Tookie the Crips leader is dead....

[Reba]

Reba.....Yes, he killed four people, BUT that was gangland stuff. Itwas not serial killer stuff. If he hadn't been in the whole gangland violence to survive/suceed mode, he probaly never would have killed anyone. WHen I say serial killer, I mean people like Ted Bundy or folks who kill for the heck of it.

It was not a "gangland" killing. The victims were NOT members of a gang.

If those victims were your family would you blow it off so easily? Could you say, "oh, well, at least they weren't killed by a serial killer; no problem"?

 

[Reba]

...it's cheaper having a Death Row convict transfer to 'For-Life' prison with no chance of parole, rather than killing them. ..

You know why? Because of all the appeals processes and the 20-30 years on Death Row before the execution actually takes place. Obviously, if executions were carried out within a couple years of sentencing, the cost would go down.

 

[Reba]

There you go again, making a judgement call.

Right you are. I judge that killing innocent people in cold blood during the commission of a crime is a BAD thing.

 

[Reba]

I see that my point got missed about the nature of repentance. The way I understand it, if one is truly repentant, it means that person understands the gravity of what he/she has done and will accept the punishment for it without a fight...especially if they come to understand what prolonging the battle does to further hurt the people they have wronged. I'm not sure this understanding is very common anymore.

Sometimes God may intervene to help someone who repents in this way by allowing the people wronged to ask that the death sentence be commuted in the case of such a complete good-faith surrender. But in all likelihood, that's probably not going to happen because there is still the debt to be paid to society--physical life for physical life. The way it seems to me is, if one has truly repented and experiences God's forgiveness, then even the death penalty becomes only a temporary pain because the soul of the forgiven will be welcomed into eternal life. This is why although I do support the death penalty because I don't think we can risk having murderers and rapists getting the chance to do it again, I take no joy in executions. I see it as a sad necessity when all else to deter people before they act fails. So I pray that such people will seek and find forgiveness so that their eternal soul is spared.

I don't know this man's heart. I hope he does find eternal peace. But I just do not think that it would be right to give people like this a chance to take more lives--or to encourage and teach others to do it.

I remember that in times of dangerous confrontation, John R. Rice would say (and I am paraphrasing), "Why should I be afraid if you threaten me with Heaven?" If someone has accepted Jesus as Savior, and has confessed, repented, and made right (as much as possible) all his sins, then he shouldn't fear the penalty.

The following is my personal opinion:
I believe that God knows who will accept salvation and who will not. I believe He makes possible every opportunity for those who will accept Him, and He protects their physical lives for as long as it takes to make that decision.

I am NOT saying that God "predestines" only certain people to salvation. I believe salvation is available to every person on the planet. I am just saying that every person who wants to be saved will be saved.

That was my opinion.

 

[C.C.Sinned]

GANG VIOLENCE

Myth: Gang killings in Los Angeles County are the result of drug wars.
Fact: Most gang homicides are not random, nor are they only disputes over drugs or some other crime. The vast majority of violent incidents involving gang members continue to result from fights over turf, status, and revenge.

Myth: Gangs are only an inner city problem.
Fact: Different types of cities (urban, suburban, etc) in Los Angeles County have local street gangs. While a majority of the gang related slayings were in the urban core, in the San Fernando Valley, the murder rate spiked 60% in 2001 because of gang related killings.
Streetgangs.com, 2002

Myth: Los Angeles is the gang capital of the world and will never again be a place to raise children and live a civilized life.
Fact: Over the last several hundred years, a number of cities in the world have been proclaimed the "gang capital". London, England, was first given this title. Just before our civil war, New York was reported to have approximately 30,000 street gang members. At other times, Philadelphia and Chicago were proclaimed gang capitals. All of these cities, with degrees of success, have dealt with the problem and passed the title on to other cities.

Myth: Youth join gangs to sell drugs, commit crime, and make money.
Fact: Youth join gangs for many reasons. However, while gang members commit more types of crime (and more often) than non-gang youth, many gang members are not heavily involved in crime. Most gang members are not drug dealers and most Los Angeles gangs are not organized drug distribution rings.

Myth: Gangs are tightly organized, cohesive units with stable powerful leadership.
Fact: Most gangs are loosely knit, with several members who fill leadership roles, depending on age and situation. Membership fluctuates and gang members have varying degrees of commitment to the gang. Gang cohesiveness is highest when the gang is challenged by other groups or by outsiders.

Myth: Ever since there have been street gangs there have been drive by shootings. Guns don’t kill people; people kill people.
Fact: Shootings by gang members have increased as guns on the streets have proliferated. Drive-by killings are a direct result of the availability of firearms. {{People injure people; guns kill people.}} <- This is BULLSHIT people kill people, Guns are a tool. Without a person to use it a gun can not be fired ..

Myth: Gang violence has increased consistently for the last 15 years.
Fact: This myth is incomplete. Gang violence started to decrease 15 years ago, but in the last seven years, began to increase again in Los Angeles. There were 256 gang homicides in LA City from January to August 2002. This is a 22% increase from the same time period in 2001, and a 47% increase from the 5-year average for those months. LAPD, Citywide Gang Crime Summary, 2002

Myth: Gang violence is purely a law enforcement problem.
Fact: Most law enforcement officials agree that gangs are a community problem that must be dealt with in a variety of approaches implemented by police, schools, community-based organizations, public health professionals and others in an interactive and cooperative approach to gang prevention and intervention.


Other Facts:

* In Los Angeles County, law enforcement officials are aware of more than 1300 street gangs with over 150,000 members. In the City of Los Angeles alone, there are approximately 407 gangs and over 56,000 members.
Los Angeles Almanac, 2002

* Gangs account for approximately 51% of all homicides in Los Angeles County. Of the 1156 homicides in 2001, 587 were gang-related. The majority of all gang homicides are committed with handguns.
Los Angeles County Safe Streets Bureau, 2002

Sources: "Report on the State of Los Angeles Street Gangs", Los Angeles County Interagency Gang Task Force, 1999-2000. Los Angeles Almanac, Gang Populations, 2001

 

[Reba]

You're asking the wrong person. My family has had its share of death by violence. Yet in all that, we have never pushed for the death penalty for those people who have killed members of the family - we have asked for life in prison without parole.

I am very sorry for your family's loss.

Your family did have the right to forgive the killers because you were the victims. The rest of us as individuals don't have that right.

The government has the right and responsibility to carry out the punishments required by law for the protection and orderliness of society.

Remember the 6th Commandment: Thou shalt not kill.

The translation for that commandment is "Thou shalt not murder." God allows killing for self-defense, warfare, and lawfully processed punishment.

God doesn't allow killing for convienence store robberies or gang entertainment.

 

[Bryan]

You adults made me giggle. It just obviously that Health does not know what she/he is reading about. She/he goes all overacted because she/he saw the word 'gang' in it and all of suddenly she/he thinks its an evil man.

 

[C.C.Sinned]

Yes, he killed people but it's not like he was a mass murderer or a child molester! For crying out loud......we're talking about poor black kids who deal drugs to try to surmount poverty. Hey.....he may be guilty,he might be innocent. I'm not judging him. But at least he tried to do work to prevent other kids from falling in the gang trap!

Reba.....Yes, he killed four people, BUT that was gangland stuff. Itwas not serial killer stuff. If he hadn't been in the whole gangland violence to survive/suceed mode, he probaly never would have killed anyone. WHen I say serial killer, I mean people like Ted Bundy or folks who kill for the heck of it.

Joining a gang is dumb no matter what color the skin is. Violence and murder should be dealt with equally. Just because they are poor and black, doesn't make them joining a gang and turning into a murderer, make them any different then other murders.

 

[Angel]

You're asking the wrong person. My family has had its share of death by violence. Yet in all that, we have never pushed for the death penalty for those people who have killed members of the family - we have asked for life in prison without parole.

Remember the 6th Commandment: Thou shalt not kill.

Well said DD, I don't like death penalty at all and I don't think it's right for us to push for death penalty, it like you want the person to be killed and I'm not going to be the one making that choice either....

I'm glad to hear your family are more forgiven, and only seeking life in prison....

 

[Heath]

You adults made me giggle. It just obviously that Health does not know what she/he is reading about. She/he goes all overacted because she/he saw the word 'gang' in it and all of suddenly she/he thinks its an evil man.

I am a guy and what world are you living in? I think you need to see the gruesome pictures of those 4 victims and tell me if that is evil ? Shakes my head and thinks thud is

 

[Bryan]

Tookie may be some "gangster" but that does not mean hes an evil man. From what I have heard, he has been fighting for his rights and the whole blacks rights. I admire for what he has done, but I do not admire of his evil actions. I still should not think you should be glad that someone has died.

 

[C.C.Sinned]

Here is some links about gang violence - (click here and read why gangs suck) (they really suck)

 

[Heath]

CC Sinned and AD readers also see the article and website at: http://www.righteouswarriortemple.org/New Folder/gang.htm

I like this website because it tells it like it is with no b.s. added.

 

[pek1]

The liberals support abortion

Heath, who was in the White House in 1973 when Roe v. Wade was legalized? Who were the ones that said, "Christians should not be in politics because it's dirty?"

GOP.

Take a look at your history, man...hell, that's what it's there for!

 

[pek1]

I am downright angry that you are taking an evil man's side and not taking the right side of the victim's families as it should rightfully be and that is the Christian thing to do

I'm remaining objective about it, as a good journalist should do. What does Christianity have anything to do with this? What would you say if he had repented of his sins years ago and was a Christian now? When he stood before God, his slate is clean, just like yours and mine. That does not say he still has a debt to pay to society, mind you, of course he does. But, "society" doesn't determine who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell, does it, Heath? Not according to the Bible it doesn't.

 

[pek1]

What about the victim's eternal peace? My point is this is that nobody even gives a fraction of a thought towards the victim's families.

Let's put it this way: If those people, individually, knew Christ as their Savior, then they are in Heaven. If Tookie does, too, so is he. That, my cyber friend, is the Grace of God.

If, on the other hand, suppose none of the victims knew Christ as their Savior. The Scripture is clear, Heath, you know this..."...they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20). That means that the victims are in Hell right now. If Tookie didn't know Christ as Savior, either, so is he. Isn't that comforting to know that your own killer is in the same place as you and you're not safe anymore and GRACE is beyond your reach?

 

[Heath]

Heath, who was in the White House in 1973 when Roe v. Wade was legalized? Who were the ones that said, "Christians should not be in politics because it's dirty?"

GOP.

Take a look at your history, man...hell, that's what it's there for!

The angry and sick evil feminists funded the law case and The US President Nixon tried to stop it. Pek 1 you have your history wrong because you are a liberal and it shows. President Richard Nixon, who was running for re-election and was anti-abortion, did not want the decision in Roe v. Wade to be legalized.

 

[pek1]

Don't forget that Yasser Arafat, a dead PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) leader, killed many Jews in Israel. He won a Noble Peace Prize in 1994!

And so has George H.W. Bush and his precious sonny boy in Iraq...fighting for the Queen's oil!

 

[pek1]

The feminists funded the law case and The US President Nixon tried to stop it. Pek 1 you have your history wrong because you are a liberal and it shows. President Richard Nixon, who was running for re-election and was anti-abortion, did not want the decision in Roe v. Wade to be legalized ...

Go back and look, or are you scared about what you'll find? By the way, you're wanted in the Christian forum for a debate...what are you waiting for? I think you're a yellow bellied chicken, afraid to be proven wrong by a woman!

 

[Banjo]

The angry and sick evil feminists funded the law case and The US President Nixon tried to stop it. Pek 1 you have your history wrong because you are a liberal and it shows. President Richard Nixon, who was running for re-election and was anti-abortion, did not want the decision in Roe v. Wade to be legalized.

Don't forget, President Nixon was a crook. Yet you are spewing all sort of bullshit about how 'evil' the liberals are.