Tipping System

[Reba]

I would consider it is a blackmail!!! What if many people can't afford the tip, will their resturant close down because they refused to serve to people like us?

It is not up to the customers to support the Waitress's wages, it is the Resturant Manager's responsible to take care of their staff's wages.

If I can't afford to eat at a restaurant, then I don't go to the restaurant. Eating at a restaurant isn't a life necessity. Paying the tip is part of the restaurant experience.

If you don't like paying tips you can eat at fast food restaurants or get take out food. No one is forced to go to a nice restaurant.

Suppose tomorrow all restuarant owners decided to stop the tip system and increase the pay of the servers. Fine. They will also increase the prices of all their meals. So, you, the diner, end up paying much more for your meal, even without a tip. Some people will still not be able to afford going to the restaurant.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I went to deaf club at guesthouse/resturant last Saturday. Of course I questioned my friend, his family own guesthouse/resturant where we meet every month. He gave me right that service charge and tipping are not the same thing. Charge service means is to add % for utiltiy used, foods, employee´s wage, and go on.... tip is total different... It´s up to us to tip or not...

Reba,

My other friends who went to America last summer for 3 weeks holiday. They said that the prices of resturant is almost same as here in Germany. The waitress is very friendly to them... later they want to pay the bill... the waitress turn into different person when they asked her to keep the change. My friends were like and wonder what have they done anything wrong to upset her and thought $1 is good tip or what? They can´t stand waitress and waiter´s offence remark. They can´t stand to go resturant so they went to fast resturant, they are friendly to them... I told them that $1 is not enough to them because they expect 15% to 20% tip of meal cost, that´s where I learn from American forum... They were like WHAT.. because travel brochure didn´t say anything how many % waitress/waiter expect from customers. I´m not surprised after read Opal´s post because Europeans said the same thing.

I would never work as waitress for that $2.50 per hour... No thank! It make me stress to try soooo hard to get tips from customers...... It make me stress to think in my mind "hope to get better tips today"... then again on next day... No way... I prefer to enjoy what I am and friendly to customer as usual... little tip is great appreicate... and thank them... It sound "flattery" to me if I try be nice to customers for their tips... I rather stay what I am instead of play flattery to get tips from them.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

If I can't afford to eat at a restaurant, then I don't go to the restaurant. Eating at a restaurant isn't a life necessity. Paying the tip is part of the restaurant experience.

If you don't like paying tips you can eat at fast food restaurants or get take out food. No one is forced to go to a nice restaurant.

Suppose tomorrow all restuarant owners decided to stop the tip system and increase the pay of the servers. Fine. They will also increase the prices of all their meals. So, you, the diner, end up paying much more for your meal, even without a tip. Some people will still not be able to afford going to the restaurant.

Well waitress/waiter do not need complaint because they choose to work as waitress/waiter in first place... They must have aware that they have to work for tips... Example 5 waiters in one resturant - they want tips from customers... they "fight" to get tips from customers or what? I mean service to customers... it is like "contest"... ? No good... For me stress... no thank. I rather to be treat equal as my co-worker - decent wages... it´s our rights.

 

[Reba]

Well waitress/waiter do not need complaint because they choose to work as waitress/waiter in first place... They must have aware that they have to work for tips... Example 5 waiters in one resturant - they want tips from customers... they "fight" to get tips from customers or what? I mean service to customers... it is like "contest"... ? No good... For me stress... no thank. I rather to be treat equal as my co-worker - decent wages... it´s our rights.

I don't understand what you mean they "fight" to get tips. It's not a competition. Each server is assigned to take care of certain tables or sections. Each server takes care of just his/her own customers. They don't fight each other over tips.

 

[Kuifje75]

Liebling, I think you are oversimplifing everything. Some waiters actually enjoy their jobs so they don't mind working for tips. Some of them love to "socialise" and be around people, serving them with a friendly attitude. They are like natural-born waiters. Their positive attitude shows in their service, and it usually earns them great tips. If they did not want to be waiters, then they can always seek employment elsewhere.

Like Reba said, there is no competition for tables. Waiters are assigned to certain tables, and hosts bring the customers to their tables.

It's not blackmailing in my opinion. I agree with Reba, if you can't afford to tip in a restaurant, then don't go at all. I have given 20$ to 30$ tips to waiters for wonderful services in an expensive restaurant (with bill being about 100$), but it pays for a wonderful dinner in a great atmosphere, with wonderful people serving me. I don't want slaves serving me for cheap tips. If I didnt want to pay so much tip, I can always go to Arby's or Wendy's where workers are still paid with slave wages anyhow (minimum wage nationalwide is about 5.25$) I call it slave wage because they have to do everything, frying the fries, nuking the burgers and filling drink up for you, whereas a waiter in a restaurant just brings the order to a cook and brings the food and drink to you.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Liebling, I think you are oversimplifing everything.

oversimplifing everything?

Everything?

What I say is a fact because my friends who visited America last August 2006, told me themselves last saturday when they saw me questioned a friend because his family own guesthouse/resturant where we meet once a month.

I has no reason to make the stories up.

Some waiters actually enjoy their jobs so they don't mind working for tips. Some of them love to "socialise" and be around people, serving them with a friendly attitude.

Of course it's waiter's job to be friendly to customers.

They have no reason to turn into different persons when they recieved unsatisfy tips from their customers. To my eyes, they are flattery until they get unsafisty tips then turn into different person... satisfy tip then stay friendly and will serve them in the future.

They are like natural-born waiters. Their positive attitude shows in their service, and it usually earns them great tips. If they did not want to be waiters, then they can always seek employment elsewhere.

Yes I aware it... but I only said that they has no reason to be offensive if they receive unsatisfy tips from their customers.

Like Reba said, there is no competition for tables. Waiters are assigned to certain tables, and hosts bring the customers to their tables.

I mean, if a waiter (A) 's job task to serve at certain tables and other waiter (B) do with other tables in one resturant... Waiter (A) & (B) both treat their customers good but serve in different tables. Waiter (A) receive better tips than Waiter (B) which they work hard. It's unfair... It look like "contest"... I do not mean that they make contest but look like "contest" who gets better tips.

It's not blackmailing in my opinion.

Because you said that waiter will not serve us in the future if they receive unsatisfy tips from us. It was like wow to me...Yes I learn and aware about America's culture from this thread here before I prepare something.

I agree with Reba, if you can't afford to tip in a restaurant, then don't go at all. I have given 20$ to 30$ tips to waiters for wonderful services in an expensive restaurant (with bill being about 100$), but it pays for a wonderful dinner in a great atmosphere, with wonderful people serving me. I don't want slaves serving me for cheap tips. If I didnt want to pay so much tip, I can always go to Arby's or Wendy's where workers are still paid with slave wages anyhow (minimum wage nationalwide is about 5.25$) I call it slave wage because they have to do everything, frying the fries, nuking the burgers and filling drink up for you, whereas a waiter in a restaurant just brings the order to a cook and brings the food and drink to you.

To me, if you complaint about unsatisfy tips then the job is not right for you. If you like to be waiter and enjoy to be friendly to customers no matter what, then is right job for you. If I want to work as waitress then I will aware that the tips is a volunaritly. (I know it's "volunarity" in America). It's better than no $. Nobody complaint about slave wage because they aware it in first place and want to work to earn for their living. Like what sillycat said that she tipped waitress $1 because it's better than zero...

Many people can't afford to give generous tips like you. Remember every person is different. I think $5 is good and limit tip. I can understand that people like to go fancy resturant and celebrate something speical but waiter has no reason to be offensive if they recieve unsatisfy tips. Give tip is better than zero. I would tip $5 to waiter when I'm in America for a vacation no matter what... If they are not satisfy with my tip then I won't visit same resturant anymore where they made offensive impression.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I don't understand what you mean they "fight" to get tips. It's not a competition. Each server is assigned to take care of certain tables or sections. Each server takes care of just his/her own customers. They don't fight each other over tips.

I mean they would feel hurt or jealous if they receive different amounts, they received from customers a day. See my response post to K75. I remember from saw the US movie... 2 ladies work as waitresses in same resturant... they share a flat... She give sad impression to her friend who gets better tips than her...

 

[GalaxyAngel]

*Update*

Hoo Hoo you guys need time out... no need fighting each together debate!
About the Resturtant... mostly ALL must have served same all resturant!
FYI...

I'm working at Swiss Chalet and learned it lot about this tippers

Tippers goes to waitress 40% and cooking 30% and dishwasher 30% split sharing.. Reason why Cooking and Dishwasher doesn't get tip from customer..
So Waitress will get tippers from customers..

Like you everyone are blind... determinded that waiteress are get tippers only.. You're wrong idea about it..

 

[Cheri]

I would consider it is a blackmail!!! What if many people can't afford the tip, will their resturant close down because they refused to serve to people like us?

It is not up to the customers to support the Waitress's wages, it is the Resturant Manager's responsible to take care of their staff's wages.


It is American's systems, as I don't like this idea.

We are not supporting waitress wages, we're tipping for the good service that the waitress had provide for us while we eating in. You think the all waitresses keep the tips? Not all the time, some places where they have waitness spilting the tips with the cook and the bus people.

If some people cannot afford tipping then don't go to any restaurants, Why should they be your slave and serve you? If you don't want to tip anyone then go to fast-food restaurants where you can serve yourself, by getting your own drink, taking your own trash to the trash bin, clean up after yourself.

 

[ScubaladyTx]

We are not supporting waitress wages, we're tipping for the good service that the waitress had provide for us while we eating in. You think the all waitresses keep the tips? Not all the time, some places where they have waitness spilting the tips with the cook and the bus people.

If some people cannot afford tipping then don't go to any restaurants, Why should they be your slave and serve you? If you don't want to tip anyone then go to fast-food restaurants where you can serve yourself, by getting your own drink, taking your own trash to the trash bin, clean up after yourself.

Second that....


M-

 

[Liebling:-)))]

*Update*

Hoo Hoo you guys need time out... no need fighting each together debate!
About the Resturtant... mostly ALL must have served same all resturant!
FYI...

I'm working at Swiss Chalet and learned it lot about this tippers

Tippers goes to waitress 40% and cooking 30% and dishwasher 30% split sharing.. Reason why Cooking and Dishwasher doesn't get tip from customer..
So Waitress will get tippers from customers..

Like you everyone are blind... determinded that waiteress are get tippers only.. You're wrong idea about it..

Maybe Canada and America system is different?

Do you mean that waiter/waitress are not work on tip for themselves but share % of tips for cookers and diswashers? Right? If yes, I feel bad for waiter & waitress. It´s fine if they are happy that way what they are.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

You think the all waitresses keep the tips? Not all the time, some places where they have waitness spilting the tips with the cook and the bus people.

If it´s true, then I feel bad for them since I learn from this thread here that they have low wages. I didn´t know until you mentioned this today for a first time here that they didn´t work to keep tips for themselves but share tips with co-workers. The resturant owner suppose to pay their decent wages, not rely waiter/waitress´s tips. The waiter/waitress work for their boss and make their boss profit....

Sorry I don´t agree on this.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Tip or Service Charge? Part II

After my previous post on this subject, I received the following email from Gary Reed. He makes some really good points about the difference between a tip and a service charge. Thanks Gary
--------------------------------------------------
Boy, isn't that the question? Is a tip a service charge? That's what many restaurants want us to believe, isn't it?
What does replacing voluntary tips with a service charges actually mean?

Lets start off by understanding that tips and service charges are both defined under federal law. Did you know that federal regulations state that a tip is to be distinguished from a payment of a charge, if any, made for the service? Do you know why? You see it would be fraud if a customer gave a tip to an employee and the business owner kept it for himself or controlled that money to his own benefit. Service charges are not tips. Service charges may be kept by the business owner. Did you know that?

Here is a link to the law which explain that service charges are the property of the employer.

29CFR531.531.55 - Examples of amounts not received as tips.

You see it clearly says that service charges are amounts received from customers that are the employer's
property, not the employees, such amounts do not constitute tip income to the employee.

Now that we understand what service charges are, let's understand what tips are.

Here's a couple of link which explain clearly what tips are.
29CFR531.531.52 - General characteristics of ``tips.''
DOL WHD: Fact Sheet #15: Tipped Employees Under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)
As you may note in the first link A tip is a sum presented by a customer as a gift or gratuity in recognition of some service performed for him. It is to be distinguished from payment of a charge, if any, made for the service. Whether a tip is to be given, and its amount, are matters determined solely by the customer, and generally he has the right to determine who shall be the recipient of his gratuity.

Now on to the second link which clearly explains; Retention of Tips: The law forbids any arrangement between the employer and the tipped employee whereby any part of the tip received becomes the property of the employer. A tip is the sole property of the tipped employee.

So now lets get back to the question at hand. Is a tip the same as a service charge?
NO

Now let's move on to a few more pertinent and revealing questions.

1. Why are restaurants replacing a tip with a service charge?

2. What does replacing voluntary tips with a service charges actually mean?

3. Is it legal?

1. Isn't it clear when one has an understanding of what tips and service charges actually are that the reason restaurants want to replace tips with service charges is so customers will give the business money that they used to give the employees. Remember tips are the sole property of the tipped employee, that means that moneys received as tips can't be used by the business. On the other hand, moneys received as service charges are the business's property and as such the business can do what ever they want to do with those moneys according to federal law.

2. Replacing tips with service charges actually means that customers will be giving the business money instead of the employees. Remember, under federal law service charges are the business property not tip income for the employees. What will actually happen is that the money that used to be given to the employees will become by law the employer's property. What this means to workers is that the tips that they used to receive from customers and which were protected by federal laws as their sole property will become property of their employer. What this also means is that a customer's right to determine whether a tip is given, the amount and who will be the recipient of his tips will be replaced by an automatic charge which denies customers their right to determine such matters and which results in the business fraudulently reaping the financial rewards of the tip that would have gone to an employee of the customer's choosing.

Why do I state that it is fraudulent? Most customers who pay these service charges think they are the same thing as a tip. In fact, many restaurants openly suggest that the service charge is in lieu of a tip. What is in lieu. Alternately, alternatively, by choice, by preference, first, in lieu, in preference, instead. Business want customers to instead of tipping their employees to give the business additional income.

3. Is it legal.
I do not think so. Customers are being led to believe that a service charge may be paid in place of a tip, however no distinction is being made that the service charge is not the same as a tip. Many customers are paying these service charges with a misguided impression that a service charge is the same as a tip when clearly there are distinct differences. Customers, in fact, are paying service charges that they think are money intended as tips not knowing that the money is legally the business's. I truly believe such practices are fraud on the consumer and not only fraud but intentional fraud. Businesses have every right and ability to charge more for their services if additional income is needed. Instead of charging more for their services many businesses are intentionally substituting service charges for tips in an effort to defraud money out of the public.

You can write whatever you want about service charges, but I am telling you right now they are nothing but fraud when they are accessed in lieu of a tip without distinguishing that they are not actually a tip.

Businesses have been attempting to steal the tipped employee's tips for decades. The service charge is just another blatant attempt.

Sincerely,
Gary Reed and millions of tipped employees nationwide

Division of Labour: Tip or Service Charge? Part II

It´s interesting to read cons and pros discussion.

Waiter Rant
waiterrant.net » Tipped Off

Tipping
rc3.org: Tipping

Tips on tipping for travelers
http://www.alldeaf.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=654818

Are we moving away from tipping? (difference service charge, tax, tipping, etc.)
Marginal Revolution: Are we moving away from tipping?

 

[Reba]

If it´s true, then I feel bad for them since I learn from this thread here that they have low wages.

You really don't need to feel sorry for them. Most waiters and waitresses that I know or have listened to, enjoy their work and wages. Especially college students, prefer working at restaurants because the hours fit very well into their school schedules. They make a lot of money for just working part time. Some of them even get to network with the customers for future career opportunities after graduation.

If you compare what some waiters earn for a 6-hour work day with what I earn in 6 hours of interpreting work, we earn about the same, and they didn't even need a college degree to get their job.

The resturant owner suppose to pay their decent wages, not rely waiter/waitress´s tips. The waiter/waitress work for their boss and make their boss profit....

That's the whole point of capitalism and the free market. Restaurant owners don't open restaurants in order to provide jobs for people. That is one result, but it's not the reason. The reason someone opens a cafe, a bar, a coffee shop, an elegant restaurant, or a greasy spoon is make a profit. The owner pays whatever is necessary to get a staff that satisifies the needs of his customers. If he doesn't pay enough to hire good quality staff, then the customers won't be satisfied and he'll lose business. If the staff is satisfied, and the customers are satisfied, and the owner makes a profit, then all is well. If someone isn't satisified, then they move on.

Also, working for tips is similar to working for a commission. Many sales people work for small (or no) salary, and earn just the commissions for the sales. It's called motivation.

The basic principle is, the better and/or harder someone works, the more that person earns.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

You really don't need to feel sorry for them. Most waiters and waitresses that I know or have listened to, enjoy their work and wages. Especially college students, prefer working at restaurants because the hours fit very well into their school schedules. They make a lot of money for just working part time. Some of them even get to network with the customers for future career opportunities after graduation.

If you compare what some waiters earn for a 6-hour work day with what I earn in 6 hours of interpreting work, we earn about the same, and they didn't even need a college degree to get their job.

Yes your post make sense to me.

Yes, like what I say in previous post if they are happy what they are that´s great. Íts mainly important that they enjoy their job.

Some posts saying that waiter/waitress get low wages.

That's the whole point of capitalism and the free market. Restaurant owners don't open restaurants in order to provide jobs for people. That is one result, but it's not the reason. The reason someone opens a cafe, a bar, a coffee shop, an elegant restaurant, or a greasy spoon is make a profit. The owner pays whatever is necessary to get a staff that satisifies the needs of his customers. If he doesn't pay enough to hire good quality staff, then the customers won't be satisfied and he'll lose business. If the staff is satisfied, and the customers are satisfied, and the owner makes a profit, then all is well. If someone isn't satisified, then they move on.

Also, working for tips is similar to working for a commission. Many sales people work for small (or no) salary, and earn just the commissions for the sales. It's called motivation.

The basic principle is, the better and/or harder someone works, the more that person earns.

I can see that there´re very different between Europe and America.

Anyone who open their business including resturants, cafe, etc... and look the people to work for them... They hire and pay people to work for them. To them , this is a job. The boss get the profit from customers to pay their employees, foods, etc...

It´s owner´s job to tell their employees to treat their customers as King and Queen. Some Europeans are foods picky. It must have good foods and drink in any resturants with good reputation. They won´t pay if there´re bad foods. It´s owner responsible to take care of and keep their customer happy... that´s how waiter and waitress do the job for their boss to take care of customers. They fresh to satisfy us and then get ice cream or drink gratis as apology from the owner.

 

[Kuifje75]

oversimplifing everything?

Everything?

What I say is a fact because my friends who visited America last August 2006, told me themselves last saturday when they saw me questioned a friend because his family own guesthouse/resturant where we meet once a month.

I has no reason to make the stories up.

Did I say you were making stories up? No, I didn't.

To translate it in German:
oversimplify = grob vereinfachen

What I am saying is that you are making things too simple, seeing it black and white when trying to compare apples to orange. There is no either better system. I am tired of your attitude thinking that Germany is so much better than the US, and exclaiming that the American system is no good. Tipping has worked just fine for many years in the US, and just leave it alone.

As for waiters who has an attitude change, it is not the only American thing. I experienced it even when I was in Norway. When I wanted my money back, a Norwegian woman threw a fit at me, when I thought Norwegians did not tip. So it is not a solo American thing.

 

[Cheri]

Liebling, I think you are oversimplifing everything. Some waiters actually enjoy their jobs so they don't mind working for tips. Some of them love to "socialise" and be around people, serving them with a friendly attitude. They are like natural-born waiters. Their positive attitude shows in their service, and it usually earns them great tips. If they did not want to be waiters, then they can always seek employment elsewhere.

Like Reba said, there is no competition for tables. Waiters are assigned to certain tables, and hosts bring the customers to their tables.

It's not blackmailing in my opinion. I agree with Reba, if you can't afford to tip in a restaurant, then don't go at all. I have given 20$ to 30$ tips to waiters for wonderful services in an expensive restaurant (with bill being about 100$), but it pays for a wonderful dinner in a great atmosphere, with wonderful people serving me. I don't want slaves serving me for cheap tips. If I didnt want to pay so much tip, I can always go to Arby's or Wendy's where workers are still paid with slave wages anyhow (minimum wage nationalwide is about 5.25$) I call it slave wage because they have to do everything, frying the fries, nuking the burgers and filling drink up for you, whereas a waiter in a restaurant just brings the order to a cook and brings the food and drink to you.

That's right, My opinion on tipping is exact the same as you. And if I tipped a waitress at Out-back steak house $20.00, That waitress would rememember me the next time I go there, and that same waitress will give me much a better service, because she would want that big tip again. Waitress and Waiter don't forget faces, so if someone's a lousy tipper, they would remember that the next time they see that person again.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Did I say you were making stories up? No, I didn't.

To translate it in German:
oversimplify = grob vereinfachen

What I am saying is that you are making things too simple, seeing it black and white when trying to compare apples to orange. There is no either better system. I am tired of your attitude thinking that Germany is so much better than the US, and exclaiming that the American system is no good. Tipping has worked just fine for many years in the US, and just leave it alone.

As for waiters who has an attitude change, it is not the only American thing. I experienced it even when I was in Norway. When I wanted my money back, a Norwegian woman threw a fit at me, when I thought Norwegians did not tip. So it is not a solo American thing.

Oversimplify = distort or falsified something.

Please don't take my post personal because I disagree American tipping system.

No, it's no comparision with apples and orange or see black and white. Its about tipping system in different countries where it relate in this thread here. The reason, I created the thread here because I am interesting to find out why and learn about tipping system/service charge in different countries.

Is it wrong to share you all about tipping vs service charge in my country and disagree with American tipping system? Is it wrong to open what I think of American tipping system? I see no problem if you disagree with Europe or oversea system over service charge or tell me what you think of service charge.

Yes, I aware that our countries are not prefect but it's tipping system, I'm referring to because it relate in my thread. Is it wrong to disagree American tipping system because I am for "including service charge" in many europe countries?

As what you said about Norway is your experience as the same as I had an experience with europe and oversea countries. Is it wrong to share you all about my experience of visit to europe countries? Do I say anything against your experience there in Norway or what? I didn't say anything about Norway because I don't have any experience there but you.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Is it wrong when I suggest that I would tip $5 instead of $20 to waiter because I think $20 is too much? It's my decision to tip what I can if I'm in America. I do not against your decision because I know each person is different...

 

[webexplorer]

Here is your tip card for free:

My card is a little bit worn out, but it is still use for the tips. This is American tip for the waitress/waiter. (Waitress = woman / Waiter = man)

15% - if you think that your waitress/waiter is a little fair or rarely show up your service.

20 % - if you think that yours is good service who often come to you and smile at you.

5 % or none - if the waitress is crabby or rude to you. This is very rare...

Let's say that you like your service, you could pay 20 percent for the tip. Your food price would be 12 dollar so you add it for the tip would be $2.40 . Total is $14.40 . That's easy.