The new deaf generation....speaking and listening

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kokonut said:
Sure I do. What's left of it, that is. Thank god for hearing aids and early intervention. I can pick up all kinds of accents but I can you this, Vint Cerf does not have that deaf accent and can easily pass as a hearing person. Like I said, one example to prove your premise as false.
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He may pass as a hearing person, but as with all deaf who have good speech skills, he will be passing as a hearing person with a speech impediment or an unrecognized foreign accent when in the company of the hearing.

I find it quite sad that any deaf person would feel the need or take pride in "passing as a hearing person". Reminds me of the days in which people of color attempted to pass to prevent oppression.
 
jillio said:
I find it quite sad that any deaf person would feel the need or take pride in "passing as a hearing person". Reminds me of the days in which people of color attempted to pass to prevent oppression.
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Please do not equate the civil rights movement with Deaf issues.
 
Beowulf said:
Just because the hearing people on this forum didn't say they heard any accent does not mean they are without it. The hearing people are a polite bunch here.
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I'm a hearing person who is not quite so polite. I hear a deaf accent. But perhaps that is because I have been exposed to much more speech in the deaf than have the other hearing people. I know what to look for, and I know where the consistencies lie across the population.

In fact, we had a deaf poster here a few years ago that claimed not to have a deaf accent. I challanged him. He placed a phone call to me, and I pointed out just exactly where his enunciation was evident of a deaf accent. He conceded that maybe he did have a deaf accent, but he could not hear it in himself.
 
TheOracle said:
Please do not equate the civil rights movement with Deaf issues.
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Why not? The Deaf are oppressed in the same way that people of color have been oppressed. Check your history.
 
jillio said:
Then you agree that koko's definition is in error by including "effortlessly" in the criteria for fluency.
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"Effortlessly" as in, if I want to say: Where is the bathroom in this restaurant? Do I need a key? I can do that without spending ten seconds remembering the word for 'key'. Kids are fluent in a language by the time they enter kindergarten. It's about that kind of effort, I think, that Grendel was talking about.

NOT effort like, "thinking that language" or "articulating perfectly" or whatever.
 
jillio said:
My assessment is quite different than yours. In fact, I was directed to a video you have on your blog yesterday. Your deaf accent is obvious, despite your pretense that it doesn't exist. The naive, myopic view is that it does not require effort for a deaf individual to speak. If it did not require effort,, speech therapists would be put out of business.
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Most hearing people won't recognize the way I recognize some words as deaf accent but I'm sure you could pick up on it if you were to hear my speech.
 
jillio said:
He may pass as a hearing person, but as with all deaf who have good speech skills, he will be passing as a hearing person with a speech impediment or an unrecognized foreign accent when in the company of the hearing.

I find it quite sad that any deaf person would feel the need or take pride in "passing as a hearing person". Reminds me of the days in which people of color attempted to pass to prevent oppression.
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You might want to rethink such a comment. I don't believe Cerf is trying to "pass" as anything -- he's very active in deaf advocacy and open abut his deafness. The people listening to him don't give a damn about any accent or speech impediment (neither of which are apparent to me), he's an incredibly brilliant man: they care about what he is saying.
 
jillio said:
I'm a hearing person who is not quite so polite. I hear a deaf accent. But perhaps that is because I have been exposed to much more speech in the deaf than have the other hearing people. I know what to look for, and I know where the consistencies lie across the population.

In fact, we had a deaf poster here a few years ago that claimed not to have a deaf accent. I challanged him. He placed a phone call to me, and I pointed out just exactly where his enunciation was evident of a deaf accent. He conceded that maybe he did have a deaf accent, but he could not hear it in himself.
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I remember that post.
 
jillio said:
Why not? The Deaf are oppressed in the same way that people of color have been oppressed. Check your history.
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Jillio, you like to talk about how qualified you are because of your degree. :roll: Well, now it's my turn. I teach history for a living and I can most certainly tell you that Deaf in America have not been subjected to Jim Crow, slavery, lynch mobs, etc.

People don't look at a Deaf kid and cross to the other side of the street in fear and/or disgust!
 
deafskeptic said:
Most hearing people won't recognize the way I recognize some words as deaf accent but I'm sure you could pick up on it if you were to hear my speech.
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And any hearing person with a lick of humanity would appreciate it as part of the things that make you cute. ;) Just like any other accent.
 
TheOracle said:
"Effortlessly" as in, if I want to say: Where is the bathroom in this restaurant? Do I need a key? I can do that without spending ten seconds remembering the word for 'key'. Kids are fluent in a language by the time they enter kindergarten. It's about that kind of effort, I think, that Grendel was talking about.

NOT effort like, "thinking that language" or "articulating perfectly" or whatever.
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The definition did not operationally define "effortlessly".

Most deaf never achieve native fluency in English because even if it is the only language they have, they have not been able to acquire it. It has to be taught. The mere fact of teaching it rather than having acquired it on a developmentally appropriate time schedule, beginning at birth, means that additional effort will be necessary.
 
TheOracle said:
Please do not equate the civil rights movement with Deaf issues.
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I'm afraid civil rights are quite important to us - especially when it comes to communication, jobs and education.
 
TheOracle said:
And any hearing person with a lick of humanity would appreciate it as part of the things that make you cute. ;) Just like any other accent.
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I would hate being described as cute due to my speech.
 
TheOracle said:
Jillio, you like to talk about how qualified you are because of your degree. :roll: Well, now it's my turn. I teach history for a living and I can most certainly tell you that Deaf in America have not been subjected to Jim Crow, slavery, lynch mobs, etc.

People don't look at a Deaf kid and cross to the other side of the street in fear and/or disgust!
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They do.
 
TheOracle said:
Jillio, you like to talk about how qualified you are because of your degree. :roll: Well, now it's my turn. I teach history for a living and I can most certainly tell you that Deaf in America have not been subjected to Jim Crow, slavery, lynch mobs, etc.

People don't look at a Deaf kid and cross to the other side of the street in fear and/or disgust!
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You obviously teach hearing history.:cool2:

In the past, people most certainly have avoided the company of the D/deaf, and many hearing parents still refuse to expose their deaf children to their peers.
 
posts from hell said:
They do.
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Yes, Oracle needs to take the time to become more educated on Deaf history.

I have a great deal of African American in my heritage, and I take no offense to the comparison, nor does any other Black person I know.
 
TheOracle said:
"Effortlessly" as in, if I want to say: Where is the bathroom in this restaurant? Do I need a key? I can do that without spending ten seconds remembering the word for 'key'. Kids are fluent in a language by the time they enter kindergarten. It's about that kind of effort, I think, that Grendel was talking about.

NOT effort like, "thinking that language" or "articulating perfectly" or whatever.
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Right. It's the ease and flow on speaking that she was talking about. Something that's automatic when it comes to speaking. It's like when you first learned how to drive a car. All those things you have to remember. The brakes. Gas pedal. Emergency brakes. Turn signals. Speed. The location of your car relative to other cars. When to brake. Watching out for traffic signals and signs. Watching out for other traffic. Using your side view mirror. Your rear view mirror. Putting on your seat belt. It took a lot of effort in the beginning to remember those things and took time to develop that into a skill where you've become an experienced and adept driver where it has become an automatic experience.
 
jillio said:
You obviously teach hearing history.:cool2:

In the past, people most certainly have avoided the company of the D/deaf, and many hearing parents still refuse to expose their deaf children to their peers.
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When my childhood best friend discovered the deaf culture and wanted to get married, her family threatened to boycott the wedding if she invited and signing deaf friends. I'm not making this one up.

She's the same one who bragged about how she could lipread better than me.
 
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