Which Choices of Communication should Hearing parents use for their implanted child?

[Cloggy]

I see.....:quiet:

No need to be quit.... I was just thinking out loud. Would love to hear your ideas on it...

 

[jag]

Oh my god !!
Can someone help me!!!

Please explain...

denotative and connotative​

actually the vast majority of the people posting here, especially if they've graduated in the last 20 yrs wouldn't be a ble to tell you about denotative or connotative. Shel might since she got her degree in language. But most of the others. Nope.

 

[InTheGenes]

actually the vast majority of the people posting here, especially if they've graduated in the last 20 yrs wouldn't be a ble to tell you about denotative or connotative. Shel might since she got her degree in language. But most of the others. Nope.

That might be true, but the vast majority of folks posting here should be able to find Dictionary.com.

 

[jag]

That might be true, but the vast majority of folks posting here should be able to find Dictionary.com.

True they might. But I was commenting on the knowledge that is imparted in our schools system regarding the english language in this day and age. They 'may' have been covered back when I was in school but frankly I missed stuff cause HA's aren't al lthey are cracked up to be.

From what I can see the only reason to use them was to try to make oneself out to be very well educated. I'm on dial up which is slow. and no I can't get high speed because i'm out in the country. I spend enough time loading up various pages without having to run to a dictionary , all deaf is one of the slowest loading sites I've visited and I'd have to assume it has to do with the number of graphics that are used. So I really don't need to have to run and look up words that are rarely used when the more common ones would do just as well.

Cloggy's first language isn't english. My guess is it probably is not even his second. He does very well in expressing himself, one needs to remember that US english is different from Europeon. Very rarely have I had to try to figure out exactly what he was trying to say. Can't say the same for some of the natives. (even myself at times, lol)

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Cloggy's first language isn't english. My guess is it probably is not even his second. He does very well in expressing himself, one needs to remember that US english is different from Europeon. Very rarely have I had to try to figure out exactly what he was trying to say. Can't say the same for some of the natives. (even myself at times, lol)

Yes that's right that European and American's English grammar/languages are different.

Cloggy is a Dutch and live in Norway with his family.

 

[InTheGenes]

True they might. But I was commenting on the knowledge that is imparted in our schools system regarding the english language in this day and age. They 'may' have been covered back when I was in school but frankly I missed stuff cause HA's aren't al lthey are cracked up to be.

From what I can see the only reason to use them was to try to make oneself out to be very well educated. I'm on dial up which is slow. and no I can't get high speed because i'm out in the country. I spend enough time loading up various pages without having to run to a dictionary , all deaf is one of the slowest loading sites I've visited and I'd have to assume it has to do with the number of graphics that are used. So I really don't need to have to run and look up words that are rarely used when the more common ones would do just as well.

Cloggy's first language isn't english. My guess is it probably is not even his second. He does very well in expressing himself, one needs to remember that US english is different from Europeon. Very rarely have I had to try to figure out exactly what he was trying to say. Can't say the same for some of the natives. (even myself at times, lol)

I understand what you're saying, I do... my comment was more tongue-in-cheek than anything else... BUT... I don't see anything wrong with making use of advanced literacy/vocabulary. If anything, it helps people learn words they didn't already know. That's how *I've* learned words growing up. That, and reading tons of books.

For the record, English wasn't my first or second language either, but I know what denotative and connotative mean. Granted, I probably began learning English earlier in my life than did Cloggy, but you get my point.

This is a discussion that one of my college courses recently had... about "dumbing down" language, etc. I agree with you that there are often situations where other words work ALMOST just as well (and, in some cases, JUST as well)... but sometimes certain words actually carry a much more descriptive connotation.

Bah... I'm getting wordy again. Simply put, I actually like it when folks use words that I don't know. It helps me learn. I usually never see that as a bad thing.

In this particular instance, I'm not so sure that Jillio was going out of her way to point out how educated she is. Rather, in the study of linguistics, the concepts of denotative and connotative are considered fairly basic concepts. Sure, we might not use those words in OUR every day conversations, but as it relates to the argument in question, I found the word choice appropriate.

 

[jag]

In this particular instance, I'm not so sure that Jillio was going out of her way to point out how educated she is. Rather, in the study of linguistics, the concepts of denotative and connotative are considered fairly basic concepts. Sure, we might not use those words in OUR every day conversations, but as it relates to the argument in question, I found the word choice appropriate.

I would guess one would have to have actually followed discussions where she has taken people to task because she chooses to not nitpick. Whatever, one does get sick of nit picking after awhile

Time to get some sleep. Have a good day everyone.

and behave.

 

[Cloggy]

........ Simply put, I actually like it when folks use words that I don't know. It helps me learn. I usually never see that as a bad thing.

Same here.

........ I'm not so sure that Jillio was going out of her way to point out how educated she is..

....I have noticed changes in your pragmatic use of language, particularly in your most recent posts subsequent to your offensive language being pointed out to you. You are becoming more aware of the fact that there are both denotative and connotative meanings to the use of any one particular term, and that the connotative often carries more impact than the denotative.

Patronizing, condescending....

 

[jillio]

... on the contrairy... I did not assume it was the skull, i assumed you were intentionally suggesting that the drilling is into the skull.
With your focus on correct writing, you could have written "through the bone but not into the skull" but instead you decided to insinuate otherwise...
You like to do that... insinuate one thing, and when needed you have your escape route....

So we agree. There's no drilling through the skull. There's a recess drilled on the outside of the skull, and there's a hole drilled from that recess to the middle ear, which is outside the skull....


No desire to see your posts as incorrect. I love to read correct posts from you.. really.!!

Such a negative view you have.... ah, yes.... well, that happens...

Actually, cloggy, I thought you were such an expert on CIs and deaf children, as is your little buddy, that no clarification would be necessary.

Okay, Mr. Expert, explain this to me....if the recess is created in the skull, or to be more accurate, a depression, and a hole is drilled from the site of that recess, or once again, to be more correct, depression, to the middle ear, how is it that the hole is not drilled in the skull. The middle ear is outside of the skull, to be sure, but the depression is in the skull. And if the hole is drilled at the site of the depression, the hole is in the bony structure known as the skull.

Quite obviously, your intent is not to present correct information regarding CI, but to present information that misleads and minimizes in order to present a picture that appears to be much less invasive than the surgery truly is. Just as you present a picture of a little girl who is developing normally in all ways, despite the fact that this child has not yet started school and therefore is hardly an example of success academically, and despite the fact that, by your own admission, she is still suffering language delays that will, indeed, create problems when she does begin to attend school.

You need to not only get honest with yourself, cloggy, but with the other posters on this board. If you choose to live ina world where you ingnore the obvious in order to prevent yourself from having to face up to reality that is contradictory tothe way to want everything to be, that is your choice. But you have no right to inflict that on others.

You are contributing to the situation that creates the misunderstandings and misinformation that does harm to other deaf children, and creates bias and injustice within educational systems and societal systems. Your point of view is so important to you that you are allowingit to have a negative effect, indirectly, on other people's children. Perhaps you are not magnanimous enough to be concerned about deaf childrenthat are not your flesh and blood, but there are those of us on this board that do care about these chidlren, and your continual attempt to spread incorrect information and to minimize the impact of oral only environments is unacceptable.

 

[jillio]

I understand what you're saying, I do... my comment was more tongue-in-cheek than anything else... BUT... I don't see anything wrong with making use of advanced literacy/vocabulary. If anything, it helps people learn words they didn't already know. That's how *I've* learned words growing up. That, and reading tons of books.

For the record, English wasn't my first or second language either, but I know what denotative and connotative mean. Granted, I probably began learning English earlier in my life than did Cloggy, but you get my point.

This is a discussion that one of my college courses recently had... about "dumbing down" language, etc. I agree with you that there are often situations where other words work ALMOST just as well (and, in some cases, JUST as well)... but sometimes certain words actually carry a much more descriptive connotation.

Bah... I'm getting wordy again. Simply put, I actually like it when folks use words that I don't know. It helps me learn. I usually never see that as a bad thing.

In this particular instance, I'm not so sure that Jillio was going out of her way to point out how educated she is. Rather, in the study of linguistics, the concepts of denotative and connotative are considered fairly basic concepts. Sure, we might not use those words in OUR every day conversations, but as it relates to the argument in question, I found the word choice appropriate.

Thank you, InTheGenes. If cloggy or others on this board are threatened by my vocabulary, then it is their problem to deal with, not mine.

 

[jillio]

True they might. But I was commenting on the knowledge that is imparted in our schools system regarding the english language in this day and age. They 'may' have been covered back when I was in school but frankly I missed stuff cause HA's aren't al lthey are cracked up to be.

From what I can see the only reason to use them was to try to make oneself out to be very well educated. I'm on dial up which is slow. and no I can't get high speed because i'm out in the country. I spend enough time loading up various pages without having to run to a dictionary , all deaf is one of the slowest loading sites I've visited and I'd have to assume it has to do with the number of graphics that are used. So I really don't need to have to run and look up words that are rarely used when the more common ones would do just as well.

Cloggy's first language isn't english. My guess is it probably is not even his second. He does very well in expressing himself, one needs to remember that US english is different from Europeon. Very rarely have I had to try to figure out exactly what he was trying to say. Can't say the same for some of the natives. (even myself at times, lol)

Actually, jag, the point of using them was to point out that there are two accepted ways of defining a word, and that just because one has posted a dictionary definition does not necessaily tellt he whole story of the use of the word. Cloggy consistently posts dictionary definitions that are taken out of context, and therefore, intentionally twists the meaning of a given post. Likewise, he and fuzzy are constantly complaining that they are misunderstood, and, therefore, they both should be aware that it is the way they are using language, and not the way everyone else is reading their language, that creates the misunderstanding.

And, if the online dictionary loads slowly, there is always the print version.

 

[Cloggy]

Thank you, InTheGenes. If cloggy or others on this board are threatened by my vocabulary, then it is their problem to deal with, not mine.

Threatened.... no lovey..
It just shows your arrogant and patronizing attitude towards other posters. So I'm glad you use the vocabulary..

 

[jillio]

Same here.



Patronizing, condescending....

Actually, cloggy, that was a compliment on the fact that you had actually opened your mind a bit and begun to learn something for a change. But, of course you would see it as patronizing and condenscending as you are feeling so threatened. So threatened, in fact, that you are now requesting that any posts that point out your inconsistencies and inaccuracies be reomoved from another thread. One only feels the need to censor when one is threatened by the words.

 

[jillio]

Threatened.... no lovey..
It just shows your arrogant and patronizing attitude towards other posters. So I'm glad you use the vocabulary..

Funny, cloggy, it is only you that seems to feel that I am being patronizing and arrogant toward you. Get a grip. I am not responsible for your inadequacies. What is patronizing and condenscending is your attitude that causes you to use sarcasm toward others when you are unable to supply an intelligent well thought out answer, and your constant criticism of the syntax in other posters words. You, of all people, have always been one of the first to criticize the grammar of the deaf posters here, and to use sarcasem topresent an aura of superiority over them. How does it feel when another hearing poster turns the tables, cloggy? You want to point out he language difficulties of those dea posters on this board.....you suffer the same problems. Yet when the laying field is leveled, and you ar no longer in position of domination, it suddenly becomes patronizing. Why are your actions not patronizing, cloggy? Because they are directed toward those that you truly believe are inferior to you? You need to spend less time posting, and more time examinining your true motives.

 

[jillio]

Threatened.... no lovey..
It just shows your arrogant and patronizing attitude towards other posters. So I'm glad you use the vocabulary..

And I consider your addressing me as "lovey" to be patronizing, just as you intended it to be. My screen name is Jillio, and if you feel the need to use a specific name to address me, stick to that. Your are not only an audist, but a sexist as well.

 

[Cloggy]

Actually, cloggy, I thought you were such an expert on CIs and deaf children, as is your little buddy, that no clarification would be necessary.

Okay, Mr. Expert, explain this to me....if the recess is created in the skull, or to be more accurate, a depression, and a hole is drilled from the site of that recess, or once again, to be more correct, depression, to the middle ear, how is it that the hole is not drilled in the skull. The middle ear is outside of the skull, to be sure, but the depression is in the skull. And if the hole is drilled at the site of the depression, the hole is in the bony structure known as the skull.

Finally you got it right... without insinuating that a hole is drilled through the skull.. Wasn't too difficult - was it?

Quite obviously, your intent is not to present correct information regarding CI, but to present information that misleads and minimizes in order to present a picture that appears to be much less invasive than the surgery truly is. Just as you present a picture of a little girl who is developing normally in all ways, despite the fact that this child has not yet started school and therefore is hardly an example of success academically, and despite the fact that, by your own admission, she is still suffering language delays that will, indeed, create problems when she does begin to attend school.

Wrong assumptions, and such a negative attitude...

You need to not only get honest with yourself, cloggy, but with the other posters on this board. If you choose to live ina world where you ingnore the obvious in order to prevent yourself from having to face up to reality that is contradictory tothe way to want everything to be, that is your choice. But you have no right to inflict that on others.

Assuming you know me... patronizing attitude... you're soo wrong J.T.

You are contributing to the situation that creates the misunderstandings and misinformation that does harm to other deaf children, and creates bias and injustice within educational systems and societal systems. Your point of view is so important to you that you are allowingit to have a negative effect, indirectly, on other people's children. Perhaps you are not magnanimous enough to be concerned about deaf childrenthat are not your flesh and blood, but there are those of us on this board that do care about these chidlren, and your continual attempt to spread incorrect information and to minimize the impact of oral only environments is unacceptable.

Again, your mis-assumptions (is that a word..??) are all over the place.
And you are doing a good job telling all the people how I don't care about deaf children... again, you are mistaken.

And accusations like "not magnanimous enough to be concerned about deaf childrenthat are not your flesh and blood" (like many on the board, I will look up "magnanimous".. beautiful word...), "spread incorrect information" and "to minimize the impact of oral only environments" are easy to make.. but I never see you backing them up.. And for the right reason. They are wrong. They are false accusations. But that's how you work.

Basically, your attitude can be described as "bitter"...
How's that for a simple word?

 

[Cloggy]

And I consider your addressing me as "lovey" to be patronizing, just as you intended it to be. My screen name is Jillio, and if you feel the need to use a specific name to address me, stick to that. Your are not only an audist, but a sexist as well.

Sorry lovie...
But how does that have anything to do with "audist"..??

Ah, another insunuation... and again, you're wrong, lovie
Man.. (Sorry.. Woman) you've been wrong a lot in the last hour...

 

[jillio]

Finally you got it right... without insinuating that a hole is drilled through the skull.. Wasn't too difficult - was it?

Got what right cloggy. That the hole is drilled next to the depression that is surgically created in the skull, and therefore, a hole is drilled in the skull. You keep saying there is no hole drilled in the skull. Obviously, you now agree that there is a hole drilled in the skull adjacent tot he depression created inthe skull. So, it wouldappear that I had it right all along, as you are incapable of explaining to me any different.

Wrong assumptions, and such a negative attitude...
Assuming you know me... patronizing attitude... you're soo wrong J.T.
Again, your mis-assumptions (is that a word..??) are all over the place.
And you are doing a good job telling all the people how I don't care about deaf children... again, you are mistaken.

Whi si J.T. cloggy? And actuallly, no. Mis-assumptions is not a word. What deaf children do you care about cloggy? Waht are youdoing to improve the education and communication of any deaf children other than your own?

And accusations like "not magnanimous enough to be concerned about deaf childrenthat are not your flesh and blood" (like many on the board, I will look up "magnanimous".. beautiful word...), "spread incorrect information" and "to minimize the impact of oral only environments" are easy to make.. but I never see you backing them up.. And for the right reason. They are wrong. They are false accusations. But that's how you work.

You keep posting and support those "accusations" for me. They are not false in the least. Your posts speak for themselves. It is not for me to prove....you do it for me. Can you disprove them?

Basically, your attitude can be described as "bitter"...
How's that for a simple word?

No, cloggy, my attitude is not bitter. Once again, you are attempting to claim expertise inan area in which you are completely unqualified. Waht my attitude is , is a complete lack of tolerance for the ignorance and self-serving attitudes of persons such as yourself that continue to support and promote those philosophies and attitudes that contribute to the under educaton and social isolation of deaf children, and thus creating problems for this population through your ethnocentric behavior and attitude.

 

[jillio]

Sorry lovie...
But how does that have anything to do with "audist"..??

Ah, another insunuation... and again, you're wrong, lovie
Man.. (Sorry.. Woman) you've been wrong a lot in the last hour...

Continue addressing me in the way that I have specifically requested that you not use is a childish attempt to invoke anger. Your games are amatuer, cloggy. Go play them with your daughter. In the meantime, I will be reporting your behavior, your attempts to inflame, and your refusal to address other posters ina respectful manner to the mods.

MODS: PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THE FACT THAT I SPECIFFICALLYREQUESTED THAT CLOGGY ADDRESS ME USING MY SCREENNAME, AND SINCE THAT REQUEST HAS BEEN MADE, HE HAS REFUSED TO COMPLY AND HAS ALSO ADDRESSED BY NOT ONLY AS LOVEY, LOVIE, BUT ALSO AS J.T.

 

[jillio]

Sorry lovie...
But how does that have anything to do with "audist"..??

Ah, another insunuation... and again, you're wrong, lovie
Man.. (Sorry.. Woman) you've been wrong a lot in the last hour...

Go look up a word or two, cloggy. Improve yourself.