White privilege

Jiro said:
caste system isn't based on skin color as the deciding factor...... It's by birth. Once you're born as a farmer, you're farmer for life - including your future generations. It's a social stratification, not skin test. That's why they come to America... to rise up thru social ladder.

but yea - we digress..... this is :topic:
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Not the deciding factor but it was a part of the social fabric order in the beginning to even today. The Manu Dharma is one law of the caste systems where skin color (or even race) "Varna" was taken into account (starting on page 10 on "varna" by Prof. Uthaya Naidu - http://www.oration.com/~mm9n/articles/PDF/Aryan Invasion.pdf )

More recent on "varna" in the caste
Dalit Voice - The Voice of the Persecuted Nationalities Denied Human Rights

Book on The Laws of Manu
Amazon.com: Uccai Siravas' review of The Laws of Manu (Penguin Classics)
 
I was talking about how men approach women. I know several white men who lived in Latin countries moved back to US. When they find out I'm Latina, they try to impress me by talking like Latinos, "Hey, Mamacita!"

As half German and half Mexican, You won't believe cheesy lines men came up with. "So, Do you make bratwurst burrito?" "Do you speak Germixcan?" "Can you make me sauerkraut taco?"
 
kokonut said:
Not the deciding factor but it was a part of the social fabric order in the beginning to even today. The Manu Dharma is one law of the caste systems where skin color (or even race) "Varna" was taken into account (starting on page 10 on "varna" by Prof. Uthaya Naidu - http://www.oration.com/~mm9n/articles/PDF/Aryan Invasion.pdf )

More recent on "varna" in the caste
Dalit Voice - The Voice of the Persecuted Nationalities Denied Human Rights

Book on The Laws of Manu
Amazon.com: Uccai Siravas' review of The Laws of Manu (Penguin Classics)
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cool but let's stick to topic, shall we? You can make another thread about caste system and skin color. This thread is about "White Privilege" in terms of sociological phenomenon. It does not necessarily mean white skin. It's about Anglo-Saxon / Caucasian people having a "preferred" treatment over minority race in America and the racism deep inside us on subconscious level that produces a preconceived notion about certain people.

si?
 
Jiro said:
cool but let's stick to topic, shall we? You can make another thread about caste system and skin color. This thread is about "White Privilege" in terms of sociological phenomenon. It does not necessarily mean white skin. It's about Anglo-Saxon / Caucasian people having a "preferred" treatment over minority race in America and the racism deep inside us on subconscious level that produces a preconceived notion about certain people.

si?
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:rofl: Yes. The caste system in a highly stratified society is completely different than being in a few government that claim equality for all.

Not to mention that North America, Australia, South Africa, Canada and so on are unique in that they are NOT homogeneous nations either yet still had have these sociological phenomenon in place despite that they claim "equality for all." Only thing comparable is South America and two other certain parts of the world that kokonut would not 'fess up to since he keep demanding us to use Google.
 
jillio said:
Not exactly. The belief that a particular race is superior is called prejudice. Acting on that belief in a manner that oppresses a member of that race is called discrimination.
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Judging (the act or practice) is about making a distinction in favor of or against. That is called discrimination. It is also in the same vein as having a prejudicial outlook.

Discrimination:
3 a : the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually b : prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment <racial discrimination>

discrimination - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
Discrimination Definition | Definition of Discrimination at Dictionary.com

What I said:

"Judging a race based on superiority or the supposed lack of it is called discrimination, making a distinction on the differences."

In other words, judging a race based on differences is called discrimination.
 
souggy said:
:rofl: Yes. The caste system in a highly stratified society is completely different than being in a few government that claim equality for all.

Not to mention that North America, Australia, South Africa, Canada and so on are unique in that they are NOT homogeneous nations either yet still had have these sociological phenomenon in place despite that they claim "equality for all." Only thing comparable is South America and two other certain parts of the world that kokonut would not 'fess up to since he keep demanding us to use Google.
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No, not demanding. Just that Google, Yahoo, Bing or whatever can be your friend in getting the resources you're looking for. It is up to you on how and where you get your resources as a result of your searches.

The caste system is a complex system, we all can agree on that. This was one of my philosophy topic I had to cover back in college (ie. Hinduism. I know that race/skin color was a part of the caste systems. Convuluted yet discriminatory on too many levels though it enabled India to survive.
 
kokonut said:
Judging (the act or practice) is about making a distinction in favor of or against. That is called discrimination. It is also in the same vein as having a prejudicial outlook.

Discrimination:
3 a : the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually b : prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment <racial discrimination>

discrimination - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
Discrimination Definition | Definition of Discrimination at Dictionary.com

What I said:

"Judging a race based on superiority or the supposed lack of it is called discrimination, making a distinction on the differences."

In other words, judging a race based on differences is called discrimination.
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this is why you should heed my advice in my post #294. Since this is sociology-related issue.... you really should use sociology-related reference. since I'm not able to access to my university's database (technical difficulty) at this moment... here are what I found from quick search -

source
prejudice - A positive or negative attitude directed toward people simply because they occupy a particular status.

discrimination - Positive or negative behavior based on stereotyped beliefs about the occupants of a status.
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source 2
PREJUDICE - To make a judgment about an individual or group of individuals on the basis of their social, physical or cultural characteristics. Such judgments are usually negative, but prejudice can also be exercised to give undue favour and advantage to members of particular groups. Prejudice is often seen as the attitudinal component of discrimination.

DISCRIMINATION - The unequal treatment of individuals on the basis of their personal characteristics, which may include age, sex, sexual orientation, ethnic or physical identity. Discrimination usually refers to negative treatment, but discrimination in favour of particular groups can also occur. See: PREJUDICE.
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source 3
Prejudice - A negative attitude toward an entire category of people, such as a racial or ethnic minority.

Discrimination - The process of denying opportunities and equal rights to individuals and groups because of prejudice or other arbitrary reasons.
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Jillio's definitions remain correct. That's why there is a field called sociology dedicated to this type of matter. On the surface, discrimination and prejudice may look the same thing. When you dissect it, it is not.

Perfect analogy - human twins look exactly the same but deep inside - they are different.
 
souggy said:
Actually, kokonut was partly right about the caste system, but it's so complex and there's so much variations of it-- I never really followed up on it.

However I was thinking of a mixed society where certain groups are more favoured than others, not a stratified society that put thing in a hierarchical order. We're not talking about hierarchy, but the notion that certain skin colour have certain privileges attached to it.

The Indian caste system is more of "I am more important than you because of the divine" rather than stereotypes and assumptions.

Have to give him a sticker for trying, even if he get an F... right?
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Good to see that you realized that discrimination based on skin color or race does indeed go back farther than 500 years ago. Which brings me to this on "white privilege." Is that also a form of heirarchical order by using skin color? And that using race is seen as a caste system?
A Nation Built on the Hierarchy of Race: A Practical Gude to Beating White Supremacy - Monthly Review
 
Jiro said:
this is why you should heed my advice in my post #294. Since this is sociology-related issue.... you really should use sociology-related reference. since I'm not able to access to my university's database (technical difficulty) at this moment... here are what I found from quick search -

source


source 2


source 3


Jillio's definitions remain correct. That's why there is a field called sociology dedicated to this type of matter. On the surface, discrimination and prejudice may look the same thing. When you dissect it, it is not.

Perfect analogy - human twins look exactly the same but deep inside - they are different.
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I made my points clear on judging.

Your "university's database"?

mmmm.......
Ok.
 
Jiro said:
that's the thing. yes there are laws that criminalize discrimination but how? How can you arrest someone of discriminating people when there is no tangible proof?
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In a case of loan discrimination the tangible proof would be that the person applied, is eligible and can qualify but still does not get the loan.
 
jillio said:
The thing is, we are not necessarily talking about discrimination. That is a different concept from white priviledge.
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I was trying to address all of the issues brought up in the OP. Discrimination was one of them.
 
Hmmmm, I am rather late to this thread. Will take me some time to finish looking all the comments over.
 
Jiro said:
many Caucasians denied it as a silly notion that exists only in MLK era or tv show.... or even a cop-out excuse used by minority to get out of any trouble like police brutality.
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And that is what gets under my skin. :mad2:
 
Buffalo said:
According to this link: The Ainu of Japan: The History, Culture, and Discrimination Against this Aboriginal Group | Suite101.com they aren't privileged at all.
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I have read your link and I am surprise that Ainu does resembled very much like ours in North America too. That is the exact example of what we had gone through over more than 500 years of oppression with the white governments. It just hurt us in regarding that we are not human enough for them. Thank-you for showing the link. It is very sad that today we still are not privilege to be accepted as equal. :( :hmm:
 
society's_child said:
And that is what gets under my skin. :mad2:
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Me too. Even as a white person myself it depresses me that other members of my race deny this because they feel personally accused and attacked or uncomfortable. And rather than admit and own their own feelings they project it onto people of color and call it off as a cop-out. :( :(
 
how are you gonna have affirmative action without a quota system?

African-Americans also have their own black privileges (Jack and Jill clubs, HBCU, fraternity and sorority which emphasized physical abuse, etc.
 
Oh, bloody hell DURAY. I can say the same thing about Deaf people. Or any minority groups. So don't turn that into "black privilege" since you're Deaf yourself.
 
kokonut said:
Not the deciding factor but it was a part of the social fabric order in the beginning to even today. The Manu Dharma is one law of the caste systems where skin color (or even race) "Varna" was taken into account (starting on page 10 on "varna" by Prof. Uthaya Naidu - http://www.oration.com/~mm9n/articles/PDF/Aryan Invasion.pdf )

More recent on "varna" in the caste
Dalit Voice - The Voice of the Persecuted Nationalities Denied Human Rights

Book on The Laws of Manu
Amazon.com: Uccai Siravas' review of The Laws of Manu (Penguin Classics)
Click to expand...

You are connecting in the wrong sequence. That is what makes your conclusions erroneous.
 
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