The new deaf generation....speaking and listening

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Don't get it, do you?

Figures.
 
shel90 said:
That's nice and I agree BUT I don't think you are getting what I mean. You grew up hearing, right? If so, you had full 100% access to language. I didn't except for through reading. If I didn't read like I did, my cognitive development would hqave been severly retarded from the constant lack of access to labguage by being is such an extremely restrictive environment 24/7. That is what many of us, deaf people, are put at risk for by an ignorant heari.ng socirty on how critical ASL is for us.
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I think what she was trying to say is that, well, hearing people look down on other hearing people for 'bad grammar' and 'bad English'. I mean, Academic English is used by what? 5 per cent of the population? Standard English is maybe half or so...most hearing Americans can't even write a proper business proposal.

Basically, you can have access to sound and be a moron. Shel, I think you shortchange yourself when it comes to written language. No hearing people on AD can 'see' your 'accent'. You write in Standard Written English and appear no less fluent than your hearing neighbor.

I also know many hearing people who can't communicate worth a stick out loud but excel at writing.

:)
 
jillio said:
From your statement regarding if the poster could hear your daughter speaking.
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I think you meant to address deafcaroline: she sees fluency as a speech pathology term including criteria such as resonance, articulation. See her explanation. We determined that I'm looking at it somewhat differently: with regard to language, in terms of how quickly and smoothly a particular language comes to mind and flows with ease.

That's why I said that with our different perspectives on what fluency means, she would not see my daughter as fluent, yet I do.
 
shel90 said:
Damn android phone...sorry for the spelling mistakes. Internet is down at home so I am using my phone but smart touch isn't as accurate as the keyboards. Pls bear with me
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That drives me bats on my iphone, too: between autocorrect and fat-fingering keys ... ugh. When it comes to posting, although we're may not be "articulating precisely" because of our misuse of the keys, I think we're still expressing ourselves and people still understand us: so at least we're fluent :) and fall in somewhere on Beachgirls's very cool FS scale.
 
kokonut said:
TheOracle, I provided two links on the definition of "fluently" of which one is about speaking effortlessly. I also agreed with what GrendelQ said about fluency.

What Beclak claimed was that people born with hearing loss (or very early on) are unable to speak effortlessly later on whether with mild hearing loss or profound, and whether with a hearing aid or cochlear implant. Effortlessly in this example is the ability to speak without much effort or thought. I provided video examples of such from people with hearing aids and cochlear implants who are able to speak effortlessly. Meaning, they speak without any problems...not struggling, not haltingly, not mumbling, etc. For example, I speak effortlessly with anyone that I speak to, and they understand me 100%. Not a surprise because speaking has become automatic for me. Just as people can sign effortlessly without thinking to other signers and be understood 100%. They do it automatically. Just like when Vint Cerf speaks effortlessly. It is automatic for him. I answer the phone and speak with strangers without any effort. It's automatic for me. Just because you can't do it effortlessly doesn't mean every deaf or hard of hearing person is unable to speak effortlessly. That's a very naive, and myopic view. I already provided at least one video that proved that idea false deaf/hh people cannot speak effortlessly. They can. Many do. And they're certainly not struggling to speak as you can see in those videos.
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I don't care how "fluently" deafies speak. They have accents, every single one, that can never be erased.
 
My, my, and how time has changed with the pace of technology and (very) early intervention have made a huge difference. People wouldn't know if they were listening to a deaf or hh person. All it takes is to have one example to make that premise that all deaf/hh people have a deaf accent as false.
 
kokonut said:
My, my, and how time has changed with the pace of technology and (very) early intervention have made a huge difference. People wouldn't know if they were listening to a deaf or hh person. All it takes is to have one example to make that premise that all deaf/hh people have a deaf accent as false.
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Then by all means show that example. See? You can't.
 
If you won't take the direct statements from and about d/Deaf individuals saying that they feel fluent in spoken languages, what type of example or proof would be required to show that it is possible for a d/Deaf person to be fluent in a spoken language? And how would you evaluate it?
 
GrendelQ said:
If you won't take the direct statements from and about d/Deaf individuals saying that they feel fluent in spoken languages, what type of example or proof would be required to show that it is possible for a d/Deaf person to be fluent in a spoken language? And how would you evaluate it?
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I wouldn't/don't require anything because it is an occurance so rare as to not be worth the bother.
 
I've been puzzled by this line of questioning -- why do we need the feel to define who, and who isn't, fluent? (By their own definition, of course.)

I could almost see another thread coming on as to who is the deafest here, and who has the most hearing here. Or, who has the best signing, and who has the worst. And so on. And all by their own definition.

I personally don't feel the need to evaluate who is fluent, or effortless, in their speaking. Or anything else. Everyone has their own comfort level.
 
kokonut said:
I already did.
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Just because the hearing people on this forum didn't say they heard any accent does not mean they are without it. The hearing people are a polite bunch here.
 
Beowulf said:
Just because no hearing people on this forum didn't say they heard no accent does not mean they are without it. The hearing people are a polite bunch here.
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:shock: Have you met the same people I have??!
 
Bottesini said:
:shock: Have you met the same people I have??!
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I think so. The idea of a deaf person having utterly perfect control of every aspect of the voice stretches belief, but apparently at least one deafie in here believes it. I have not seen any hearies remark on any accent, and what is that but politeness? :lol:
 
Well, from one hearing person who had this to say about Vint Cerf:

"I think he speaks better than most hearing people.... I did not notice any hesitation (which can not even be said for most hearing people). He was a lot more eloquent than most people who are talking into a tape or video. If someone is not used to speaking in front of a group they sound much worse than this guy does.... I would not have been able to tell he was not a hearing person at all. There is not a bit of dropping parts of words, slurring, pausing, hesitating or anything like that."

And that was my assessment, too. :dunno:
 
kokonut said:
Well, from one hearing person who had this to say about Vint Cerf:

"I think he speaks better than most hearing people.... I did not notice any hesitation (which can not even be said for most hearing people). He was a lot more eloquent than most people who are talking into a tape or video. If someone is not used to speaking in front of a group they sound much worse than this guy does.... I would not have been able to tell he was not a hearing person at all. There is not a bit of dropping parts of words, slurring, pausing, hesitating or anything like that."

And that was my assessment, too. :dunno:
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Your assessment, too? Dang, you have marrrrvelous hearing. Oh yeah, riiiight. Did that hearing person check his teeth, too? :roll:
 
Bottesini said:
:shock: Have you met the same people I have??!
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:laugh2:


I think Vint Cerf speaks eloquently, fluently, articulately. Is there even a question about that from someone? And because he's not an ADer, as far as I know, I hope you won't think I'm just being polite.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9M0RPNr9qg[/ame]
 
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GrendelQ said:
:laugh2:


I think Vint Cerf speaks eloquently, fluently, articulately. Is there even a question about that from someone? And because he's not an ADer, as far as I know, I hope you won't think I'm just being polite.

YouTube - ‪Greyglers@Google: Vint Cerf‬‏
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Lipreading him is like lipreading a hairbrush.
Lee Van Cleef was far easier.
(Don't ask me why I threw that in!) :giggle:
 
Beowulf said:
Your assessment, too? Dang, you have marrrrvelous hearing. Oh yeah, riiiight. Did that hearing person check his teeth, too? :roll:
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Sure I do. What's left of it, that is. Thank god for hearing aids and early intervention. I can pick up all kinds of accents but I can you this, Vint Cerf does not have that deaf accent and can easily pass as a hearing person. Like I said, one example to prove your premise as false.
 
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