Thoughts of a Deaf Child

[jillio]

The poem is touching but I don't see it in reality. That's not to say it doesn't happen but from my perspective its not the norm. I know many parents of deaf kids and they are all involved with their children including learning to communicate with them by any means necessary. In some cases sign is the only means and while at times its a struggle, they still step up and do what is necessary. I only hope that in today's world there are not that many parents with the mentality of the parents in the poem. In fact, I have yet to meet a parent of a deaf child that isolates them and treats them that way and doesn't learn to communicate with them. If I did I would most likely end up in trouble.

The student who passed the poem on to me came from exactly that environment. That is why he relates so well to those words.

 

[jillio]

I think deaf people can see right through hearing parents better than hearing parents would see through another hearing parents, that's just my opinion.

You hit the nail right on the head, cheri. When my son was attending St. Rita, all parents were required to take ASL classes if they did not sign when their child was enrolled. On the campus, if a teacher or administrator saw a parent talking to a child without signing, they would walk up and remind them that the school was a TC environment and they must sign, as well as speak if desired, to all of the kids. If you stood back and watched some of these parents, it was obvious fromtheir sign skills that they used their sign only when they were in front of teachers and staff because they didn't want to be dressed down for not signing. It was all for appearance sake--see, I'm doing what you require. I'm signing! But their skills were so pitiful that you could tell they were not using them anywhere but on campus. And usually, these were the same kids that had been oral mainstreamers, but had been referred to a school for the deaf because they had fallen so far behind. The funny thing is, the kids that arrived from an oral background were communicating in sign within a few weeks, and by the time a year had passed, were code switching from ASL with their friends and the deaf faculty, and PSE with the hearing faculty and staff and parents. Of course, even though these parents were signing on campus, the deaf faculty and the students all knew the truth of the situation--that they couldn't possibly be using sign to communicate with their child in the home.

 

[shel90]

You hit the nail right on the head, cheri. When my son was attending St. Rita, all parents were required to take ASL classes if they did not sign when their child was enrolled. On the campus, if a teacher or administrator saw a parent talking to a child without signing, they would walk up and remind them that the school was a TC environment and they must sign, as well as speak if desired, to all of the kids. If you stood back and watched some of these parents, it was obvious fromtheir sign skills that they used their sign only when they were in front of teachers and staff because they didn't want to be dressed down for not signing. It was all for appearance sake--see, I'm doing what you require. I'm signing! But their skills were so pitiful that you could tell they were not using them anywhere but on campus. And usually, these were the same kids that had been oral mainstreamers, but had been referred to a school for the deaf because they had fallen so far behind. The funny thing is, the kids that arrived from an oral background were communicating in sign within a few weeks, and by the time a year had passed, were code switching from ASL with their friends and the deaf faculty, and PSE with the hearing faculty and staff and parents. Of course, even though these parents were signing on campus, the deaf faculty and the students all knew the truth of the situation--that they couldn't possibly be using sign to communicate with their child in the home.

I know what u mean! It is so obvious who really puts the time into signing or if they are really uses on a daily basis and those who do not. I can tell that with the parents of that I meet. It is a challenge for hearing people who had no interest in deafness or sign language just to do the work that is needed in learning sign language. That's why I have such a huge admiration and respect for those parents who do become fluent in it cuz it showed that they really worked very hard. I know many families arent presented the opportunity to learn sign language due to other family problems, jobs, or lack of transportation. We just do what we can do for those families. It is those familes who say they dont need to learn sign langauge for their children that really turn me off cuz their chidlren are starving for communication or language outside of school.

 

[jillio]

I know what u mean! It is so obvious who really puts the time into signing or if they are really uses on a daily basis and those who do not. I can tell that with the parents of that I meet. It is a challenge for hearing people who had no interest in deafness or sign language just to do the work that is needed in learning sign language. That's why I have such a huge admiration and respect for those parents who do become fluent in it cuz it showed that they really worked very hard. I know many families arent presented the opportunity to learn sign language due to other family problems, jobs, or lack of transportation. We just do what we can do for those families. It is those familes who say they dont need to learn sign langauge for their children that really turn me off cuz their chidlren are starving for communication or language outside of school.

Absolutley. That's why I was so impressed that St. Rita provided the sign class for parents. They had the attitude of "This is what you need to do, so let us help you learn to do it." And if you just start when your child is young and only need a limited voabulary, its easier. You can increase you vocab as the child gets older and needs more vocab. Using it every day, in all communications with your child is the easiest way to fluency.

 

[Cloggy]

................. If you stood back and watched some of these parents, it was obvious fromtheir sign skills that they used their sign only when they were in front of teachers and staff because they didn't want to be dressed down for not signing. It was all for appearance sake--see, I'm doing what you require. I'm signing! But their skills were so pitiful that you could tell they were not using them anywhere but on campus. ..........

Yeh,
It's appaling how parents with full jobs, hearing children and hearing families and friends don't learn sign in six weeks.
Obviously they don't care.
Anytime you see a parent struggling with sign, it just proves they don't care.
Obviously since it looks so pityful !

How were these parents feeling..?? struggling to sign, and fluent signers looking down on them!

 

[shel90]

Yeh,
It's appaling how parents with full jobs, hearing children and hearing families and friends don't learn sign in six weeks.
Obviously they don't care.
Anytime you see a parent struggling with sign, it just proves they don't care.
Obviously since it looks so pityful !

How were these parents feeling..?? struggling to sign, and fluent signers looking down on them!

Were u there and did u meet those parents that Jillo was referring to? If not, then u have no say in that situation. Also, where did Jillo say that they didnt learn sign in six weeks? She could be talking about years not weeks. How would u know unless u asked her? Also, what's up with being sarcastic..Jillo isnt talking about u..just talking about what happened in her experiences and yes, the sad truth is there are parents who ARE NOT that motivated to learn sign even though their children rely on it completely. The world doesnt work the way we all want to so there are people out there who are so removed from their children's educational progress that it is not even funny.

Believe it or not..I have met parents in which one works and the other stays at home who have so much time on their hands but yet learned enough sign language to carry a simple conversation with their deaf children. Those are the parents that pisses me off cuz if their children were unable to pick up on spoken language, why not do their best to learn sign cuz the child COMES first. I thought family values were more important than jobs?

 

[Cloggy]

......
Believe it or not..

I believe you.

 

[pek1]

I have seen too many of that from my students, from my friends' parents and myself with our families.

Shel,

I've experienced stuff like this from "educated" people when I was a kid. The teachers and support staff would disagree that I had a hearing loss because I spoke too well. I wasn't telling you this and aiming at the same time, that's just how it was. I'm a little older than you, but I still remember some of the stuff. My mother's oldest sister (my mom was 2nd oldest) was a first grade teacher and always referred to me as "deaf and dumb." She stopped it when I told her I wasn't dumb. The sister died less than five years ago; I didn't attend the funeral because I was in college, and the fact that my mother and my oldest brother knew I'd bust up laughing during the service, as the family really made her out to be a saint.

Okay, back to the two essays: I almost fell apart when I read your comment, shel, and it's sad. You know, when I was a kid, my mother wanted me to attend the state deaf school Welcome to MSAD! Minnesota State Academy for the Deaf. but my dad said, "no, costs money" as if we were millionaries. We weren't. Far from it. All my dad was interested in was fishing and hunting. We never had a camper of our own to do that stuff and dad always took the Christmas money for hunting.

On the same line, my mother was born with a birthmark on the tip of her nose and was cross-eyed. Her mother sold, I believe, Watkins Products, but she was so jealous of her kids and my mother that she didn't do a thing to help. My mom didn't have her eyes corrected until she was in high school. All her mother was concerned about were "what will the relatives think?" and that holy roller babble. She and her friends were just as mean as the devil.

Those two poems/essays . . . I have absolutely no doubt, are true. The people who are hearies come on the forums and want to know us . . . well, these two essays are part of a response to them so they know what they're dealing with.

 

[pek1]

. . . If you stood back and watched some of these parents, it was obvious from their sign skills that they used their sign only when they were in front of teachers and staff because they didn't want to be dressed down for not signing. It was all for appearance sake--see, I'm doing what you require. I'm signing! But their skills were so pitiful that you could tell they were not using them anywhere but on campus. And usually, these were the same kids that had been oral mainstreamers, but had been referred to a school for the deaf because they had fallen so far behind. The funny thing is, the kids that arrived from an oral background were communicating in sign within a few weeks, and by the time a year had passed, were code switching from ASL with their friends and the deaf faculty, and PSE with the hearing faculty and staff and parents. Of course, even though these parents were signing on campus, the deaf faculty and the students all knew the truth of the situation--that they couldn't possibly be using sign to communicate with their child in the home.

Sorry for cutting the first part off, but this just doesn't make sense to me. Can I go so far as to ask this question? Please don't get mad at me for asking it: Are these parents ashamed of their deaf/hoh kids? My parents weren't, but my mom was the one that wanted to get help for me and she didn't drive and stayed at home for 15 years.

I consider what these parents are doing child abuse. I feel very sad right now.

 

[pek1]

It is those familes who say they don't need to learn sign langauge for their children that really turn me off cuz their chidlren are starving for communication or language outside of school.

The parents and family members turn out to be the real losers in this, wouldn't you say? Later on in life, the deaf kids will be with other deaf people and not around their parents. The parents are going to feel left out, but, you know as well as I do, it's the parents damn fault. We can't choose who we're related to by blood, but we sure as heck can choose to associate with.

By the way . . . do not think I am sticking up for or feeling sorry for the parents and family that refuse to learn to sign. It is their loss and they will feel it well beyond the 18 or so years that the child lives in their home. The parents dug their own graves, as far as I'm concerned. I will never feel sorry for them.

I think I'd go so far as to ask the parents at conference time in both sign and speech why they are not signing. If parents expect a boy child to act like a boy (including wearing a tie), and a girl child act like a girl (including wearing a dress), why can't the parents learn to sign. I wish my parents had with me. My own asl sucks.

 

[Dixie]

Think of the movie titled Mr. Hollands Opus.

Story of a music teacher that finds out he has a deaf son. The mother really took to sign, the music teacher sadly did not. He never had a good relationship with his son until he was told off in sign and the mother had to interpret. thats when he realized there was more to this boy than just flapping hands and a few grunts.

Towards the end of the movie the boy turns into a grown man and has made a life of his own and eventually learned to speak then the relationship with his father grew, but the father regrets not having made an earlier effort to bond with his son and it is reflected in the movie.

 

[Cloggy]

... I wish my parents had with me. My own asl sucks.

Why haven't you learned more ASL by now? If parents can learn it to communicate with their children, you can learn it to communicate with other deaf people...

So, why haven't you learned properly. What's holding you back to learn the "natural" language ?

 

[pek1]

Why haven't you learned more ASL by now? If parents can learn it to communicate with their children, you can learn it to communicate with other deaf people...

So, why haven't you learned properly. What's holding you back to learn the "natural" language ?

I'm very oral. I've had one year of asl here at the university. I rely on note taking (in class) and speechreading.

In fact, to tell you the truth, Cloggy, I have no good reason for not learning more by now. When I was a kid, my mother wanted me to go to Faribault (the deaf school). I didn't know about this until a few years later. If I had known about what she wanted and how it would better me, I would have agreed that this would have been the best thing and my dad would be open to discuss this, especially with the people at the state school.

Now, for the future, I will need to learn more of it. I'm looking to go to law school and specialize in criminal law and civil rights (and ada) law. I've been having problems with having my hearing dog along (pictured at left), even when she is caped, that I have to do something. I don't believe calling the police all the time is the answer, so, why not have a law degree! That way, when I receive harrassment, I can take care of the problem myself, giving a business card that states that I am an attorney. That should shut them up, especially since they will know I know the law and they can't try to give me a hard time.

 

[Tousi]

Not sure how friendly lawyers and their organizations are towards paralegals in Minnesota (I was born and raised in Faribault) but if they are, going for a paralegal degree might be a good way to achieve your goals as the length of time to complete same is about 2 years.....60 units....

 

[pek1]

Not sure how friendly lawyers and their organizations are towards paralegals in Minnesota (I was born and raised in Faribault) but if they are, going for a paralegal degree might be a good way to achieve your goals as the length of time to complete same is about 2 years.....60 units....

Tousi,

I had printed out my transcript here at Minnesota State University-Moorhead and saw my grades and how many credits I have. Needless to say, I have a lot of work to do this year to bring up my gpa, although my gpa at the University of Minnesota-Duluth, where I attended 2005-2006 brought it up. I need to keep it up so that I can attend law school, as I am aiming to be an actual attorney, not a paralegal. A friend of mine graduated from MSUM with the paralegal degree, but due to a bad experience during his (required) internship, he didn't pursue this career. He has a history degree as well and hasn't decided what he'd like to be.

By the way, on a personal note, I envy you for being at the Faribault school. Miss D posted an article in another thread about one boy's experience and I was quite touched by it. http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-news/42695-finding-his-words.html Feel free to read my comments.

 

[jillio]

Were u there and did u meet those parents that Jillo was referring to? If not, then u have no say in that situation. Also, where did Jillo say that they didnt learn sign in six weeks? She could be talking about years not weeks. How would u know unless u asked her? Also, what's up with being sarcastic..Jillo isnt talking about u..just talking about what happened in her experiences and yes, the sad truth is there are parents who ARE NOT that motivated to learn sign even though their children rely on it completely. The world doesnt work the way we all want to so there are people out there who are so removed from their children's educational progress that it is not even funny.

Believe it or not..I have met parents in which one works and the other stays at home who have so much time on their hands but yet learned enough sign language to carry a simple conversation with their deaf children. Those are the parents that pisses me off cuz if their children were unable to pick up on spoken language, why not do their best to learn sign cuz the child COMES first. I thought family values were more important than jobs?

Thanks, shel. And you are right: the parents I am talking about had teenaged children who had been deaf since birth or shortly thereafter. And, I was a single parent raising my son fromthe time he was six, working to support us, and still had time for sign and to be involved with his education. So don't tell me it can't be done, as cloggy implies.

 

[jillio]

Sorry for cutting the first part off, but this just doesn't make sense to me. Can I go so far as to ask this question? Please don't get mad at me for asking it: Are these parents ashamed of their deaf/hoh kids? My parents weren't, but my mom was the one that wanted to get help for me and she didn't drive and stayed at home for 15 years.

I consider what these parents are doing child abuse. I feel very sad right now.

You know, I honestly don't know whether it is shame, or simply so set in the oralist philosophy that they expect the kids to adjust to them. And I agree, it does create an emotionally and educationally neglectful environment for the child.

 

[jillio]

Yeh,
It's appaling how parents with full jobs, hearing children and hearing families and friends don't learn sign in six weeks.
Obviously they don't care.
Anytime you see a parent struggling with sign, it just proves they don't care.
Obviously since it looks so pityful !

How were these parents feeling..?? struggling to sign, and fluent signers looking down on them!

Just have to make it personal, don't you cloggy? If you don't have anything useful to add, shut the hell up!

 

[Cheri]

I have two hearing children I do not force my hearing children to sign or require to learn to sign, if they're interesting in learning signs for all that means I'll be more than glad to teach them. It isn't about me, It's about them. I don't have to force them to enter my world when they're not deaf themselves. Hearing parents should do the same thing it isn't' about them it's about their deaf children, enter their world, learn their language, understand them and their needs, not forcing to implant them just because You think that's the best decision and choice. Life isn't about hearing music and sounds, Life is about enjoying it while it lasted, "be yourself, be who you are, not someone you aren't."

 

[jillio]

I have two hearing children I do not force my hearing children to sign or require to learn to sign, if they're interesting in learning signs for all that means I'll be more than glad to teach them. It isn't about me, It's about them. I don't have to force them to enter my world when they're not deaf themselves. Hearing parents should do the same thing it isn't' about them it's about their deaf children, enter their world, learn their language, understand them and their needs, not forcing to implant them just because You think that's the best decision and choice. Life isn't about hearing music and sounds, Life is about enjoying it while it lasted, "be yourself, be who you are, not someone you aren't."