Why adults choose CI's for their children

[jazzy]

R2D2, u do not get what he say when I say I feel sorry for him on other forum when he judged us as anti-hearing losers. He may be deaf but I was once hearing. I find that odd coming out from DODA to lashing at his own culture while I am no part of deaf cutlure. He does not know a life shit about living in hearing world (growing up in hearing family) as I do. Even he has CI on his kids then good for them but still won't make them better than me and others without CI in hearing world. Whatever. u judge me too.

 

[ashleysmommy]

Ashleysmommy, I think you are doing a great job with your daughter, you are doing just wonderful and fine with her!

Thank you very much Lucia. I would like to say that everyone that has given me advice or suggestions to HELP me with Ashley and to help with our new journey I am grateful. I am glad I had a place to go for such great people to talk to. All of the encouragement has helped me stay focused on what is important and that is Ashley. Thanks to all again.

 

[rockdrummer]

Yes I do not compare the parents of CI toddlers here with a person, I met at 5 weeks spa but share those story because I noticed some parents of CI toddlers label us as "anti-CI" because we beleive to support child's choice.

A child is not capable of understanding the complexities involved with such a profound decision. Think about it. If you gave your child the choice to go to bed on time or stay up and watch cartoons all night which do you think the child would choose? If you gave a child a choice to either eat their vegtables or eat candy which do you think they would choose. If you gave a child a choice to go to school or go play on the playground all day, which do you think they would choose. My point is that a child is not capable of making a wise choice with such a profound decision.

Yes, I can understand your point that many parents implanted their babies/toddlers with CI because of their future but to me, it's easy for the parents to implant them with CI because babies/toddlers can't say NO but young children can.

No No No... That is NOT the reason. Read through this thread if you want to know the reasons. Read my posts and the reasons that were involved for our situation. If you read carefully you will see that the reasons vary in almost every situation. It's not as cut and dry as you seem to make it out to be. The people that come up with the propostrous reasoning are the ones that have never been faced with the diffucult decision. I hear nonsense like; You don't accept your child for being deaf, You take the easy way out because you don't want to learn sign, You force your child because he can't say no, You should let the toddler/child decide. Those may be reasons that some partents make the choices for but I can assure you they are the minority. I would venture to guess that the folks in this thread do not fall into that catagory. If they did they would not even be here trying to educate themselves to make an informed decision.

They beleive that babies/toddlers's hearing/speech development with CI is the best successful than HA but it's not really true... I have seen many HA who can speak/hear successful as well... Yes I know CI techology is better but the people who wear HA develop also successful as well... CI doesn't work on some of CI users...but HA does

Those comments don't make any sense to me. After all of the discussions and wars and debates on CI's you don't understand that if someone can benefit from an HA then they are NOT a candidate for a CI. I don't have any problem accepting your opinions but please educate yourself on the subject first. And if the criteria is different in Germany then I apologize for my assumption.

I have seen many young children here in Germany, for want to have CI, some not which is good. A lot of parents respect their young children's decision... and some not. It's not too late for young children to develop their speech/hear as what a lot of parents thought.

It's not about parents respecting their childs decision. It's about the child being capable of making a decision that is in their best interest. The child will always choose candy over vegtables.

At Spa, I learn many things... They closed deaf schools more and more to HOH school where some CI joins here in Germany. I also noticed more and more CI children join hearing school which is really sad.

Why is that sad? Why is it sad for a child to assimilate with mainstream education. Perhaps you think it's sad because you belive it to be a reduction in the D/deaf culture.

 

[Hear Again]

"When Ashley was born we were told she only had a 20% chance to make it. They warned us of any and all possibilities of disabilities she could face. They asked us if we wanted them to resusatate (excuse the spelling) her at birth. We did not hesitate this was our baby girl and I wanted her to have every chance at life. We found out at 2 months old she was developing ROP and required eye surgery that could save her vision. This surgery worked for a month and her condition worsened. We then required a lens sparing surgery to keep her retinas from detaching. Thank GOD this stabilized for now. She then at about 8 months old developed Glaucoma in both eyes due to the lens surgery. She has had 3 surgeries to get her eye pressures under control. This also is now stable. I had to consent to these surgeries for my daughter to save her vision so she would not go blind. Does this make me a bad parent because I decided to save my daughters vision instead of accepting her as blind? It is the same to me. Hearing, Blind it doesnt matter we as parents have the responsibility to make decision for our children until they are able to make them for themselves. We do what we feel is the best for our children. Not your or any one else's children but our own. I know I will be explaining a lot to Ashley when she is old enough to understand. Like how she is even here. She is my miracle and I thank GOD for her every day and I am going to fight with everything I have in me to make sure she has every possibility to live a happy and full life. What ever it may hold for her. Like I said does this make me a bad parent?

Ashleysmommy,

All I can say is wow! After I read this, I felt as if I were reading my own biography! As you know, I was also born prematurely (25 weeks) and had several eye surgeries in the hopes of saving my vision. Unfortunately, the surgeries were unsuccessful due to the fact that my retinas had already detached as a result of ROP, but you can bet that my parents did everything they could to give me the best chances for being able to see.

My chances of survival were felt to be quite poor and I almost died twice. My sister told me not too long ago that my parents paid for a majority of my medical care out of pocket because insurance wouldn't cover the cost.

For example, I needed reconstructive surgery on my forehead at age 3 and 5 due to a severe scar that was left behind from the pressure of the respirator mask.

Although my eye surgeries were unsuccessful, I'm so very thankful for the efforts of my parents to do everything they could to ensure that I had a happy and healthy life. When I think about how my parents spent their hard earned money on my medical care (especially given the fact my father had a heart condition that also required medical attention), it makes me cry at the thought of how much they loved me enough to do that.

I applaud you for everything you are doing for Ashley. Please do not let the opinions of others discourage you. One day Ashley is going to thank you for everything you've done for her.

I have no doubt that she's going to grow up to be a strong, healthy, independent woman thanks to your efforts.

 

[rockdrummer]

Nowadays, letting the child iself decide to go for CI or not is not giving the child the same choice. The rate of success with CI drops dramatically after 3 years. (I have posted references to thise kind of studies before, so I will not do it here... Anybody wants them, just PM me..) By the time the child can make it's own choice, it has established other means of communication and social connections.

Thanks for that reminder. As many times as that has been pointed out it amazes me that it's overlooked or ignored or dismissed. And if it's not known by a given individual then perhaps they should educate themselves on the subject a little more in detail before offering an opinion. That would make for a more productive discussion IMO.

 

[rockdrummer]

I applaud you for everything you are doing for Ashley. Please do not let the opinions of others discourage you. One day Ashley is going to thank you for everything you've done for her. I have no doubt that she's going to grow up to be a strong, healthy, independent woman thanks to your efforts.

I second that and I was nearly in tears as I read your post. It was very moving. I can feel the love that you have for your child through your words. I know first hand how heartwrenching it is to put a infant through any surgury so I know it's not a decision that is taken lightly. Anybody that says you don't accept your child by because of what you are doing is clearly suffering from, (the politically correct version) cranial rectal insertion. The last sentence was intended to make you smile.

 

[ashleysmommy]

"When Ashley was born we were told she only had a 20% chance to make it. They warned us of any and all possibilities of disabilities she could face. They asked us if we wanted them to resusatate (excuse the spelling) her at birth. We did not hesitate this was our baby girl and I wanted her to have every chance at life. We found out at 2 months old she was developing ROP and required eye surgery that could save her vision. This surgery worked for a month and her condition worsened. We then required a lens sparing surgery to keep her retinas from detaching. Thank GOD this stabilized for now. She then at about 8 months old developed Glaucoma in both eyes due to the lens surgery. She has had 3 surgeries to get her eye pressures under control. This also is now stable. I had to consent to these surgeries for my daughter to save her vision so she would not go blind. Does this make me a bad parent because I decided to save my daughters vision instead of accepting her as blind? It is the same to me. Hearing, Blind it doesn't matter we as parents have the responsibility to make decision for our children until they are able to make them for themselves. We do what we feel is the best for our children. Not your or any one else's children but our own. I know I will be explaining a lot to Ashley when she is old enough to understand. Like how she is even here. She is my miracle and I thank GOD for her every day and I am going to fight with everything I have in me to make sure she has every possibility to live a happy and full life. What ever it may hold for her. Like I said does this make me a bad parent?

Ashleysmommy,

All I can say is wow! After I read this, I felt as if I were reading my own biography! As you know, I was also born prematurely (25 weeks) and had several eye surgeries in the hopes of saving my vision. Unfortunately, the surgeries were unsuccessful due to the fact that my retinas had already detached as a result of ROP, but you can bet that my parents did everything they could to give me the best chances for being able to see.

My chances of survival were felt to be quite poor and I almost died twice. My sister told me not too long ago that my parents paid for a majority of my medical care out of pocket because insurance wouldn't cover the cost.

For example, I needed reconstructive surgery on my forehead at age 3 and 5 due to a severe scar that was left behind from the pressure of the respirator mask.

Although my eye surgeries were unsuccessful, I'm so very thankful for the efforts of my parents to do everything they could to ensure that I had a happy and healthy life. When I think about how my parents spent their hard earned money on my medical care (especially given the fact my father had a heart condition that also required medical attention), it makes me cry at the thought of how much they loved me enough to do that.

I applaud you for everything you are doing for Ashley. Please do not let the opinions of others discourage you. One day Ashley is going to thank you for everything you've done for her.

I have no doubt that she's going to grow up to be a strong, healthy, independent woman thanks to your efforts.

Thank you so much. Ashley is already a strong willed little girl. Sometimes too much for her own good. I just felt I should let it be known that not all of us take things so lightly. We struggle with decisions that have to be made. I have had to quit a 14 year job so Ashley gets to all of her appointments and therapy. We get some assistance but her dad told me that he would do what he had to to make sure we had the things we need for me to take care of her. A great support system is what has pulled me through a bunch of bumps in the road. Ashley also had several times she was in critical condition. She almost had to have heart surgery. We were very lucky with that. We have a great deal in common.

 

[ashleysmommy]

I second that and I was nearly in tears as I read your post. It was very moving. I can feel the love that you have for your child through your words. I know first hand how heartwrenching it is to put a infant through any surgury so I know it's not a decision that is taken lightly. Anybody that says you don't accept your child by because of what you are doing is clearly suffering from, (the politically correct version) cranial rectal insertion. The last sentence was intended to make you smile.
__________________
Weapon of Mass Percussion


Thank you!!! Big smiles all around here.

 

[rockdrummer]

Your child could resent you for you decision.

I know my reasons for choosing a CI for my child. Those of you that have read through this thread also know my reasons. My only hope is that going forward none of the anti-child-CI crowd fills his head with nonsense about us not loving or accepting him for being deaf or because we wanted to take the easy way out.

Each situation has a unique set of circumstances and for that reason; nobody should generalize or make assumptions on why the choice was made. The best way to find out is to simply ask. I wont judge anyone without hearing his or her answer. I’ve not seen one post in this or any thread that leads me to believe the majority of parents make the choice for selfish reasons. On the contrary the reasons I have seen are selfless. They do it out of the deep love only a parent can have for their child and out of what they believe from the bottom of their heart, is in the best interest of their child.

I see that some young adults are resentful that their parents made the decision for them. I can emphasis with them only if their parents chose the CI for selfish reasons.

Because of this newfound knowledge of the resentment, I will talk to my son when he is old enough to understand and explain to him the circumstances that drove our decision. I will also tell him there are some with CI’s that are resentful, and they have the right to be if their parents did it for selfish reasons. We, as any good parents do love our children regardless of their abilities.

 

[Angel]

Wow, many of you brought up some good points in this thread, while Im here I somewhat agree on both sides, so I hope everyone will do the same likewise, it doesn't hurt to learn a thing or two from each others here....

Smile

 

[Liebling:-)))]

A child is not capable of understanding the complexities involved with such a profound decision. Think about it. If you gave your child the choice to go to bed on time or stay up and watch cartoons all night which do you think the child would choose? If you gave a child a choice to either eat their vegtables or eat candy which do you think they would choose. If you gave a child a choice to go to school or go play on the playground all day, which do you think they would choose. My point is that a child is not capable of making a wise choice with such a profound decision.

You can't compare children's education with CI because they are not the same thing. It's parent's job to educate children into good path, not CI surgery.

Those comments don't make any sense to me. After all of the discussions and wars and debates on CI's you don't understand that if someone can benefit from an HA then they are NOT a candidate for a CI. I don't have any problem accepting your opinions but please educate yourself on the subject first. And if the criteria is different in Germany then I apologize for my assumption.

I can see that you take only one side... I took BOTH sides. I had experiences to meet HA and CI users in real life. I have many HA users here in Germany who can speak like HOH and can phone... because they are willing to train to hear the sounds and speak.

Yes, I aware that CI technology is the better one but I beleive to wear my babies with HA first until they familiar with their sounds.... I will support right way if they want to have CI.

It's not about parents respecting their childs decision. It's about the child being capable of making a decision that is in their best interest. The child will always choose candy over vegtables.

Again, CI surgery and children education are not the same thing.

Why is that sad? Why is it sad for a child to assimilate with mainstream education. Perhaps you think it's sad because you belive it to be a reduction in the D/deaf culture.

No, I'm not sad because of loss deaf culture. I'm sad that the parents want their CI children to consider hearing world and want them to be like them to neglect their knowledge of deafness. I'm sad that the parents don't want to learn to sign because their children have CI and hope their children are "hearing" like them. Many hearing parents refused to accept that their children are really deaf and hope they can hear like them and consider hearing world.

 

[rockdrummer]

A child is not capable of understanding the complexities involved with such a profound decision. Think about it. If you gave your child the choice to go to bed on time or stay up and watch cartoons all night which do you think the child would choose? If you gave a child a choice to either eat their vegtables or eat candy which do you think they would choose. If you gave a child a choice to go to school or go play on the playground all day, which do you think they would choose. My point is that a child is not capable of making a wise choice with such a profound decision.

You can't compare children's education with CI because they are not the same thing. It's parent's job to educate children into good path, not CI surgery

I am lost. I was not comparing CI and education but talking about a childs ability to grasp and make an informed decision that is in their best interest.

Those comments don't make any sense to me. After all of the discussions and wars and debates on CI's you don't understand that if someone can benefit from an HA then they are NOT a candidate for a CI. I don't have any problem accepting your opinions but please educate yourself on the subject first. And if the criteria is different in Germany then I apologize for my assumption.

I can see that you take only one side... I took BOTH sides. I had experiences to meet HA and CI users in real life. I have many HA users here in Germany who can speak like HOH and can phone... because they are willing to train to hear the sounds and speak.

I am lost again. Where am I taking only one side. I am suggesting the if the HA's work, then use them and if they are working I don't think you are a candidate for a CI. I belive that is a good thing. I understand that communication is possible without a CI.. I never anywhere said the CI was the only way to communicate. Please, how do you get the impression I take only one side?

Yes, I aware that CI technology is the better one but I beleive to wear my babies with HA first until they familiar with their sounds.... I will support right way if they want to have CI.

What if they have profound loss? HA's will not help. Now it's up to the baby to decide? Or do you wait until the child is older? And if you wait, how long will you wait? At what age do you belive a child is old enough to make such a decision?

It's not about parents respecting their childs decision. It's about the child being capable of making a decision that is in their best interest. The child will always choose candy over vegtables.

Again, CI surgery and children education are not the same thing.

Again, I am lost. I never said it was.

Why is that sad? Why is it sad for a child to assimilate with mainstream education. Perhaps you think it's sad because you belive it to be a reduction in the D-deaf culture.

No, I'm not sad because of loss deaf culture. I'm sad that the parents want their CI children to consider hearing world and want them to be like them to neglect their knowledge of deafness. I'm sad that the parents don't want to learn to sign because their children have CI and hope their children are "hearing" like them. Many hearing parents refused to accept that their children are really deaf and hope they can hear like them and consider hearing world.

The general comments that you have just made are what I am worried about. While you may be correct that SOME parents make the choice for those reasons I can assure you that from my personal experience no ALL parents do. Part of what angers me is when people keep generalizing on the reasons why parents have made the choice and paint them all to be negative and selfish reasons.

 

[rockdrummer]

Clearification on Anti-Child-CI crowd

I was trying to save some typing when I coined the term anti-child-CI crowd in an earlier post found here. I want to be clear that it was not meant in a negative way but I understand that some may have taken in that way. It was much less typing to say that as opposed to "Those that are against a parent making the choice for their child". I meant no disrespect nor am I trying to put a label on anyone. Please forgive me if you took my meaning in the wrong way.

 

[Cloggy]

........You can't compare children's education with CI because they are not the same thing..........

That has never been done. Where does this come from...??

........It's parent's job to educate children into good path, not CI surgery.........

Why would CI-surgery for my daughter NOT be a good path..??

Are you telling me that 1 is wrong and 1 is right??
Are you telling me that a deaf life is right, a hearing life is wrong??

 

[Cloggy]

The general comments that you have just made are what I am worried about. While you may be correct that SOME parents make the choice for those reasons I can assure you that from my personal experience no ALL parents do. Part of what angers me is when people keep generalizing on the reasons why parents have made the choice and paint them all to be negative and selfish reasons.

As a parent of a deaf child with CI, I also have that feeling of every time defending myself. The generalisation is such that it seems that all parents are selfish, "just" operate the child, do not learn sign, think their kid will be stupid etc....
And when I would explain how I never experienced this, the answer will be.... "not you... BUT THE REST OF THE WORLD!!!! "

It is an idea FIXED in d/Deaf world and every time it is put out there without grounds, it adds to this stupid myth. All these parents LOVE their children. They want the best for them and they will do anything for them to get there.

I know about the hardships deaf people had in their life. I know about all the misunderstandings etc. I haven't been there, but I have read about it. That's all I can do!
But historical hardships of d/Deaf people is NOT a reason to choose for CI.
"Saviour" by sign language and Deaf community is NOT a reason to let my child be deaf...

So, do not compare the experiences of 16-year old deaf child with a baby being born deaf.
Do not project your own hardships on a child born deaf.
Do not assume that since life got so much better after you found sign language, that this is a MUST for deaf babies.. IT IS NOT!

Communication is a must. This can be done early by sign, later by speech.

So, stop generalising and LISTEN (pun intended) to the parents that talk to you on this messageboard..

 

[shel90]

Where are all of these bad parents I keep hearing stories about? What exactly is your job that allows you to see this this so much? You know, the parents that made the decision for selfish reasons. I don't see any of them here but only hear stories about them. And how exactly do you see what your child really needs? How old must your child be before you agree he or she is smart enough to make such a profound decision? Do you think a two year old is old enough? If not then how old should a kid be? That is something I have been curious about from those thay say "Let the child decide". At what age would you let the child decide?

My assumption is that those parents are not really interested in deafness to register here and those who are do register here. I can see that those parents are really in denial about their children's deaf needs. It is like anything that has to do with deafness or deaf culture, they just clam up. Pls dont ask me why cuz I cant speak for them. I just can speak from what I encounter.

 

[shel90]

I respect your point but don't generalize your experience as being fact in all cases.

No, we are not generalizing but it is good to get all the negative stuff out so parents of small deaf children can read our postive or negative experiences and I would hope they will keep them in mind if their child ever encounters the same experiences or tries to express their feelings of being left out. I expressed my feelings to my mom about the kids making fun of me, feeling left out, and other stuff and my mom brushed off as typical teenaged stuff. If so, then why did I develop a serious depression in my 20s that I needed therapy? I just want parents to be more sensitive and understand their children's deaf needs cuz we have unique needs that separate us from hearing children. That's all.

 

[R2D2]

My assumption is that those parents are not really interested in deafness to register here and those who are do register here. I can see that those parents are really in denial about their children's deaf needs. It is like anything that has to do with deafness or deaf culture, they just clam up. Pls dont ask me why cuz I cant speak for them. I just can speak from what I encounter.

I think that is a fair comment about those parents. However sometimes the parents on here feel like they are pigeon holed in with those parents you are referring to in real life. I wish people would be a bit more positive about AD parents interest in deaf culture and willingness to learn sign.

I have a friend who works with deaf children in a deaf education unit and she told me that quite a few of the children who sign in her class don't have parents who know how to sign or wish to do so. I was shocked by that. I don't know whether that's common or not but I just think that our AD parents are a cut above them and this needs to be acknowledged. Rather than using them as a vent against bad parenting seen in real life I think they should be praised and cultivated.

 

[shel90]

I think that is a fair comment about those parents. However sometimes the parents on here feel like they are pigeon holed in with those parents you are referring to in real life. I wish people would be a bit more positive about AD parents interest in deaf culture and willingness to learn sign.

I have a friend who works with deaf children in a deaf education unit and she told me that quite a few of the children who sign in her class don't have parents who know how to sign or wish to do so. I was shocked by that. I don't know whether that's common or not but I just think that our AD parents are a cut above them and this needs to be acknowledged. Rather than using them as a vent against bad parenting seen in real life I think they should be praised and cultivated.

Right! That is why I am so happy to see many of the parents here in AD who are willing to accept the fact that their child is still deaf regardless of how well the CIs work. All I just want the parents to watch out for any deaf-related issues while their children are growing up whether it is academically, being left out, feeling isolated, feeling that nobody takes them seriously cuz they are deaf, and many more.

I am sure nowadays people are more educated about deaf people in general and more accepting than my time when I was growing up. My biggest concern is just language delays in children who were born with normal congnitive abilities. I think there is too many children out there that arent recieving a full access to a language and end up struggling for the rest of their lives and then not being able to find good jobs to support themselves. I see too much of that out there.

 

[deafskeptic]

Hence why I always want parents to learn sign just in case. Few things make make me angry but when I see a deaf adult with no language skills and not even signs, I always feel angry. It makes me wonder if their parents cared at all about them.