Thoughts of a Deaf Child

Very true, I plead guilty to that. (Sorry about any misspelling.)

I don't mind disagreeing, but what I do hate is a lyer like SexyPiggy.

Read her posts again, (not just here) and you will see that it's filled with lies about me and my daughter. You have read my posts long enough to know that they are lies....

So that's why I react like that...

Ahhh...see what I mean about reactions being based on the past? It makes reactions that seem out of proportion much more understandable, doesn't it? And understanding increases tolerance.

I am very impressed with your willingness to reasonably discuss differences in opinions and viewpoints. I know that I am more inclined to be objective and acceed to the validity of the points, even if they are opposite of mine, when the issues are discussed in this way. After all, the purpose here is to discuss issues and situations, not to pass judgement on the character of an individual. I certainly hope things continue in this way, cloggy. I enjoy debating with you when things do not turn ugly and hateful, and will be the first to admit that there is something I can learn from everyone.
 
Ahhh...see what I mean about reactions being based on the past? It makes reactions that seem out of proportion much more understandable, doesn't it? And understanding increases tolerance.

I am very impressed with your willingness to reasonably discuss differences in opinions and viewpoints. I know that I am more inclined to be objective and acceed to the validity of the points, even if they are opposite of mine, when the issues are discussed in this way. After all, the purpose here is to discuss issues and situations, not to pass judgement on the character of an individual. I certainly hope things continue in this way, cloggy. I enjoy debating with you when things do not turn ugly and hateful, and will be the first to admit that there is something I can learn from everyone.
Agree....
Let's have dinner.
 
Ahhh...see what I mean about reactions being based on the past? It makes reactions that seem out of proportion much more understandable, doesn't it? And understanding increases tolerance.

I am very impressed with your willingness to reasonably discuss differences in opinions and viewpoints. I know that I am more inclined to be objective and acceed to the validity of the points, even if they are opposite of mine, when the issues are discussed in this way. After all, the purpose here is to discuss issues and situations, not to pass judgement on the character of an individual. I certainly hope things continue in this way, cloggy. I enjoy debating with you when things do not turn ugly and hateful, and will be the first to admit that there is something I can learn from everyone.

I agree..I dont want to continue with insults with those who have different opinions than I do so I agree about starting new! :)
 
The poem is touching but I don't see it in reality. That's not to say it doesn't happen but from my perspective its not the norm. I know many parents of deaf kids and they are all involved with their children including learning to communicate with them by any means necessary. In some cases sign is the only means and while at times its a struggle, they still step up and do what is necessary. I only hope that in today's world there are not that many parents with the mentality of the parents in the poem. In fact, I have yet to meet a parent of a deaf child that isolates them and treats them that way and doesn't learn to communicate with them. If I did I would most likely end up in trouble.

I can honestly say I don't know how many parents you have been around, but the fact that you've even met those parents of deaf children shows they are at least somewhat involved with their Deaf children, which shows a bias in itself.

I also want to say, before I complain about them, that I do realize it is difficult for parents to learn sign, and becomes a million times harder when they've been brainwashed with this "Speech good, Sign bad" mentality. If you ask the general population if they had a deaf child if they would learn sign language, a LARGE majority say YES! But then they don't...is it possible Deaf children are just born to the hearing people who won't learn sign- I doubt it.

ALL of that said, they can learn it, and CAN use it. I am around mostly Deaf college students...theoretically these are the children who have, for the most part, had the most involved parents. These deaf people are all considered highly successful, simply by virtue of the face that they are in college. The % of parents that sign among these deaf people is much higher than the deaf community in general (surprise, surprise). But, even when they sign what does "sign" really mean?

Even in this group, many of the deaf people I've met have parents who don't sign. I've only met a few deaf people who actually have hearing parents that "sign" in some form or another. I've met parents of kids who grew up oral and now have learned sign, parents who raised their kids with the TC approach, and parents who had their children educated in an ASL environment. Some of the parents had one deaf child, some had multiple deaf children. Many of the parents are considered statistically to "sign well" and to "fluent communicate with their deaf children"
HOWEVER, just because they can sign doesn't always mean they do. Nearly all of the parents I've met signed when talking directly to their deaf child, or at least mouthed and gestured to the point their child understood. BUT, with ALL of them, the second they looked at another (hearing) person and started a conversation, or the deaf person would look away for a split second and seem to not be totally interested in the conversation, the signing stopped. It was "I'll do it if I have to" mentality. I, as a hearing friend of these deaf people, got really stuck in some weird situations. The parents would look at me, and if they knew/found out I was hearing, immediately spoke and didn't sign, in spite of me signing back to them, and in spite of their deaf child being RIGHT in front of them. I have avoided telling parents of deaf children I'm hearing because of their reaction, their tendency to speak and not sign.
I am sure there are parents of deaf children out there who don't do this, but many more who do...at that point, what do you think of the hearing parents? do they fluent communicate with their deaf child? How many parents out there really totally include their children in conversations? ... I wonder
 
I know. This stuff you two are doing is so juvie.

Again with the judgment. Once again, it would be wise for you to have all of the facts prior to labeling. It would appear that you have a tendency to jump the gun, and make comment on that which did not involve you.
 
I can honestly say I don't know how many parents you have been around, but the fact that you've even met those parents of deaf children shows they are at least somewhat involved with their Deaf children, which shows a bias in itself.

I also want to say, before I complain about them, that I do realize it is difficult for parents to learn sign, and becomes a million times harder when they've been brainwashed with this "Speech good, Sign bad" mentality. If you ask the general population if they had a deaf child if they would learn sign language, a LARGE majority say YES! But then they don't...is it possible Deaf children are just born to the hearing people who won't learn sign- I doubt it.

ALL of that said, they can learn it, and CAN use it. I am around mostly Deaf college students...theoretically these are the children who have, for the most part, had the most involved parents. These deaf people are all considered highly successful, simply by virtue of the face that they are in college. The % of parents that sign among these deaf people is much higher than the deaf community in general (surprise, surprise). But, even when they sign what does "sign" really mean?

Even in this group, many of the deaf people I've met have parents who don't sign. I've only met a few deaf people who actually have hearing parents that "sign" in some form or another. I've met parents of kids who grew up oral and now have learned sign, parents who raised their kids with the TC approach, and parents who had their children educated in an ASL environment. Some of the parents had one deaf child, some had multiple deaf children. Many of the parents are considered statistically to "sign well" and to "fluent communicate with their deaf children"
HOWEVER, just because they can sign doesn't always mean they do. Nearly all of the parents I've met signed when talking directly to their deaf child, or at least mouthed and gestured to the point their child understood. BUT, with ALL of them, the second they looked at another (hearing) person and started a conversation, or the deaf person would look away for a split second and seem to not be totally interested in the conversation, the signing stopped. It was "I'll do it if I have to" mentality. I, as a hearing friend of these deaf people, got really stuck in some weird situations. The parents would look at me, and if they knew/found out I was hearing, immediately spoke and didn't sign, in spite of me signing back to them, and in spite of their deaf child being RIGHT in front of them. I have avoided telling parents of deaf children I'm hearing because of their reaction, their tendency to speak and not sign.
I am sure there are parents of deaf children out there who don't do this, but many more who do...at that point, what do you think of the hearing parents? do they fluent communicate with their deaf child? How many parents out there really totally include their children in conversations? ... I wonder


That's why my brother and I are not really comfortable going to our family gatherings. Our family members dont really go out of their way to include us in their conversations. Growing up, it was always my brother and I chatting among ourselves while our family catch up with each other. Most of the time they would say Hi how are u...that's it.

My mom really tries to include us in all conversations even though she doesnt know signs. It would have been awesome if she had learned..she is trying to now but problem is I am 3,000 miles away from her. My brother is so busy with his life now that he sees her maybe a few times a month. However, I do appreciate the effort. :)
 
I can honestly say I don't know how many parents you have been around, but the fact that you've even met those parents of deaf children shows they are at least somewhat involved with their Deaf children, which shows a bias in itself.

I also want to say, before I complain about them, that I do realize it is difficult for parents to learn sign, and becomes a million times harder when they've been brainwashed with this "Speech good, Sign bad" mentality. If you ask the general population if they had a deaf child if they would learn sign language, a LARGE majority say YES! But then they don't...is it possible Deaf children are just born to the hearing people who won't learn sign- I doubt it.

ALL of that said, they can learn it, and CAN use it. I am around mostly Deaf college students...theoretically these are the children who have, for the most part, had the most involved parents. These deaf people are all considered highly successful, simply by virtue of the face that they are in college. The % of parents that sign among these deaf people is much higher than the deaf community in general (surprise, surprise). But, even when they sign what does "sign" really mean?

Even in this group, many of the deaf people I've met have parents who don't sign. I've only met a few deaf people who actually have hearing parents that "sign" in some form or another. I've met parents of kids who grew up oral and now have learned sign, parents who raised their kids with the TC approach, and parents who had their children educated in an ASL environment. Some of the parents had one deaf child, some had multiple deaf children. Many of the parents are considered statistically to "sign well" and to "fluent communicate with their deaf children"
HOWEVER, just because they can sign doesn't always mean they do. Nearly all of the parents I've met signed when talking directly to their deaf child, or at least mouthed and gestured to the point their child understood. BUT, with ALL of them, the second they looked at another (hearing) person and started a conversation, or the deaf person would look away for a split second and seem to not be totally interested in the conversation, the signing stopped. It was "I'll do it if I have to" mentality. I, as a hearing friend of these deaf people, got really stuck in some weird situations. The parents would look at me, and if they knew/found out I was hearing, immediately spoke and didn't sign, in spite of me signing back to them, and in spite of their deaf child being RIGHT in front of them. I have avoided telling parents of deaf children I'm hearing because of their reaction, their tendency to speak and not sign.
I am sure there are parents of deaf children out there who don't do this, but many more who do...at that point, what do you think of the hearing parents? do they fluent communicate with their deaf child? How many parents out there really totally include their children in conversations? ... I wonder
Clearly a complicated issue with all of the different methods and which ones are available in your school district etc etc. It's not easy for me or my wife. My child sometimes just looks the other way when I try to sign to him and then he gets mad if I keep tapping him on the shoulder or stomping my foot on the floor to get his attention. Many times I walk away frustrated. ITS NOT EASY!!!. What makes it more difficult is when I sign to my child and he doesn't understand the sign or the word for that matter.

I don't know what I would do in the event we are both proficient in signing and I was speaking to another hearing person. I would imagine I would continue to sign if my child was engaged but I doubt I would continue if he walked or turned away. What would be the point? Especially if the other hearing person didn't understand sign.
 
Originally Posted by jillio
Ahhh...see what I mean about reactions being based on the past? It makes reactions that seem out of proportion much more understandable, doesn't it? And understanding increases tolerance.

I am very impressed with your willingness to reasonably discuss differences in opinions and viewpoints. I know that I am more inclined to be objective and acceed to the validity of the points, even if they are opposite of mine, when the issues are discussed in this way. After all, the purpose here is to discuss issues and situations, not to pass judgement on the character of an individual. I certainly hope things continue in this way, cloggy. I enjoy debating with you when things do not turn ugly and hateful, and will be the first to admit that there is something I can learn from everyone

Agree....
Let's have dinner.

I Knew it... you guys do like each other. Watch it Jillio.. This Cloggy is a smooth operator. :giggle:
 
Clearly a complicated issue with all of the different methods and which ones are available in your school district etc etc. It's not easy for me or my wife. My child sometimes just looks the other way when I try to sign to him and then he gets mad if I keep tapping him on the shoulder or stomping my foot on the floor to get his attention. Many times I walk away frustrated. ITS NOT EASY!!!. What makes it more difficult is when I sign to my child and he doesn't understand the sign or the word for that matter.

I don't know what I would do in the event we are both proficient in signing and I was speaking to another hearing person. I would imagine I would continue to sign if my child was engaged but I doubt I would continue if he walked or turned away. What would be the point? Especially if the other hearing person didn't understand sign.

How old is your son?

My son doesnt always look at me when I sign..same with my 7 year old students. Children dont have long attention spans. That's why I move into their field of vision and start signing...with my son, he is a baby so it is normal but with my older students, I tell them that they need to pay attention but I understand that I cant expect them to stare at me for too long because all of us need a break for our eyes.

If your child walked away and goes into another room then no need to sign but if he turned away or still in the room, he could be watching and you may be unaware while chatting with the hearing person so it does make a difference.
 
Agree....
Let's have dinner.

How old is your son?

My son doesnt always look at me when I sign..same with my 7 year old students. Children dont have long attention spans. That's why I move into their field of vision and start signing...with my son, he is a baby so it is normal but with my older students, I tell them that they need to pay attention but I understand that I cant expect them to stare at me for too long because all of us need a break for our eyes.

If your child walked away and goes into another room then no need to sign but if he turned away or still in the room, he could be watching and you may be unaware while chatting with the hearing person so it does make a difference.
He's 11. I do move into his field of vision only to have him turn away again. Frustrating!!
 
He's 11. I do move into his field of vision only to have him turn away again. Frustrating!!

Hmmmm...so does he prefer spoken language? Maybe he is showing signs of a language preference? Or maybe "Daddy" is not cool anymore. :giggle:

Usually at that age, they should have longer attention spans ..do u think it is something else? Does he do that at school too?

I can imagine it would be frustrating. I cant say I dont know what it is like cuz my daughter is 11 and she knows she needs to look at me when I am signing. When she was younger around 7 and young, she always turned away from me but as she got older, she is improving. Also, when she was born I didnt know sign language so I would use spoken language with her so she never learned to keep longer eye contact with me so I started using sign with her when she was 5 and it was a challenge cuz all of sudden she was required to look at me.
 
He's 11. I do move into his field of vision only to have him turn away again. Frustrating!!

Maybe it's just normal child antics? Hearing children sometimes roll their eyes, say "whatever!", put their fingers in their ears and also may walk away and refuse to listen. A deaf child with hearing aids might do what I used to do, turn off my hearing aids! Do you feel that it's happening more than what you would consider to be normal?
 
Maybe it's just normal child antics? Hearing children sometimes roll their eyes, say "whatever!", put their fingers in their ears and also may walk away and refuse to listen. A deaf child with hearing aids might do what I used to do, turn off my hearing aids! Do you feel that it's happening more than what you would consider to be normal?

My daughter is starting to do that now...she is 10. Just need more info from rockdrummer if that is a new thing or an ongoing issue for many years.


BTW..thanks for clarifying what u mean about partially bilingual. I can see it from your view. Never thought of it that way. If u see it that way then I will respect that too. :)
 
My daughter is starting to do that now...she is 10. Just need more info from rockdrummer if that is a new thing or an ongoing issue for many years.


BTW..thanks for clarifying what u mean about partially bilingual. I can see it from your view. Never thought of it that way. If u see it that way then I will respect that too. :)

Hah! My 4 year old daughter is just now saying "I don't care!" Uh oh.

No problem about the "partial bilingual" discussion. I think we've all been having some good, two way discussions lately on the CI forum together. Even Jillio and Cloggy are making us laugh these days with their "sexual tension". :laugh2:
 
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