want to hear your opinions about cochlear implant

[posts from hell]

Seriously? You have to free your mind from your reflexive response to the CI issue to see it, I guess.

Look at this immediate juxtaposition of "Cochlear implants is an invasive procedure and if done even slightly wrong it could cause more bad than good." followed immediately by "Also who are hearing people to tell the Deaf world what is bad or not."

And then tell me you don't see the humor in in a hearing person 1st telling a group on a deaf forum what's good or bad and then telling us that hearing people shouldn't tell deaf or hearing people what's good or bad.

OK, let's rephrase the post in non-controversial terms: I am short and posting on a forum for tall people. Popcorn is an ugly color. Short people shouldn't tell tall people what's ugly. You don't see that the poster did exactly what she then immediately said people such as herself shouldn't do?

The problem with this discussion is that aside bad English - "Cochlear implants is an invasive procedure and if done even slightly wrong it could cause more bad than good." - is a fact.

I have to agree with her in this case. The extreme majority of the hearing population don't see what they do to the deaf, they don't feel the ways the deaf do... It's all that medical thing again, trying to make the deaf as close to hearing as possible.

Of course, I am not surprised people have problems with "letting the deaf be."

 

[GrendelQ]

The problem with this discussion is that aside bad English - "Cochlear implants is an invasive procedure and if done even slightly wrong it could cause more bad than good." - is a fact.

I have to agree with her in this case. The extreme majority of the hearing population don't see what they do to the deaf, they don't feel the ways the deaf do... It's all that medical thing again, trying to make the deaf as close to hearing as possible.

Of course, I am not surprised people have problems with "letting the deaf be."

I am perfectly fine with you sharing that opinion with her -- whether I agree with that or not is not my point at all. The CI issue is a red herring. Look at the popcorn statement to see the conflict in the two statements without having your shared opinion about CIs cloud your perspective.

 

[posts from hell]

I am perfectly fine with you sharing that opinion with her -- whether I agree with that or not is not my point at all. The CI issue is a red herring. Look at the popcorn statement to see the conflict in the two statements without having your shared opinion about CIs cloud your perspective.

Fact vs opinion?

Popcorn is an ugly color = opinion.

"Cochlear implants is an invasive procedure and if done even slightly wrong it could cause more bad than good." = fact.

Just out of curiosity - would you have said something if she didn't use CI as a topic of her opinion?

 

[AlleyCat]

It seems like it's an endless cycle when people yell out "What? Am I not allowed to have an opinion?" IF their opinion causes people to have opinion THEMSELVES.

A: "I'm thinking about getting a CI."
B: "I think CIs are stupid."
A: "CIs are not stupid. They can help people! How can you say that?"
B: "What? am I not allowed to have an opinion?"
A: "What? am I not allowed to have an opinion to your opinion?"

B:

Exactly. That's what I was trying to say. (Don't know about the last "B" though )

 

[GrendelQ]

Fact vs opinion?

Popcorn is an ugly color = opinion.

"Cochlear implants is an invasive procedure and if done even slightly wrong it could cause more bad than good." = fact.

Just out of curiosity - would you have said something if she didn't use CI as a topic of her opinion?

Oh no, let's not go there. It's a fact that popcorn is a lovely color, so let's get that off the table right now. Are you anti-popcorn?

And yes, I would have said she was being hypocritical if she had made the same statement pair about popcorn. But she didn't. She may not feel as comfortable weighing in on the topic of popcorn as she is about the medical issues of CIs, so she was probably just sticking to her areas of expertise: deafness, deaf culture, ASL, and surgery. I take no issue with her analysis of these things, I'm sure she can inform all of us on these topics.

What remains funny, though, is that a hearing person is telling a deaf forum what's bad and what's good and then telling us that hearing people shouldn't tell deaf or hearing people what's bad and what's good.

 

[posts from hell]

Oh no, let's not go there. It's a fact that popcorn is a lovely color, so let's get that off the table right now. Are you anti-popcorn?

And yes, I would have said she was being hypocritical if she had made the same statement pair about popcorn. But she didn't. She may not feel as comfortable weighing in on the topic of popcorn as she is about the medical issues of CIs, so she was probably just sticking to her areas of expertise: deafness, deaf culture, ASL, and surgery. I take no issue with her analysis of these things, I'm sure she can inform all of us on these topics.

What remains funny, though, is that a hearing person is telling a deaf forum what's bad and what's good and then telling us that hearing people shouldn't tell deaf or hearing people what's bad and what's good.

Please take note I didn't say popcorn being an ugly color was a fact.

I asked that question because quite frankly there's a pattern, you usually don't post in the general chat - but whenever there's a CI topic, you're magically there. So if they were any run of the mill opinion/topic what not, I seriously doubt you would have came out the woods to call them out. After all I don't see you going after the countless of hypocritical comments all over the forum.

I understand your perspective but here's mine; why is it a problem for a hearing person to tell other people in general "leave the deaf be, allow them to do what they wish"?

 

[GrendelQ]

I asked that question because quite frankly there's a pattern, you usually don't post in the general chat - but whenever there's a CI topic, you're magically there. ...

I understand your perspective but here's mine; why is it a problem for a hearing person to tell other people in general "leave the deaf be, allow them to do what they wish"?

1. Actually, I don't believe that's true. I may post more often in the CI-related threads because I know more about the equipment than I do about the equipment discussed in, let's say, the penisarium . And I can't tell a joke to save my life, so I just read the joke posts, and don't contribute. But I do participate in general chat and deaf ed, and parenting, and ASL, and wishing happy birthdays, etc.. And I have called out several issues that have nothing to do with CIs or are not directly harmful to me (racism, homophobia, bullying), although I'm not a one man AD police force, so I typically only state my piece if I happen to be part of the conversation already.

2. Where did I say that it's a problem for a hearing person to tell other people in general "leave the deaf be, allow them to do what they wish"? Not at all. I too believe -- as the poster stated -- that people shouldn't tell others whether or not they should get CIs for themselves or their children, but have the right to make those decisions for themselves and their families. You aren't following what I'm pointing out here as a conflict, are you?

 

[posts from hell]

1. Actually, I don't believe that's true. I may post more often in the CI-related threads because I know more about the equipment than I do about the equipment discussed in, let's say, the penisarium . And I can't tell a joke to save my life, so I just read the joke posts, and don't contribute. But I do participate in general chat and deaf ed, and parenting, and ASL, and wishing happy birthdays, etc.. And I have called out several issues that have nothing to do with CIs or are directly harmful to me (racism, homophobia, bullying), although I'm not a one man AD police force, so I typically only state my piece if I happen to be part of the conversation already.

2. Where did I say that it's a problem for a hearing person to tell other people in general "leave the deaf be, allow them to do what they wish"? Not at all. I too believe -- as the poster stated -- that people shouldn't tell others whether or not they should get CIs for themselves or their children, but have the right to make those decisions for themselves and their families. You aren't following what I'm pointing out here as a conflict, are you?

1.) i spot a hypocritical statement...... I see a joke while you say you couldnt produce one. :P

2.) I see your conflict that you're trying to produce but I dont believe it is the same thing.

The difference is in your conflict you produced - you used an opinion, while she used fact.

I see what you mean, but I dont agree.

 

[GrendelQ]

1.) The difference is in your conflict you produced - you used an opinion, while she used fact.

That's your opinion.

 

[posts from hell]

That's your opinion.

Not really. Countless people share the same feeling. It's invasive, and one mistake = mess up, bad. I have personally seen quite a few mess ups.

I don't see where theres a lack of fact in there.

 

[GrendelQ]

Not really. Countless people share the same feeling. It's invasive, and one mistake = mess up, bad. I have personally seen quite a few mess ups.

I don't see where theres a lack of fact in there.

While that statement may ring true to you and your expert poster, it does not ring true to me and many others. If you produced the stats for CI surgeries and found a way to have a non-subjective assessment of what is "wrong" and "not wrong" (using her language) and then took a look at "good" vs "bad" results and showed that there were more bad results than good, you might have something there that could change my perception of whether your statement is verifiable or untrue.

Same with whether or not popcorn color is pleasing. It may be a fact for many that it is pleasing, and yet some may not agree. No one is wrong. It's not an absolute.

But really, that isn't the point, is it? The point is that rather than just state her opinion, or pose her "fact" about what's bad and good, the poster then followed by stating that people shouldn't do as she had just done.

 

[posts from hell]

While that statement may ring true to you and your expert poster, it does not ring true to me and many others. If you produced the stats for CI surgeries and found a way to have a non-subjective assessment of what is "wrong" and "not wrong" (using her language) and then took a look at "good" vs "bad" results and showed that there were more bad results than good, you might have something there that could change my perception of whether your statement is verifiable or untrue.

Same with whether or not popcorn color is pleasing. It may be a fact for many that it is pleasing, and yet some may not agree. No one is wrong. It's not an absolute.

But really, that isn't the point, is it? The point is that rather than just state her opinion, or pose her "fact" about what's bad and good, the poster then followed by stating that people shouldn't do as she had just done.

Trying to blur it?

She said pretty much one mistake - its bad. that's true. thankfully a lot of doctors are competent. It's an invasive surgery, bar none.

 

[shel90]

So it's not okay for someone to voice their opinion on whether a deaf child should be subject to a CI operation whether they choose to or not (which basically is what it is, when it's done at 9 months, a year old, etc.) ?

Interesting thing is that this thread is asking for people's opinions about them.

 

[GrendelQ]

Trying to blur it?

She said pretty much one mistake - its bad. that's true. thankfully a lot of doctors are competent. It's an invasive surgery, bar none.

Oh, you thought I was arguing with you about whether or not surgery is invasive? Not me.

 

[posts from hell]

Oh, you thought I was arguing with you about whether or not surgery is invasive? Not me.

Nah... I was just stating it was a fact.

 

[deafskeptic]

Interesting thing is that this thread is asking for people's opinions about them.

I feel there's something ironic about what you just said given the direction that this thread went in.

 

[shel90]

Some people are for CIs and some people are against them. We all knew that way before this thread was started.

 

[deafskeptic]

Some people are for CIs and some people are against them. We all knew that way before this thread was started.

Yeah. I don't try to push my views on others.

 

[posts from hell]

I feel there's something ironic about what you just said given the direction that this thread went in.

i know, and the irony in the like.. hmm

 

[Hohtopics]

I am hearing and I firmly believe that it is not the hearing worlds place to tell Deaf or hearing adults what to do with their bodies or their childrens bodies. Cochlear implants is an invasive procedure and if done even slightly wrong it could cause more bad than good. Also who are hearing people to tell the Deaf world what is bad or not. The decision to get or not get a cochlear implant is up to the person who is Deaf not the indiviguals around them. It is not their body so it should not be their choice and the hearing world definatly needs to stay out of it. WE DO NOT have the right to make decisions for people just because we can hear, big poop.

FYI, it's actually some of the deaf that wants to hear better.

To be honest I think that if I was Deaf I would probably be able to appreciate what beauty there is around me and not be to focused on technology and stuff like that. ASL and the Deaf World is all about visual so I can only imagine how much more beautiful things are without the distraction or noise.

Until you reach that point, you really don't know for sure.