Vegetarian verus Meat eater

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Vegetarian vs meat diet
by Dr Chris Brown

Are there greater health benefits associated with a vegetarian diet or do meat-eaters get more of the nutrients? Dr Chris cuts through the myths and sorts out the facts.

For many years, the decision to follow a vegetarian diet was regarded as a noble but deprived existence at best, and cranky at worst. This was perhaps reflected in the name of the most famous vegetarian restaurant in my area in those days - Cranks.

As the number of vegetarians has grown, and the range of food available has become wider, it has become clear that most vegetarians enjoy their food a great deal and, what is more, there are possible health benefits associated with vegetarian eating.

So which type of diet is better for you, vegetarian or meat-eating (best described as an omnivorous diet rather than a carnivorous diet)? And what are the benefits and pitfalls of each?

Vegetarian diet

Good points

Perhaps the most obvious benefit of vegetarian eating is the reduced risk of coronary heart disease. Vegetarians tend to have lower levels of LDL cholesterol (the bad stuff), reduced clotting factors, lower blood pressure and a lower incidence of diabetes. These reduced risks are because vegetarian diets usually have:


Lower saturated fat content

Higher fibre content

Lower salt content

Larger amounts of fruit and vegetables, so more antioxidant vitamins

More complex carbohydrates and fewer simple sugars


A study showed that people who ate raw salad/vegetables three to four times a week had up to a 50% lower incidence of heart disease and cancer than non-salad eaters, regardless of how much meat they ate These benefits are slightly less pronounced in vegetarian diets that incorporate large amounts of dairy products such as hard cheeses, eggs and cream. However, inclusion of some dairy produce does reduce the likelihood of some of the nutritional deficiencies that can be associated with a vegan diet.

Cancer risk may also lower with a vegetarian diet, particularly cancer of the colon. There is also some evidence that vegetarian diets (or diets with only a small meat content) may reduce the risk of cancer of the breast, pancreas, prostate and kidney.

Bad points

A carefully planned and varied vegetarian diet can provide all the necessary nutrients, but this can take time and effort to achieve, so many vegetarians are at risk of some nutritional deficiencies. The situation isn't helped by the relatively narrow range of vegetarian foods offered in pubs, restaurants and cafés. Vegetarians who want to eat out with omnivorous friends on a regular basis have difficulty getting a balanced diet. The most common nutritional problems include:


Iron deficiency Meat is an important iron source, so vegetarians must be careful to include good iron sources such as eggs, leafy green vegetables, dried fruit, fortified cereals, peas, beans, nuts and pulses. Iron from vegetable sources is less easily absorbed than from meat sources, but the absorption is improved by vitamin C, so a good vitamin C source such as fruit or fruit juice should be included with every meal. Iron absorption is reduced by tannins in tea and coffee, so these, ideally, shouldn't be drunk with a meal.


Vitamin B12 deficiency and calcium deficiency These are only usually a problem if dairy products are not included in the diet. Although meat is a good source of B12, sufficient quantities can be found in eggs, cheese, milk and yoghurts. Yeast products such as Marmite are also a good source. Non-dairy sources of calcium include sesame and sunflower seeds, and pulses such as peas, beans and lentils.


Looking for healthy eating plans? Let's talk

Vitamin D deficiency Fish and fish oils are the best dietary source of vitamin D, but eggs and milk products provide some. In the UK, margarines are reinforced with vitamin D, as are some cereals. The main source of vitamin D is through the action of sunlight on the skin, so dietary sources are less important for many vegetarians, but can still be important for those who get little sun exposure, or for children, whose bones are growing.


Amino-acid balance and protein content Body proteins are made from amino acids, many of which are derived from dietary proteins. Animal proteins are the most easily accessible form of protein, and contain a wide range of amino acids. Although dairy products provide a good protein source for most vegetarians, it is important to have protein from other sources also. Vegans are at the highest risk of protein deficiency, as vegetable proteins are often low in certain essential amino acids such as lysine and methionine. Regular inclusion of rice, nuts, seeds and grains is important to ensure a good amino-acid balance.


Minerals Vegetarians have often been found to have lower blood levels of some minerals such as copper, zinc and selenium. Crops grown with artificial fertiliser are particularly low in minerals. It may be sensible for vegetarians to take a multimineral supplement.

Meat-eating

Good points

Meat is a good source of protein, iron, B-group vitamins, and calories. The wide variety of meat products available makes it easy to have a varied and enjoyable diet without much inconvenience. As a meat and fish eater myself, I would add that they simply taste great, and for many people, turn eating into a source of great pleasure. Nutrition experts generally agree that there is little convincing evidence that meat itself is bad. The amount of meat eaten, and especially the amount of red meat (beef, lamb and pork) is more important when looking at health risk. Inclusion of some low-fat meat and fish doesn't seem to be in any way harmful, and can be beneficial in lowering the risk of nutrient deficiencies.

Bad points

There are health concerns relating to diets with a high meat content. Many nutritionists advise limiting red meat intake to less than 80g (about 3oz) a day, and eating more fish and poultry.

The two main concerns relating to high red meat intakes are:

High saturated-fat intake, leading to increased levels of blood cholesterol, and an increased risk of coronary heart disease and strokes

A possible increased cancer risk, especially colon cancer.

These risks may be a direct effect of the meat itself, but may possibly be due to the filling effect of the meat, and so the relatively poor intake of fruit, vegetables, pulses and grains in big meat eaters. There is only so much room on your plate and in your stomach, and a meat-rich meal doesn't leave much scope for plant-based foods. It has been suggested that meat should be 'used as a condiment', to add flavour and interest to a plant-food diet.

Other detrimental effects of a diet with a high meat content include:

Low fibre intake

Higher salt intake, particularly with products such as bacon, sausages, burgers and processed meats. Cold meats such as ham and salamis have a high salt content.


So which is healthier?

A well-balanced diet of either kind is good for you. With any diet, it is important to incorporate a wide range of foods to ensure a good nutrient intake. An omnivorous diet that has a limited red meat content and includes plenty of fruit and vegetables doesn't appear to be any less healthy than a vegetarian diet. A recent study showed that people who ate raw/salad vegetables three to four times a week had up to a 50% lower incidence of heart disease and cancer than non-salad eaters, regardless of how much meat they ate.

handbag.com: Vegetarian vs meat diet - the great debate


Come and discuss about cons and pros over those diets. :thumb:
 
While I read whole the article, and I am still glad that I am vegetarian. I don't want to have cancer, risk of heart attack, strokes, dirty colon, etc. Seems too much pain compare to vegetarian lifestyle. I'd rather to have weak body than having pain strokes or heart attacks or cancers..

Before I became vegetarian, I was used to be a big hot dog lover, not cooked, a raw hot dog, just eat it with the ketchup, also was used to chop many hotdogs like probably 5 hotdogs and put in the bowl then mix with ketchup, then eat them all.

But later I decide to be vegetarian because I have too soft heart for animals, and when I start being vegetarian, at the first days, I feel so hungry. I feel like I must eat every minute, but I got used with it. Also since I stopped eat the meat, I don't feel any pain in my stomach anymore for long time. I feel much better being vegetarian because everytime I eat the meat, the picture of death animals like cow hanging, horse with spladder stomach, chopped head chicken, etc. appear in my mind which makes me feel sick.

Anyway, while reading this article, I am still glad that I am vegetarian.
 
I agree with most of that article. I know that there are less then healthy vegan/vegitarian diets as I wasn't as healthy when I first went vegan due not eating enough veg and not having an adiquate form of B12. However since getting rid of my deep fat frier and my microwave and getting a steamer instead plus making more effort to include more green leafy veg and fruit as well as a B12 supliment, my health has definately improved.

Vitamin B12 deficiency and calcium deficiency These are only usually a problem if dairy products are not included in the diet. Although meat is a good source of B12, sufficient quantities can be found in eggs, cheese, milk and yoghurts. Yeast products such as Marmite are also a good source. Non-dairy sources of calcium include sesame and sunflower seeds, and pulses such as peas, beans and lentils.

Calcium deficincy isn't the problem it's been made out to be. Even if you don't drink milk. You should eat veg like Kale and take care to eat things Tofu and suplimented soya milk as well as sesame and sunflower seeds, and pulses such as peas, beans and lentils as mentioned on that list.

Also a meat eater needs more calcium then a vegitarian or vegan as there is something in meat that makes this so. I can't really explain but I read it somewhere and I'll see if I can find a better way of explaining.

However B12 is not naturally found in plant foods so you either have to take a supliment or eat plenty of food with B12 added to it such as certain brands of soya milk and yeast. Ovo vegitarians don't have to worry about B12 as there is plenty of that in eggs although unfortunately high colesterol is found in eggs too.

Another thing I disagree on is fish and chicken being considered healthy. Most sea fish contains mercury which can do quite a bit of damage to ones imune system as well as causing food poisoning if not cooked enough.

Battery Chicken and eggs are very bad for you too as the chickens are pumped with antibiotics, growth hormones and is likely to contain salmonella and Ecoli. The regular intake of antibiotics in ones diet can also form a resistance so one is more prone to superbugs.

I've also mentioned before, my view on dairy products. They can be even more inhumane and unhealthy then meat.
 
I agree with most of that article. I know that there are less then healthy vegan/vegitarian diets as I wasn't as healthy when I first went vegan due not eating enough veg and not having an adiquate form of B12. However since getting rid of my deep fat frier and my microwave and getting a steamer instead plus making more effort to include more green leafy veg and fruit as well as a B12 supliment, my health has definately improved.



Calcium deficincy isn't the problem it's been made out to be. Even if you don't drink milk. You should eat veg like Kale and take care to eat things Tofu and suplimented soya milk as well as sesame and sunflower seeds, and pulses such as peas, beans and lentils as mentioned on that list.

Also a meat eater needs more calcium then a vegitarian or vegan as there is something in meat that makes this so. I can't really explain but I read it somewhere and I'll see if I can find a better way of explaining.

However B12 is not naturally found in plant foods so you either have to take a supliment or eat plenty of food with B12 added to it such as certain brands of soya milk and yeast. Ovo vegitarians don't have to worry about B12 as there is plenty of that in eggs although unfortunately high colesterol is found in eggs too.

Another thing I disagree on is fish and chicken being considered healthy. Most sea fish contains mercury which can do quite a bit of damage to ones imune system as well as causing food poisoning if not cooked enough.

Battery Chicken and eggs are very bad for you too as the chickens are pumped with antibiotics, growth hormones and is likely to contain salmonella and Ecoli. The regular intake of antibiotics in ones diet can also form a resistance so one is more prone to superbugs.

I've also mentioned before, my view on dairy products. They can be even more inhumane and unhealthy then meat.

Good luck with your future children to get ricket or bone issue, also calcium deficincy is serious problem on children too.

When compare with other meat, turkey, chicken and seafood like fish are more healthier than beef, pork and other red meats.

Who cares about vegetable only, that's not enough for my hunger then I rather to eat full meal with meat, 2 of vegetable, grain (like bread) and other but depends on kind of meal. I bet that you are trying to make all people to become vegan and banned on kill of animal for food, that isn't gonna to be happen.

For vegan, you need take alot of vitamin and mineral pills to keep maintain on health.
 
I don't understand what is healthy about diet that requires you to take bunch of artificial supplements.
Like Calcium, Iron, various Vitamins.

The best, healthy way is always from natural source.

Fuzzy
 
oh, and one more thing.

Milk unhealthy because of hormones, antibiotics etc.
Meat unhealthy because of hormones, antibiotcs etc.
Fish unhealthy because of Mercury.

Okay, that proves that if you get rid of these "additives" what you get is HEALTHY food. No reason to be vegetarian anymore.
So, go get organic milk, meat, fish.


hmm... I never saw the point of being vegetarian anyway.

Fuzzy
 
Animals have receive antibiotic to kill bacteria, hormone to make increase more pounds on meats, such as more enough for people to eat it.

If there's no antibiotic or hormone then meats would be expensive, also diffcult to find natural meats at grocery store with no antibiotic and hormone.

Vegetables does have bacteria too like spinach, tomato and lettuce.
 
oh, and one more thing.

Milk unhealthy because of hormones, antibiotics etc.
Meat unhealthy because of hormones, antibiotcs etc.
Fish unhealthy because of Mercury.

Okay, that proves that if you get rid of these "additives" what you get is HEALTHY food. No reason to be vegetarian anymore.
So, go get organic milk, meat, fish.


hmm... I never saw the point of being vegetarian anyway.

Fuzzy

hmm... I see no point to eat the meat while we can get the same thing that we need from vegetables or fruits.
 
I am trying to be neutral between Vegatarian and Meat Eater.

I am not Vegatarian or Vegan but I beleive in eat natural and healthy nutrition instead of take articficial supplements to strength my healthy. I take dairy products to build calcuim, protein, vitamins, processed meats to build protein, iron and vegetables - some protein, vitamins... Use good fat oil.

I only eat 4 different meats (chicken, turkey, lean pork and beef).
 
Animals have receive antibiotic to kill bacteria, hormone to make increase more pounds on meats, such as more enough for people to eat it.

If there's no antibiotic or hormone then meats would be expensive, also diffcult to find natural meats at grocery store with no antibiotic and hormone.

I am sorry that I respectfully disagree with you on this.

Hormone and antibiotic affect people's healthy... The Hormone and antibiotic in animals are banned in Europe countries.

It explains in links why....



* Many nations including the UK, the Netherlands, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Canada, Germany, and many other European countries had banned the routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock. In the U.S., bills had been introduced in Congress to follow suit, but lobbying by the meat industry had successfully prevented these bills from becoming law.

Growth Hormones

* After the European Union banned the sale of hormone-treated meat within European Union countries, the U.S. complained to the WTO. The WTO ruled that the European Union was required to pay the U.S. $150 million per year as compensation for lost profit, despite a lengthy report by independent scientists showing that some hormones added to U.S. meat are complete carcinogens—capable of causing cancer by themselves. —"European Union Says Beef Hormones Can Cause Cancer" Meat Industry Insights

* To the European Union, the health risks from the hormones in U.S. beef are so great that they are willing to pay $150 million a year if necessary rather than allow U.S. beef to cross their borders.

The use of beef hormone implants are illegal in the EU


The Cost of Meat—The Public Health Argument | Wise Bread


skatingforums.com - Why is American Milk Banned in Europe?



Bovine Growth Hormone

The approval by the FDA to use recombinant bovine somatotropin (rBST- better known as bovine growth hormone or BGH ) to increase milk production by 20-30 percent since 1994 is a cause for alarm. BGH is banned in Europe and Canada. Cows so treated have high levels of IGF-1 (the serrogate marker of growth hormone in the blood), from 2 to 10 times higher than normal cow's milk. While BGH milk contains no more IGF-1 than human breast milk, very few adults continue to drink human breast milk throughout life. Furthermore, pasteurization not only does not destroy IFG-1, but actually increases its concentration in BGH-milk.

BGH's other action on the cow includes decreasing the body fat and increase its lean body mass. This bodily composition is characteristic of a young and strong cow, and the intake of BGH is designed to mimic this state of health. Unfortunately, when BGH is given to adult and mature cows, the body fat is already contaminated with a wide range of toxins from grain-fed, hormone-enhanced, and antibiotic-laced diet since these toxins are normally stored it the fat. When the fat mass decreases, these toxins are transported into the cow's milk.

Once taken in orally by humans, IGF-1 from BGH enriched milk can enter the blood stream from the intestine and increase the risk of breast and prostate cancer. The widespread use of this genetically engineered product has been linked to the proliferation of breast, prostate, and colon cancer cells in humans. Selected studies have shown that men with an IGF-1 level between 300-500 mg/dl have more than four times the risk of developing prostate cancer compare to those with a level between 100 to 185 mg/dl. The risk is more pronounced in men over 60 years of age, where the risk of prostate cancer is eight times higher than control. The elevated IGF-1 levels were present several years before an actual diagnosis of prostate cancer.


Milk - the Perfect Food?



Vegetables does have bacteria too like spinach, tomato and lettuce.

Well, you can wash them with water to rid of bacteria and also chemical spray as well... I am not saying that it's 100% safe but best is take organic fruits, vegetables etc....



 
I am sorry that I respectfully disagree with you on this.

Hormone and antibiotic affect people's healthy... The Hormone and antibiotic in animals are banned in Europe countries.

It explains in links why....



* Many nations including the UK, the Netherlands, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Canada, Germany, and many other European countries had banned the routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock. In the U.S., bills had been introduced in Congress to follow suit, but lobbying by the meat industry had successfully prevented these bills from becoming law.

Growth Hormones

* After the European Union banned the sale of hormone-treated meat within European Union countries, the U.S. complained to the WTO. The WTO ruled that the European Union was required to pay the U.S. $150 million per year as compensation for lost profit, despite a lengthy report by independent scientists showing that some hormones added to U.S. meat are complete carcinogens—capable of causing cancer by themselves. —"European Union Says Beef Hormones Can Cause Cancer" Meat Industry Insights

* To the European Union, the health risks from the hormones in U.S. beef are so great that they are willing to pay $150 million a year if necessary rather than allow U.S. beef to cross their borders.

The use of beef hormone implants are illegal in the EU






Bovine Growth Hormone

The approval by the FDA to use recombinant bovine somatotropin (rBST- better known as bovine growth hormone or BGH ) to increase milk production by 20-30 percent since 1994 is a cause for alarm. BGH is banned in Europe and Canada. Cows so treated have high levels of IGF-1 (the serrogate marker of growth hormone in the blood), from 2 to 10 times higher than normal cow's milk. While BGH milk contains no more IGF-1 than human breast milk, very few adults continue to drink human breast milk throughout life. Furthermore, pasteurization not only does not destroy IFG-1, but actually increases its concentration in BGH-milk.

BGH's other action on the cow includes decreasing the body fat and increase its lean body mass. This bodily composition is characteristic of a young and strong cow, and the intake of BGH is designed to mimic this state of health. Unfortunately, when BGH is given to adult and mature cows, the body fat is already contaminated with a wide range of toxins from grain-fed, hormone-enhanced, and antibiotic-laced diet since these toxins are normally stored it the fat. When the fat mass decreases, these toxins are transported into the cow's milk.

Once taken in orally by humans, IGF-1 from BGH enriched milk can enter the blood stream from the intestine and increase the risk of breast and prostate cancer. The widespread use of this genetically engineered product has been linked to the proliferation of breast, prostate, and colon cancer cells in humans. Selected studies have shown that men with an IGF-1 level between 300-500 mg/dl have more than four times the risk of developing prostate cancer compare to those with a level between 100 to 185 mg/dl. The risk is more pronounced in men over 60 years of age, where the risk of prostate cancer is eight times higher than control. The elevated IGF-1 levels were present several years before an actual diagnosis of prostate cancer.


Milk - the Perfect Food?





Well, you can wash them with water to rid of bacteria and also chemical spray as well... I am not saying that it's 100% safe but best is take organic fruits, vegetables etc....




Your disagree has been nowhere, I was explained about what means of antibiotic and hormone but it wasn't from my opinion, it was from fact on nutrient classes that I had took this course. I know that antibiotic and hormone does affect people's health, that's not new to me.

Meat industries in USA are just greedy, they made alot of money on hormone to make increase of pounds to get enough supply for people, if not then they will suffers from loss of money or whatever. I had checked some of grocery stores that don't offers to sell natural meats with no antibiotic and hormone except for eggs. Natural meats are cost more than meat with antibiotic and hormone.

I'm not fan of meats with antibiotic and hormone, I had accept to eat because of diffcult to find natural meats at grocery store, especially on specialty meat with plastic tray and wrapped plastic over tray. There's some natural meat like hotdog, eggs, bacon, sliced turkey and sliced chicken at grocery food but specialty meat got nothing.

For example of specialty meat... full of antibiotic and hormone...
POULTRY1.JPG

500_meat%20tray.jpg

caseready_all.jpg
 
Pacman, I understand what you are trying to explain. Yes you are right about first part of your post about increase the pounds on the meat etc but I disagree with 2nd part of your post:

If there's no antibiotic or hormone then meats would be expensive, also diffcult to find natural meats at grocery store with no antibiotic and hormone.

You menioned in your post "If".... expensive... diffcuilt to find natural meats... got me :confused: because someone stated in other thread that US strict health law. I tried to explain you what and why I disagree (I know I should say "I respectfully disagree on this" instead of "with you on this").I thought US law know about antibiotic and hormone risk people´s health until you explained me... I understand...

You said that it´s not easy to find natural meat in your hometown. You got me wondering... Don´t they have butcher shop in your hometown?
 
Pacman, I understand what you are trying to explain. Yes you are right about first part of your post about increase the pounds on the meat etc but I disagree with 2nd part of your post:

If there's no antibiotic or hormone then meats would be expensive, also diffcult to find natural meats at grocery store with no antibiotic and hormone.

You menioned in your post "If".... expensive... diffcuilt to find natural meats... got me :confused: because someone stated in other thread that US strict health law. I tried to explain you what and why I disagree (I know I should say "I respectfully disagree on this" instead of "with you on this").I thought US law know about antibiotic and hormone risk people´s health until you explained me... I understand...

You said that it´s not easy to find natural meat in your hometown. You got me wondering... Don´t they have butcher shop in your hometown?

I means if there's no law for ban on antibiotic and hormone then it's already too diffcult to find natural meats (specialty meat) and it's existing... If bill is pass to ban on antibiotic and hormone then would be much more easier to find without any mistake. Only problem that would increase in price, expensive or inexpensive can be anywhere, depends on location that where you live.

I have no idea about butcher shop, I'm not goint to waste of my time to buy in different grocery store, I just prefer to buy at one grocery store aka Super Target at all time.

Super Target is hypermarket, combined with GM and grocery, that I love to shopping.
 
hmm... I see no point to eat the meat while we can get the same thing that we need from vegetables or fruits.

Actually, since you MUST replenish your diet with supplements, it's obvious you don't get the same thing from eating only vegetables or fruits.

Moreover, no one can argue that for example, the best source of Iron is from meat.
Even if some vegetables contain more Iron per mg than meat, Iron from plants is not as easily digested as from meat.

Even if in your portion of beef hamburger has less Iron than your portion of bowl of beans, you will digest more Iron from the burger, than from your full bowl of beans.


One animal can feed many people. But to feed as many people wheat or veggies you need so much more of a product to fulfill their bodies needs for nutrients.

Therefore, you need so much more space to grow and produce the plant product.

The soil after growing season is very very weakened.
The wheat or the beans or whatever that has grew, took most of the nutrients out of it.

If you sow in the same place again you either must now add fertilizers (which are usually artificial) or you will have a crop will little nutritional value.

Or, you have to let the place grow "wild" for at least one year, to recover from last cultivation. This space is being wasted, unused for at least one year.

But if cows are grazing on the fields, they do not damage soil that much because what they eat they poop back and thus how they return the nutrients to the soil immediately.

Another thing- since fewer animals are needed to feed the same amount of people than plants, less space is being cut out and used for grazing fields.
Growing all kinds of plant food for the same number of people requires much much bigger space. Lots of fields, lots.
That means - forest cut outs, taking meadows away from nature, etc

So, in the greater scheme of things, eating only plants actually take greater toil on the enviroment than meat eating.
It's something to take under consideration when thinking about well being of animals and enviroment.


May I recommend a fantastic book that touches this subject beautifully - A Prodigal Summer by Barbara Kingsolver.


Fuzzy
 
My diet is mainly on vegetables, fruits, grains, low fat dairy products and white meat. I don't eat red meat much because it's generally bad for you. It's good to be eating both sides instead of just one side, that's my opinion.

Humans are born to be omnivores so we eat plant and animals. That's why we have teeth to chew on meat and plants efficently. Some animals don't have the teeth to chew on meat efficently and their bodies are made for herbivores or carnivores.
 
I don't eat red meat much because it's generally bad for you.

That is not correct.
Red meat is gererally good for you because red meat contains a lot of very important proteins and lots of Iron,
but everything in excess is not good for you.

The key to good health is balance and moderation.

Fuzzy
 
Actually, since you MUST replenish your diet with supplements, it's obvious you don't get the same thing from eating only vegetables or fruits.

Moreover, no one can argue that for example, the best source of Iron is from meat.
Even if some vegetables contain more Iron per mg than meat, Iron from plants is not as easily digested as from meat.

Even if in your portion of beef hamburger has less Iron than your portion of bowl of beans, you will digest more Iron from the burger, than from your full bowl of beans.


One animal can feed many people. But to feed as many people wheat or veggies you need so much more of a product to fulfill their bodies needs for nutrients.

Therefore, you need so much more space to grow and produce the plant product.

The soil after growing season is very very weakened.
The wheat or the beans or whatever that has grew, took most of the nutrients out of it.

If you sow in the same place again you either must now add fertilizers (which are usually artificial) or you will have a crop will little nutritional value.

Or, you have to let the place grow "wild" for at least one year, to recover from last cultivation. This space is being wasted, unused for at least one year.

But if cows are grazing on the fields, they do not damage soil that much because what they eat they poop back and thus how they return the nutrients to the soil immediately.

Another thing- since fewer animals are needed to feed the same amount of people than plants, less space is being cut out and used for grazing fields.
Growing all kinds of plant food for the same number of people requires much much bigger space. Lots of fields, lots.
That means - forest cut outs, taking meadows away from nature, etc

So, in the greater scheme of things, eating only plants actually take greater toil on the enviroment than meat eating.
It's something to take under consideration when thinking about well being of animals and enviroment.


May I recommend a fantastic book that touches this subject beautifully - A Prodigal Summer by Barbara Kingsolver.


Fuzzy

Well when I was a meat eater, my stomach always hurt after eat the meats and diary. When I became vegetarian, my stomach stopped hurt and I am very happy vegetarian. There is no need for me to kill poor animals just for my dinner which are quite rude and are not as "surivival", just my opinion.

I only eat the meat if I have to. I believe that we only eat the meat for surivival, not daily dinner.

Also there is no way for me to buy the meat with my own money, plus it make me sick to eat the meat while it give me the pictures of dead cow hanging, chopped chicken head, etc.

Plus producing the vegetables and fruits are much cheaper and easy than producing the meats. All we need to do is put the seed in the soil and let it grow, proof! The plant gave us many varies of things to eat. For meat, we have to have many animals as possible, then expecting them to have the sex and have to be carefully making sure they don't hurt us, then we have to suffer to see yucky blood stuff.

We even can have garden at our own home with no problem. I have 4 tree that are fruit tree and have the potatoes at my backyard and I brought them and make them as my dinner.

My parents have a nice garden which has Zucchini (lot of them!), broccoli, tomato, pea, soy beans, parsley, etc and they are happy with their garden. They gave me the Zucchini while they only cut it off from a plant then eat it!

Pretty piece of cake!

Plus the vegetable and fruits farms keep the earth green :D

So I am happy being vegetarian and won't stop. Thanks for comparing vegetarian and meat eaters, I am still happy being vegetarian.
 
That is not correct.
Red meat is gererally good for you because red meat contains a lot of very important proteins and lots of Iron,
but everything in excess is not good for you.

The key to good health is balance and moderation.

Fuzzy

If ya read carefully....I said I don't eat it much, which is better than never. :-P I eat them occassionally.
 
Sequoias:
I am sure I read it very carefully:


I don't eat red meat much because it's generally bad for you

and I got that you don't eat much of meat, too:

I don't eat red meat much

Puyo Piyo:
Well when I was a meat eater, my stomach always hurt after eat the meats and diary

That doesn't mean meat is bad for everyone, it is just for you.
Besides, perhaps if you stopped eating just dairy maybe you wouldn't have stomach pains anymore just as well (even if you continued to eat meat).

Some people can not eat gluten that is in wheat, does that mean wheat is bad?

No, it's just some people are not 100% healthy, and can not digest this or that well. This is just and individual thing.
Maybe you, without even knowing it, have some slight digestive problem, that's why. who knows. medicine doesn't know everything yet.

Plus producing the vegetables and fruits are much cheaper and easy than producing the meats. All we need to do is put the seed in the soil and let it grow, proof! The plant gave us many varies of things to eat. For meat, we have to have many animals as possible, then expecting them to have the sex and have to be carefully making sure they don't hurt us, then we have to suffer to see yucky blood stuff.

wow :)

Producing vegetables and fruit in your own garden is not the same as producing it on a huge mass scale.

It is relatively easy to produce good crop for one family on small plot,
but not for many many people.
And all that hugely depends on the weather, pests, diseases, and soil quality.

Your parents most likely are able to carefully tend their garden.
If you have commercial farm it's nothing like a small private garden.

I am not sure if you ever researched what it takes to produce just 1 pound of flour...

I am not sure if you are aware that all it takes to wipe out one year crop is bad weather. or a disease, or a pests.

Just yesterday on our TV they said British Columbia rasperry industry lost millions of dollars this year because of a bad weather.
First, it was too cold too long, then it was too hot too long, and then the rain came too late, too much, too long.

The raspeberries are not sweet enough, plump enough, scorched by sun and a lot of them is now not suitable for sale but for preserves only.
Apart from that they're expecting mold now.
(btw- it's hard to grow healthy produce without sprays)

I doubt all the veggies from your parents garden will be enough to supply your entire family with all the nutrients your body needs.
And what when the growing season ends?

If you keep growing crop after crop after crop without at least adding manure (and you need animals for that) - the food is less and less and less nutritious.

that is just scratching the surface of reality of agriculture.

So I am happy being vegetarian and won't stop.

I have nothing against vegetarianism. I think it's wonderful if someone wants to be one.
So you are a vegetarian - that's fine with me.

Just please don't try to tell me it's healthier, easier, cheaper, friendlier etc for the enviroment. Because it is not.


Fuzzy
 
Puyo Piyo:


That doesn't mean meat is bad for everyone, it is just for you.
Besides, perhaps if you stopped eating just dairy maybe you wouldn't have stomach pains anymore just as well (even if you continued to eat meat).

Some people can not eat gluten that is in wheat, does that mean wheat is bad?

No, it's just some people are not 100% healthy, and can not digest this or that well. This is just and individual thing.
Maybe you, without even knowing it, have some slight digestive problem, that's why. who knows. medicine doesn't know everything yet.

Yeah my grandparents is black cherry farmers and it was alot of works, but they are very happy farmers. I wouldn't mind to go help them picking the cherry, sometimes I sneak from their home and go in the orchards to eat the cherries.

You are right, it takes alot of works for the farmers to produce the fruits and vegetables.


wow :)

Producing vegetables and fruit in your own garden is not the same as producing it on a huge mass scale.

It is relatively easy to produce good crop for one family on small plot,
but not for many many people.
And all that hugely depends on the weather, pests, diseases, and soil quality.

Your parents most likely are able to carefully tend their garden.
If you have commercial farm it's nothing like a small private garden.

I am not sure if you ever researched what it takes to produce just 1 pound of flour...

I am not sure if you are aware that all it takes to wipe out one year crop is bad weather. or a disease, or a pests.

Just yesterday on our TV they said British Columbia rasperry industry lost millions of dollars this year because of a bad weather.
First, it was too cold too long, then it was too hot too long, and then the rain came too late, too much, too long.

The raspeberries are not sweet enough, plump enough, scorched by sun and a lot of them is now not suitable for sale but for preserves only.
Apart from that they're expecting mold now.
(btw- it's hard to grow healthy produce without sprays)

I doubt all the veggies from your parents garden will be enough to supply your entire family with all the nutrients your body needs.
And what when the growing season ends?

If you keep growing crop after crop after crop without at least adding manure (and you need animals for that) - the food is less and less and less nutritious.

that is just scratching the surface of reality of agriculture.

Yeah as I talked about my grandparents farm, it's not easy. Obsiviously it's not like the garden that my parents have. Oh just btw I don't live with my parents, I was talking about the fruit trees around my home, and talked about the garden at my parent's home ;) You are right, we can't survive with only the little garden haha! About the seasons, it depends on what kind of fruits and vegetables that will grow. There is seasonal fruit and vegetables around Washington, like the cherries, blackberries, cherries at summer, apple and pumpkins at fall, etc. but very few fruit and vegetables at winter.

I have nothing against vegetarianism. I think it's wonderful if someone wants to be one.
So you are a vegetarian - that's fine with me.

Just please don't try to tell me it's healthier, easier, cheaper, friendlier etc for the enviroment. Because it is not.


Fuzzy

Allright, but sorry I disagree with you that vegetarian is unhealthy, expensive, unfriendly, bad for enviroments. Other than that, I respect you as meat lover ;)
 
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