When expecting a child, would you want it to be deaf?

RebelGirl said:
My daughter is hearing My ex husband and i are both deaf. When she was born, all I wanted was a healthy baby. Now, if I ever have another baby, I would LOVE to have a deaf child. if the next baby is hearing.. I'm going to love him/her the same.


Very True, I thought the same as you but I know before I had 2 pregnanies that my future children are hearing but I still want to have them and going to love them, no matter what. I accept and learn hearing world thru them. I would not get my both hearing children to surgery to make them deaf because I'm deaf.

I would not get surgery to change my baby. I rather leave my child's choice. He/She will have my support, no matter what.
 
Cloggy said:
101%... I allready agreed 100%, and you top me 101%.... mmm

Still agree with YOU 100%


Yes I saw your post, that's why I put 1 extra... If other who agree with Angel, then she/he will have 1 extra after my post... :D Angel deserve our extra % as reward... :D
 
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Interesting, I alway thought that CI is good for children/adult who lost their hearing to deaf until last April 2005.

Let me tell you what I know from my hubby where he visited 4 weeks rehab./Spa clinic last April 2005 and met 10 CI users there. My hubby get know them personally and got them tell him how they feel about CI etc. He had been with them for the whole month.

27 years old guy lost his hearing to deafness due severe car accident. He compared his experience as original hearing with CI and saying that it´s a HUGH difference. He CAN´T understand what the people talking behind his back and hard to understand what music sounds because he didn't use that noises. He described to my hubby how he feel the difference between hearing and CI. He feel it's "technology hearing".

I wish to sign you when I see you all in real life but I hope that my description match hearing people because it´s too opposite to hear with CI.

I hope you understand my description here.

For hearing people:
Can hear and speak everything from their ears with the help from the brain. The movement around the brain and ears when you hear everything with ears and speak because hair cell in ear are alive... Something like you can hear beautiful movement of spider/insects on the table or floor.

For CI people:
Can´t hear everything from their ears but head. You listen anything from your head, not your ear like you practice to hear words all the time like you memorize its all in your head, not from your ear. CI was like "technology hearing" which different as original hearing when you hear spider/insects movement. Hugh different.

Well, other 29 years old guy who lost hearing to deafness itself for no reason. He is agree with 27 years old guy because he had the same feeling as him.

They have to training to hear what/which kind of noises/sounds and also hear behind of back. They still speaking like hearing but hear the noises, they can´t. They have the feeling that "technology" in them.

I was like wow and speechless as my hubby described their stories to me because I alway thought that CI is good for children/adult who lost their hearing to deafness. I was not realized the difference noise between original hearing and technology hearing.
 
Boult said:
then why read this thread? you don't have to participate in thread and just sit yourself out and avoid this thread entirely so you won't be fuming like you are now :D

Cheers :wave:

:)
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Interesting, I alway thought that CI is good for children/adult who lost their hearing to deaf until last April 2005......
It's a good example. Obviously not all people have the same experience.

I remember this 50-year old man that lost his hearing gradually. Managed to stay in his job as manager until the toll on him trying to folow meetings and communicate with customers became too much. He had to stop working. After 5 years he got a CI implanted and learned how to hear again.
At first the sounds were "metallic". So he could understand speech but it sounded weird. BUt then, the brain got the hang of these new impulses, and in a couple of months he perceived sounds with his old (more than 5 years) sound-map. He recognises the voice of his wife which he hadn't heared for over 5 years. He recognises birds that he hadn't heared.

There's different experiences everywhere, and it's good to share these. The good, AND the bad. Plus everything in between. I like the story that you gave because it reminds people that there are different outcomes.
 
Sharing another experience that my wife had today. Actually two.

We just bought a new car, and my daughter (well, all 3 kids) love it. It's the Peugeot 307 SW and it has a glass roof. Great. Testdrove it some time ago and my daughter didn't want to get back in the old car.
When my wife picked the car up, she told her that we had a new car. She (my daughter) got all excited and told my wife (nieuw auto! - in Dutch) and to her teacher (ny bil - in NOrwegian).

This was a couple of days ago. Now today she made my wife cry....
Driving around with my daughter in the back, listning to ABBA "Thank you for the music" and there's our little CI-borg - singing along.
Too much emotion for my wife so she just had to pull over...
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Yes I saw your post, that's why I put 1 extra... If other who agree with Angel, then she/he will have 1 extra after my post... :D Angel deserve our extra % as reward... :D
Figured that woul dbe the case...
By the way... do we meet in Hamburg next friday?
 
Cloggy said:
It's a good example. Obviously not all people have the same experience.

I remember this 50-year old man that lost his hearing gradually. Managed to stay in his job as manager until the toll on him trying to folow meetings and communicate with customers became too much. He had to stop working. After 5 years he got a CI implanted and learned how to hear again.
At first the sounds were "metallic". So he could understand speech but it sounded weird. BUt then, the brain got the hang of these new impulses, and in a couple of months he perceived sounds with his old (more than 5 years) sound-map. He recognises the voice of his wife which he hadn't heared for over 5 years. He recognises birds that he hadn't heared.

There's different experiences everywhere, and it's good to share these. The good, AND the bad. Plus everything in between. I like the story that you gave because it reminds people that there are different outcomes.

Yes, it's an exactly what I mean "technology hearing" like what you described "metallic sounds" in my last post that former hearies training to hear the "metallic" sounds which not same as original hearing. The doctor said, it's depend on difference human who can learn to understand sounds quickly or not.
 
Deehamilton

Liebling:-))) said:
Yes, the doctors can find out your unborn baby is deaf or not... I learn it from my British friend who had been through.

Her husband had 6 deaf kids with his first wife. My friend has 2 hearing children with her ex boyfriend. He wish to have a child from my friend. They went to Specialist to find out either their future baby will be deaf or not. The Specialist took their genes to work out and then informed them that their future baby will be deaf. After that, they had 7 years old deaf child.

I too had it after my second child. They did a DNA genetic testing and told us that our chance of having Deaf children was 50 percent. They do a test with parents not a baby. But, What is wrong with having a deaf baby?? You alldeaf here are Deaf. What is your problem having a Deaf baby or a Hearing baby? The overall important is as long as the baby is healhty, you should be happy, eh...! :ugh2:
 
Cloggy said:
Figured that woul dbe the case...
By the way... do we meet in Hamburg next friday?


Unfortunlately I has to disappoint you that Hamburg is over 600 km away from my area. :|
 
Deehamilton said:
I too had it after my second child. They did a DNA genetic testing and told us that our chance of having Deaf children was 50 percent. They do a test with parents not a baby. But, What is wrong with having a deaf baby?? You alldeaf here are Deaf. What is your problem having a Deaf baby or a Hearing baby? The overall important is as long as the baby is healhty, you should be happy, eh...! :ugh2:


Huh? :confused: I never say that I don't want deaf baby. Can you please show me where I say?

This is post, I respond Cloggy's post because he said that he never heard that the doctor can find out that your future child is deaf or not before you start to have a baby. I told him what I know from my friend who went to hospitail with her husband to find out either their future baby is deaf or not because her husband have 6 deaf kids with his ex-wife, that's all.

http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=494988&postcount=129

I would suggest you to re-read my posts because I already said in my previous posts many times that the baby's healthy comes first than worry about deaf or hearing.
 
British National Newspaper "The Guardian" - 21st March 2006

What a coincidence :) - I received it in email from my deaf British friend today as it was written in British national newspaper "The Guardian", and thought you might like to know more too!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1735544,00.html


Subject: Guardian Unlimited: 'I hoped our baby would be deaf'[Scanned]






To see this story with its related links on the Guardian Unlimited site, go to http://www.guardian.co.uk



'I hoped our baby would be deaf'

Most parents would be distressed to learn that their child had been born unable to hear. But for Paula Garfield and Tomato Lichy, it means daughter Molly can share their special culture. Rebecca Atkinson reports Rebecca Atkinson Tuesday March 21 2006 The Guardian





When a pregnant mother is asked if she would prefer a boy or a girl the response is pretty formulaic - "I don't mind as long as it's healthy."

Which, put another way, means: "I don't mind as long as it's not impaired in any way." But what if the expectant mother or father actually preferred it if the baby wasn't "healthy", in the sense that we understand the word, but instead was profoundly deaf?



This is how Paula Garfield, artistic director of the London-based theatre company Deafinitely Theatre, felt when she was expecting her baby daughter, Molly. "When I was pregnant I did hope the baby would be deaf. Obviously, I would have loved a hearing baby equally, but inside, I really hoped she would be deaf like me."



For Garfield and her partner Tomato Lichy, an artist and writer, the diagnosis that Molly was profoundly deaf was a cause for joy rather than sadness. "When the doctor told us she was deaf I really wanted to smile, but I felt I shouldn't because the medical staff obviously thought deafness was a problem. Once we got home we celebrated though."



So, why? The answer, Lichy argues, lies in language. "Being deaf is not about being disabled, or medically incomplete - it's about being part of a linguistic minority. We're proud, not of the medical aspect of deafness, but of the language we use and the community we live in. We're delighted that that is something our daughter can share as she grows up."



Taking into account the widest spectrum of hearing impairment - from slightly hard of hearing to profoundly deaf - the Royal National Institute for the Deaf estimates that close to 9 million people in Britain have some degree of hearing loss. Most will be older people with age-related deafness: think of someone who turns the telly up loud or who says "you wot?" a lot. Around 55% of people over 60 have some degree of hearing loss compared to just 2% of young adults.



According to the Disability Rights Commission, somewhere between 30,000 and 70,000 deaf people use British Sign Language (BSL) as their first or preferred means of communication. Most of them will have either lost their hearing through illness such as meningitis in childhood, or, like Garfield and Lichy, have been born with congenital deafness to hearing parents (Garfield has a deaf twin sister; Lichy is the only deaf member of his family).



For the couple, it is very much Deaf with a capital D, denoting their identity within a cultural group, rather than a medical aggregate of people with less hearing than the majority. To them, deaf, like "black", is not purely a description of a physical attribute but an _expression of a cultural identity. British Sign Language, with its own complex vocabulary, regional dialects and syntax, is one aspect of this culture.

And deaf people aren't lonely, lifeless individuals who lie awake at night lamenting the tragedy that they can't hear the birds sing. In fact, Lichy laughs, "deafies" (a term many of the signing deaf community have reclaimed to describe themselves) "are the deepest sleepers around". No cockerel crowing, drunken shouting or Audi alarm will keep deaf people from their slumber.



"Most people's impression of deaf people is that they have no life and are missing out on lots of things," says Garfield. It's partly a result of how it is presented: "When people have written about deafness in plays, films and the media, they always say we 'suffer' from deafness, or we live in a 'silent' world. But our world isn't silent. That's rubbish. We're the noisiest people on earth!"



In Lichy's view, deafness is not about loss, it's about gain. "If only people knew about the deaf community, our rich culture and history, our parties and the closeness and pride that we feel in our shared identity.

Our language is so colourful, so alive. That's our sound, that's our music."



There are more than 300 deaf social clubs across the country and three universities (Bristol, Wolverhampton and Central Lancashire) that have academic centres for Deaf Studies and BSL. A specialist mail-order bookshop (Forest Books) stocks more than 1,000 titles about sign language, deaf issues, history and culture. There are two terrestrial TV magazine shows, See Hear (BBC2) and Vee TV (Channel4), both presented in BSL by deaf presenters, and a deaf drama, Switch (which Garfield stars

in) which has just finished its fourth series on BBC2. Deaf DJ and club promoter Troy Lee organises regular deaf raves that fill huge venues with thousands of deaf partygoers from all over the world. And an exhibition of deaf art (Deaf Wish) is on show this week at London's Woburn Gallery.



And that's just in Britain. In the US, you will find a national deaf beauty pageant (Miss Deaf America), a deaf university (Gallaudet,

Washington) where all lectures are conducted in sign language, and even a deaf pornography company, producing films with deaf actors and the usual stifled dialogue, moans and groans, in American Sign Language. And every four years more than 4,000 deaf athletes from 75 countries compete in the world Deaflympics, now more than 80 years old.



This is just a sliver of the deaf world that has led Garfield and Lichy to view their daughter's deafness not as something that needs to be fixed, but as a passport to inclusion in a rich and varied culture.

Perhaps, then, it is not so surprising that they have taken the controversial step of refusing hearing aids for Molly, who is now 14 months old.



"We both grew up forced to wear hearing aids. It's pretty awful to have this piece of equipment stuck to your ear from the moment you wake up to last thing at night," says Lichy, who, like many deaf people, discarded his own hearing aids once he reached adulthood. "The first day I stopped wearing my hearing aids I found it quite stressful, as I relied on them so much. But by the fifth day, I noticed my memory and concentration were starting to improve, and I felt more connected to myself and peaceful inside. I began to see more colour, light and harmony in my vision. Everything became more alive and vivid."



"Many people have the perception that if you are deaf you can just put a hearing aid in and you will hear," says Garfield. "But it's not like that. For some people with a mild hearing loss, a hearing aid can help.

But you can't cure profound deafness with a hearing aid. It's like blind people; you can't just put on glasses and see again."



The couple's stance has been questioned by medical professionals. "When we said that we didn't want a hearing aid for Molly the doctors reacted very badly," says Garfield. "They really changed their attitude towards us. Before, they were happy with us and our parenting skills. They had written to us to say that Molly was 'in an optimal home environment'.

But then they decided we were bad parents because, in their view, we were denying her an opportunity to develop. We have received several letters asking us to reconsider."



For Garfield and Lichy, this is all about accepting Molly as she is, rather than trying to remould her into the hearing child she isn't.

"It's an important time for Molly to learn about her body in its natural state," says Lichy. "How to use her hands and her vision. To give her hundreds of decibels straight into her ear with an amplifying device, when she can't control the volume herself or say if it's painful, is just wrong. A typical hearing aid for her age and level of deafness amplifies to 120dB or more. That's like standing next to a car horn, or a jackhammer banging away next to you. How can she learn to play, to focus, to concentrate with noises like that blasting into her ear? We refuse to do it to our baby. If she wants to wear them when she is older, then that will be her decision, and we won't stand in her way."



The couple are also adamant that while they are proud to be deaf and bring Molly up as part of the deaf community, they are not "anti-hearing". "Hearing people are also part of our world, they are our friends and our family," says Garfield. "We meet them every day when shopping and so on, so we want Molly to learn speech and be part of the hearing world too. We have already found several speech therapists with fluent signing skills to help Molly develop her spoken language."



They say Molly is on a developmental par with her hearing contemporaries, with a wide vocabulary in both sign language and English. "We are giving her English too," says Garfield. "She is copying my lip patterns. She is already signing around 50 words and can understand three-word sentences, which is as much as hearing children her age and a much larger vocabulary than profoundly deaf children of her age with hearing aids or cochlear implants and no access to sign language."



Still, they continue to feel under pressure to explain and defend their actions, and to fight against the assumption that what they have chosen for their child is wrong. Both have long experience of living with deafness, says Garfield. "We have deaf friends and families. But these doctors, and many other people, generally know so little about the deaf community, culture and language, yet they assume they know what is right for us. They have a perception that deafness is a physical failing that needs to be corrected. For us, it's just a different and equally valid way of being"



Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited
 
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Well, My define for healthy is a different meaning than having children with Disabilities, My define is for a baby to have clean bill of health, with no such as a disease, I don't like to see my baby going through a tug a war with life and death situation. Same thing as you take good care of yourself, You're be healthy too, same meaning what I'm talking about for babies. :thumb:
 
Cheri said:
Well, My define for healthy is a different meaning than having children with Disabilities, My define is for a baby to have clean bill of health, with no such as a disease, I don't like to see my baby going through a tug a war with life and death situation. Same thing as you take good care of yourself, You're be healthy too, same meaning what I'm talking about for babies. :thumb:

I see what you mean.. I would never consider a baby to be sick due to his/her deafness.. It wouldn't make much difference to me.. Just sign, and communication is on its way :)
 
I agreed with RebelGirl, Cheri, ^Angel^, etc whoever post abt healthy baby, dont care if they are hearing or deaf.

I born hearing then became sick for almost three years, I became deaf at 3 years old. My parents accepted me and learned sign language, my mom's dad(my grandpa) wanted me to getting CI so I can become hearing(its so bullshit). My mom took me to the hosptial and the doctor checked on my ears to seeing if I can have CI or cant, my doctor told my mom that its her choose if she STILL want me to get ci, he would respect but wanted to tell her the fact before too late, if I get a CI then I will become retard, I have alot of % to become retard if I get a CI. Then my mom thought deaf is good enough than being deaf and retard. My mom took me away and leaving. Until I became around 15 yrs old or so, I asked my mom that I want to have a CI and my mom said NO because I dont talk and read the lips that really good same like my boyfriend, Sequoias do. I thank my mom for not letting me to get CI. And, Im proud to be deaf. I dont care if my kids are deaf or hearing as long as they are healthy which its important to me. And, right now my aunt on my dad's side family already have a daugther and going to get another kid, she HOPE and PRAY for a deaf child because she want to have one but if her next kid is hearing then she dont care and will be accept it, she is hearing. Im pretty sure mostly of my family would accept their kids to be deaf or hearing because of me. Im only deaf in the family, they accepted it and dont care if their kids are deaf or hearing...
 
I will just step out since I am already an outsider at this forum and I don't really care about people's opinion of me--

I do *HOPE* I will have deaf children. Having a hearing child will be difficult for the child to deal when s/he realizes that we, the parents, are different from his/her peers' parents. You have met CODAs who refuse to socialize with deaf because of their experiences. I don't want to have a hearing CODA who hate Deafness because of us. I don't want my future supposedly hearing child to hate me for not getting a CI. I don't want my future supposedly hearing child to take advantage of my deafness by sneaking out or whatnot. a lot of CODAs today love to have deaf parents because they feel they can get away with anything-- calling their mothers a bitch behind back. Yes, I don't trust hearing people. I admit it. Why? Because culturally, they are different. I don't want to have a hearing child and to lose him/her just because of cultural difference.

I HOPE FOR is for a CHILD who LOVES the way we ARE and CHERISH who we are and the UNIQUENESS and PRIDE that child will grow up with our Deaf Culture...

However I have given it a deep consideration and I *think* a deaf child will be easier for me to handle than a hearing child because that way I can pass on my culture without confusing my child. at least I am honest. I have discussed this with my husband and I have spoken with many of our friends and most said 50-50 for deaf and hearing... they all fear the same-- that the hearing children will backlash at us for forcing too much Deafness on it, or deaf child will backlash us for not making right choices e.g. deaf school/mainstream/CI/hearingaids/speech thearpy/and the list goes on...

[EDITED:]
I just want to asnwer Cloggy's question about why is it OK for a Deaf person to wish for a Deaf child but offensive when a Hearing person wish for a hearing child...
Let's switch-a-roo the shoes!
How would you feel if I give birth to a hearing child today.. and I am VERY disappointed to find out that the baby is hearing and I declare my wish for it be Deaf? Will you be offended?

***NO FRIGGING PROTESTS ABOUT "BUT BUT BUT ITS HEALTH IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ITS EARS!" I am letting Cloggy having HIS answer, nothing more! BACK OFF-- I DO BITE!***

Back to my scenario: Cloggy-- you, as a hearing person, probably would be VERY offended for me to wish my hearing child, already born, to be deaf.
Now... a deaf person will share the sentiments when they find out that you wish your already born Deaf child to be hearing.
However your THREAD is concerned about our WISHES for the baby before it is BORN.
In all honesty I will cross my fingers on the day my future child is being born that it will be Deaf. If my child turns out to be Hearing-- no biggie. it is a 50-50 chance... I will love it the same. :)

If you think about it, it is the same thing when people wants their babyt o be a girl or boy... Nobody is getting offended if the person mentions their wishes before thebirth... however after the birth, the child is being affected when their parents told the child that they wished the child to be the other gender. my mother told my brother, who is the firstborn, that she wished for a daughter to be first but got stuck with a son. People-- BE CAREFUL of what you said after the person is being brought into this world!!!!
 
Precisely gnarlydorkette, Cloggy, by saying that you wish your daughter was hearing, you're degenrating us. We don't see ourselves as living without hearing.....We only have the very basic idear of what hearing is....most if not all of us don't understand what the big fuss is about hearing. I mean I like to hear...and love music, but I still hear as a dhh person, NOT as a hearing person. We only have the very barest most academic idear of what hearing even IS!
 
gnarlydorkette said:
I don't want my future supposedly hearing child to take advantage of my deafness by sneaking out or whatnot. a lot of CODAs today love to have deaf parents because they feel they can get away with anything-- calling their mothers a bitch behind back.

I'm not proud to admit this, but hearing kids sometimes take advantage of hearing parents, too. When I was a teenager, there were times when, after having a fight with my parents and the door was shut after me, I'd flip the bird at the closed door because I knew there was no way they'd see it.

I also know of kids with hearing parents who would sneak out of the house, go and get drunk, and stuff like that. The problem with these parents in my personal opinion is they didn't really KNOW their kid, didn't really have a good bond with them. They didn't know their children well enough to realize that these things were going on. They were just ABSENT.

Yes, I don't trust hearing people. I admit it. Why? Because culturally, they are different. I don't want to have a hearing child and to lose him/her just because of cultural difference.

That need not always happen. Immigrant families sometimes go through the same thing with their children who are born in America. Some have a difficult time because of the cultural difference between them and their kids--but others just do fine. Each family should be thought of and treated as an individual.

If you were to send a message through your words or actions (or even INactions) to a hearing child that they were not accepted, not trusted, I'm not sure you'd get a very good response in return. That child would feel as if there were nothing he or she could do to earn your love. There was a time when (for totally different reasons) my parents and I didn't really trust each other, and I actually think I hid more from my parents because I knew I was not trusted.
 
. People-- BE CAREFUL of what you said after the person is being brought into this world!!!!


Yes that right that why i tried tell this Cloggy .. but he keep blah ...
 
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