White privilege

kokonut said:
I am responding to Souggy's saying that people didn't judge on skin color until the 1500s which is incorrect. It's a long standing human trait that used skin color as a way to discriminate against others for whatever reasons or beliefs. Simply put. This wasn't a response about "white privilege."
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And souggy has explained that to you. You simply seem to have trouble comprehending the explanation.
 
kokonut said:
Let's not twist this response of yours, Souggy. You said that people didn't judge others by their skin colors until the 1500s. This is incorrect. India has been doing this for 3000 plus years in their caste system. Greek and Romans did this and even coined the word "barbarians." What about Ancient Egyptians and Nubians? And how, according to some research, that Egyptians killed off red-headed people thinking they represent evil. This is an example of how they did indeed judged and prejudged others based on skin color and distinguished these groups according to their ethnicities. Again, it all goes back as a flawed human trait we exhibit.

This isn't about "white privilege" but a response to your claim that people didn't use skin color to discriminate against those who were different.
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You are incorrect regarding the caste system in India. It is not based on skin color. The designation of "barbarian" was not based on skin color. Egyptians were not determining skin color, but hair color, and there was a mystical belief system tied to the practice. So, the examples you are providing are incorrect.
 
jillio said:
You are incorrect regarding the caste system in India. It is not based on skin color. The designation of "barbarian" was not based on skin color. Egyptians were not determining skin color, but hair color, and there was a mystical belief system tied to the practice. So, the examples you are providing are incorrect.
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Associated with each varn.a there is a traditional color. These sound suspiciously like skin colors; and, indeed, there is an expectation in India that higher caste people will have lighter skin -- although there are plenty of exceptions (especially in the South of India)
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The Caste System in Hinduism
 
Funny how Kokonut claims that "racism" exists before Christ when in fact, there is no historical literature suggesting that they discriminated based on skin color.
 
Bottesini said:
The Caste System in Hinduism
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Yes, there is an expectation, but that is based more on environmental exposure of the lower castes. For instance, a farming caste will have developed darker skin over time as protection from the sun, while the professional castes will have had their skin grow lighter over generations because the melanin isn't needed for protection. It is not the skin color itself that determines caste position. Skin color is a consequence of caste position.
 
jillio said:
Yes, there is an expectation, but that is based more on environmental exposure of the lower castes. For instance, a farming caste will have developed darker skin over time as protection from the sun, while the professional castes will have had their skin grow lighter over generations because the melanin isn't needed for protection. It is not the skin color itself that determines caste position. Skin color is a consequence of caste position.
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That's actually very interesting. I didn't know it before.

Do you know about the Ainu of Japan? I think they were a very privileged group with very light skin and blue eyes.
 
Actually, kokonut was partly right about the caste system, but it's so complex and there's so much variations of it-- I never really followed up on it.

However I was thinking of a mixed society where certain groups are more favoured than others, not a stratified society that put thing in a hierarchical order. We're not talking about hierarchy, but the notion that certain skin colour have certain privileges attached to it.

The Indian caste system is more of "I am more important than you because of the divine" rather than stereotypes and assumptions.

Have to give him a sticker for trying, even if he get an F... right?
 
Some argued "caste" was considered crucial for the health of society. They believed that everyone should be assigned a "job" for life. Even if a rich man wants to be poor, he couldn't do that. He was not allowed to be "free." The concept of individual freedom was pretty non-existent to them. They believed that it was their fate to be whatever they were assigned to be.
 
To be fair the two concepts are somewhat related. A lot of white privilege exists as a result of prejudice and discrimination, although the terms aren't interchangeable.
 
jillio said:
You are incorrect regarding the caste system in India. It is not based on skin color. The designation of "barbarian" was not based on skin color. Egyptians were not determining skin color, but hair color, and there was a mystical belief system tied to the practice. So, the examples you are providing are incorrect.
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I thought the term Barbiarian was used during the Roman Empire era. Nope, it was first used in the classical Greek era to describe anyone or tribe not of Greek origin though it could also refer to a person or tribe that spoke crude Greek.

It also was used to refer to Vikings and Goths in the dark ages (I think) as well the Normans during the conquest of England.

For a long time I thought caste was due to skin color... uh not quite.. I think it's do do with occupations like skinning and leather works which were not acceptable in an ethinic group that valued vegetarianism though I think there's more to it than that.
 
Bottesini said:
That's actually very interesting. I didn't know it before.

Do you know about the Ainu of Japan? I think they were a very privileged group with very light skin and blue eyes.
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I don't know a lot about them, but you are right about the light skin and eye color. I remember some discussion of them in anthroplogy.
 
souggy said:
Actually, kokonut was partly right about the caste system, but it's so complex and there's so much variations of it-- I never really followed up on it.

However I was thinking of a mixed society where certain groups are more favoured than others, not a stratified society that put thing in a hierarchical order. We're not talking about hierarchy, but the notion that certain skin colour have certain privileges attached to it.

The Indian caste system is more of "I am more important than you because of the divine" rather than stereotypes and assumptions.

Have to give him a sticker for trying, even if he get an F... right?
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A gold star for trying!:giggle: I tried to explain the connection between skin color and caste as a consequence of caste rather than a determining factor.
 
deafskeptic said:
I thought the term Barbiarian was used during the Roman Empire era. Nope, it was first used in the classical Greek era to describe anyone or tribe not of Greek origin though it could also refer to a person or tribe that spoke crude Greek.

It also was used to refer to Vikings and Goths in the dark ages (I think) as well the Normans during the conquest of England.

For a long time I thought caste was due to skin color... uh not quite.. I think it's do do with occupations like skinning and leather works which were not acceptable in an ethinic group that valued vegetarianism though I think there's more to it than that.
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Yes, Barbarian refers to what was considered uncivilized belief systems and practices, not skin color.

Yes, caste systems can get quite complicated, but to keep it less complicated, the lower castes are generally laborers. Laborers over time, develop darker skin color as a function of natural adaptation that protects them from the elements. Upper castes, generally more professional and "divine" members of the society, do not need that protection, and so, loose melanin as a function of natural adaptation.
 
jillio said:
Yes, Barbarian refers to what was considered uncivilized belief systems and practices, not skin color.

Yes, caste systems can get quite complicated, but to keep it less complicated, the lower castes are generally laborers. Laborers over time, develop darker skin color as a function of natural adaptation that protects them from the elements. Upper castes, generally more professional and "divine" members of the society, do not need that protection, and so, loose melanin as a function of natural adaptation.
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Well caste systems looks so complex to me that I'm not sure even the Indians have got all of it right. :giggle:
 
deafskeptic said:
Well caste systems looks so complex to me that I'm not sure even the Indians have got all of it right. :giggle:
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I think you may be right about that! I'm sure there are many that would tell you they just abide by it, they don't understand it!:P
 
Jiro said:
a very sharp observation you made! Yes I can say you are right on the dot. We Asians are pretty direct. Our language has no room for dancing-around bullshit :)
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I don't know about that.... my cousin's wife is a Korean and she told me that Koreans usually turn down any help three times before accepting help. That is sort of dancing around bit for me.
 
Buffalo said:
I don't know about that.... my cousin's wife is a Korean and she told me that Koreans usually turn down any help three times before accepting help. That is sort of dancing around bit for me.
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that applies to pretty much majority of races. in some countries - refusing an offer for help is rude. It offends him because it makes him think his offer is no good.

I always tease my friends and colleagues whenever I offer something such as snack or offer to buy a coffee and they kindly refuse. I replied back with a scorn force - what? do not refuse what I offer. it is rude :lol:
 
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