict between many...many look at from one or few cases and try to apply it to a population while Jillo is looking from a whole population to apply it to a whole population. Nobody is right or wrong but we honestly cant make educational policies based on a few cases, can we?

That is the whole point. We cannot look at one or two cases, and then say, "Well, this is the way it is for the majority of children with CIs, so we will set policy based on these two." Likewise, what we hear of these one or two cases is by and large anecdotal. Even these two cases would no doubt turn up some surprising results if they were to participate in a controlled study that used valid measurement rather than hopeful observation that is related second hand. This is why we obtain data from the individual, and not from the parent, the brother, the sister, or another observer who colors the data with their own expectations. I, not long ago, posted the results of a study that took data from the parents regarding their perceptions of their deaf child's social functioning, and then data from the child regarding their perceptions of their own social functioning just to illustrate that what the parents believe to be true for their child is not the same as what the child believes to be true for themselves.

I fail to see how making the newest research information available so that not just parents, but those educators that are responsible for the success and the academic achievement of deaf students can use the term "bullying". How is it bullying to take the time to make information available to those should, in all reality, be searching it out for themselves? Is it bullying because the information challenges the status quo, or takes the rosy color out of the glasses people tend to wear? Is it bulllying because it presents an accurrate picture of what the majority of deaf children experience in the educational environment? Is it bullying to push for the changes that will allow deaf children to function to the best of their abilities rather than sticking tothe same old policies that prevent them from reading on grade level, from developing critical thinking skills, and from developing native fluency with language? The sad facts of deaf education over the last 30 years speak for themselves. If it is bullying to refuse to accept less than adequate education for any deaf child, then yes, I am a bully. If it is bullying to demand that deaf students receive those accommodations that allow them access to the curriculum that hearing peers receive, then yes, I am a bully. And if it is being a bully to point out where the system is failing our deaf children academically and socially, then yes, I'm a bully. And I will be a bully until the day I die for that cause. Deaf kids deserve it. I am sick to death of people sticking to the status quo just because its the easy way out. I amsick to death of people accepting less than the deaf child deserves and is entitled to just because it is more comfortable. That does nothing, absolutely nothing, to improve the educational or the psychosocial circumstances of the deaf child. If speaking out and working to initiate those changes that have been shown, time and time again, to be a benefit to the deaf child eductionally, socially, psychologically, and linguistically makes me a bully in some people's eyes, then so be it. When a deaf student comes to me and thanks me for understanding, or for going to bat for them against administrative policy that served to restrict them, I'm damned proud to be a bully, because it is that deaf student that is my main concern.

I have a question that will no doubt get me banned, but I am going to ask it again. Why is it, instead of opening their minds and actually attempting to process information that is available through research, people resort to name calling in an attempt to refute it? Why is it that people claim to have the best interest of children at heart, yet totally ignore the information that could actually benefit the children they claim to be concerned about? Is it because it is easier just to hang onto outdated methodologies and ideas that have been shown, time and time again to be less than effective? Or is it because they simply don't want to put forth the effort to learn? Is it just more comfortable to accept less than adequate educational policy for deaf children than to speak out against the inequality?
 
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Why should u get banned? U r asking honest and straightforward questions. I thought people get banned for name calling or threatening others? :confused:
 
Why should u get banned? U r asking honest and straightforward questions. I thought people get banned for name calling or threatening others? :confused:

I don't know. It just appears that people ask for research to back up our position, and when research is provided, the name calling starts, and we are all of a sudden bullies. We get accused of "demonizing" and calling people "selfish" when nothing even close to that has happened. People say that want to learn, they want to know what the latest research shows, and when it is provided, they get all emotional and accuse people of attacking them, just because the research shows something different than what they have decided they want to believe. I am beginning to believe that no one want to know what the research says, and that it is only requested because they think it can't be found. When it is found, rather than saying, "Oh, that's new information I probably should take a serious look at" they accuse those of providing the information of bullying. Talk about shooting the messenger!
 
And just a reminder: I learned ASL because I knew that my daughter needed a language that was accessable right from the start. She has never gained much from her aids, so spoken language was never an option, until now. With her CI she will have a new opportunity with speech that she has never had before. I am lucky that I am extremely bright and good with language and so I was able to become proficient in ASL very quickly. But many are not blessed with the same capacity. I do believe that it is a parent's job to reach the child where they are at, and that is why ASL is the language of our home. But that doesn't mean that I am as good in ASL as I would be if I were communicating in my native language. Though my daughter does not have a language delay, I am POSITIVE that she would be much further along if she was able to interact with me and learn from me in a language I have full mastery of. Her intellegence is high above the level she is functioning at, and that is PURELY because she does not have fluent language models in the home. CI parents simply want to avoid that by interacting with their child in their native language.
Perfect. You have captured exactly what I am talking about when I say exposure to a rich fluent language. Thank you!!
 
Fine go ahead..but understand that ASL is critical for the child..think of the children first, pls. They are deaf, not hearing.

The view was the same for me but I was the one who paid the heavy price. Even if I was implanted, I am sure I wouldnt have the same equal access to language, communication, and education and my hearing counterparts did.
I respect your opinion but we both know that nobody has a crystal ball you you really can only speculate on what may have happened if your parents chose a CI for you early on in life. If you believe your own speculation then how can you account for the many success stories that we hear about?
 
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