The "Mainstreaming" Experience: "Isolated cases"?

hate her bs. She makes crap up and then repeats it over and over. This is the 5th time she has said that lipreading thing and it is patently untrue and she KEEPS saying it.
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Um no. I need to look up the cite in a useless trivia book I have, and then post it. You don't understand that English is NOT purely sound based a la Chinese.
But there are sounds that have a "lipreading" componet. Such as p vs t. It may not be obvious, BUT it is there.
 
deafdyke said:
Um no. I need to look up the cite in a useless trivia book I have, and then post it. You don't understand that English is NOT purely sound based a la Chinese.
But there are sounds that have a "lipreading" componet. Such as p vs t. It may not be obvious, BUT it is there.
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I don't understand what you're describing.

What do you mean, "that English is NOT purely sound based a la Chinese?"

English speaking hearing people can understand each others speech without lipreading clues, such as when they talk on the phone or listen to talk radio.
 
I don't understand what you're describing.

What do you mean, "that English is NOT purely sound based a la Chinese?"

English speaking hearing people can understand each others speech without lipreading clues, such as when they talk on the phone or listen to talk radio.
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With Chinese it is VERY sound based. Meaning you cannot speech or lipread it. Well you can, but in Chinese dialects (as Chinese isn't a language, but rather a group of dialects with a common written alphabet) a word's meaning depends on the pitch with what it's spoken...
A Chinese person could say something but without hearing it, you would not know whether it was one word or another word. The same word pronounced differently can mean something drasticly different.
English doesn't have that. And yes I know that English hearing people can depend on hearing exclusively for short periods of time. That's the key....short periods of time. And even within that short period of time, there can be mishearings and misunderstandings, depending on the quality of the person's speech. In French class we would have listening quizzes. Even the HEARING kids couldn't understand it, b/c it was very polished professional speaker.
Seriously, hearing people speechread more then you think you do. You're just unaware. Granted it's not as easy to speechread as German. German is very easy to speechread. (which is where they got the idea for oralism) But you do speechread. Matter of fact, did you know that BLIND (and just blind, not just cognitively impaired) kids have to have speech therapy to learn to make sounds they can't see on people's lips?
 
deafdyke said:
... And yes I know that English hearing people can depend on hearing exclusively for short periods of time. That's the key....short periods of time. And even within that short period of time, there can be mishearings and misunderstandings, depending on the quality of the person's speech....
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What do you consider to be a short period of time?
 
Is a deaf person telling a hearing person what it is like to hear?
 
There are certainly visual clues as to what sound is being produced. However, I recall reading somewhere that something like only 20-30% of the English language can be read through speech reading.

That leaves a lot of room for error, all the more reason to consistently have the visual clues to support spoken language.

All respect to you DD, I just thought that was funny. I believe that Chinese may be even more difficult to speech read than English. Do they use sign language in China?
 
CSign said:
There are certainly visual clues as to what sound is being produced. However, I recall reading somewhere that something like only 20-30% of the English language can be read through speech reading.

That leaves a lot of room for error, all the more reason to consistently have the visual clues to support spoken language.

All respect to you DD, I just thought that was funny. I believe that Chinese may be even more difficult to speech read than English. Do they use sign language in China?
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Even Wiki should be good enough for such a simple question. Were you joking?


Chinese Sign Language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
CSign said:
No, it was a sincere question. It dawned on me that I'd never read, or heard anything about the use of sign language in China. So I put it out into the AD universe.
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Well, ok, the deaf in just about every country in the world pretty much have their own sign language.
 
With my son being mainstreamed, I worry about the social part every day. The interpreters have finally started going out with him at lunch (they were supposed to do it the whole time but our SD is not exactly on top of their game).
I requested last year that he be in the same class as another HH child, but of course that did not happen. We will see if they pull it together next year.
I think a lot of people don't understand how important the social aspect is. It's equally important as the academics, but their needs aren't always met in the social setting.
Last year I asked the SD to write in his IEP that he have access to his FM for his extracurricular activities. They told me that it's only for use in the classroom. I was prepared for that response and provided them with relevant Ed codes. They still said they weren't sure and they'd get back to me.
A few months later they agreed to it, but not without a fight. I found it amusing as the use of his FM would not incur any additional cost. I could have asked for a terp, but didn't think it was necessary at that point.
It would bring such peace of mind knowing that my son was truly accessing his surroundings at all times when I'm not present. Unfortunately, that's not always the case...
 
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here are certainly visual clues as to what sound is being produced. However, I recall reading somewhere that something like only 20-30% of the English language can be read through speech reading.

That leaves a lot of room for error, all the more reason to consistently have the visual clues to support spoken language.
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Yes, I'm saying that both hearing and speechreading work togehter to create hearing for English speakers. Even a lot of hearing people can pick up "deaf" speechreading (meaning really fluent speechreading as opposed to the more subtle speechreading that hearing people do) if they are exposed to dhh people. At camp, college, my job at the IGA I worked with hearing people, and many of my close friends could have a "spoken" conversation with me without even making a sound.
 
Wirelessly posted

deafdyke said:
hate her bs. She makes crap up and then repeats it over and over. This is the 5th time she has said that lipreading thing and it is patently untrue and she KEEPS saying it.
Click to expand...
Um no. I need to look up the cite in a useless trivia book I have, and then post it. You don't understand that English is NOT purely sound based a la Chinese.
But there are sounds that have a "lipreading" componet. Such as p vs t. It may not be obvious, BUT it is there.
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p and t are distictly different.

a person without a hearing loss hears just as well with their eyes closed, or from behind.

you are absolutly wrong.

you can look up and read about the acoustical differences in each sound.
 
With my son being mainstreamed, I worry about the social part every day. The interpreters have finally started going out with him at lunch (they were supposed to do it the whole time but our SD is not exactly on top of their game).
I requested last year that he be in the same class as another HH child, but of course that did not happen. We will see if they pull it together next year.
I think a lot of people don't understand how important the social aspect is. It's equally important as the academics, but their needs aren't always met in the social setting.
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That is AWESOME you reconize this!!!!! And it's also awesome that you reconize that he needs exposure to both dhh and hearing peers. Damn, if I was near you, I'd try to serve as a mentor/Big Sister to your son. School is so much more then just listening to a teacher drone on through an FM device.
I don't have any ideas for in school socialization. But on the other hand, it's possible, especically if you live in a diverse setting that social emotional issues won't be too bad. It does seem overall, that a lot of HH kids do OK social wise early on.....I mean early on "socialization" is basicly " You like yellow? I like yellow! Let's be best friends!" But of course there's the fourth grade glass ceiling to worry about. (not just about academic acheivement)
Maybe a good idea for out of school socialization, might be creating a club for mainstreamed dhh kids (through the auspices of the School for the Deaf's outreach program) That can be and is VERY important for young dhh kids.....I'll never forget thinking I was the only dhh kid in the universe. I would have loved to have a chance to interact regularly with other kids like me.
 
Creating a club for mainstreamed DHH kids is a great idea. I'm going to need to look into doing something like that.

I think it was in this thread DD where you mention that CA has great programs for DHH kids, and unfortunately that's not really the case. I think there are only a handful of good schools (i.e. CSDF/CSDR and a few magnet programs). Considering how large this state is, you would think there would be more options but they really are not there.
 
Everyone told me I was the poster child of a profoundly deaf child who was on the honor roll and top of her class at a public school with very minimal accommodations and no modifications. I was in many clubs (Beta, FHA, FBLA, etc.) and I had a good number of friends. I was voted for many things - homecoming court, Miss this, Miss that. But I was very, very lonely. Angry. Failed several suicidal attempts. I was really good at masking my frustration, anger, resentment, and sadness. One day I quit. 4.0 gpa meant nothing. I finally broke. And it was months before my parents could get through to me.

Going to the deaf school saved me. Just in time.
 
DD where you mention that CA has great programs for DHH kids, and unfortunately that's not really the case. I think there are only a handful of good schools (i.e. CSDF/CSDR and a few magnet programs). Considering how large this state is, you would think there would be more options but they really are not there.
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Not great programs, but more......a really strong continum of placements. I really am surprised about that since they have blind/low vision resource rooms (which is a pretty unusual educational option overall) and even a day school specificly for kids with severe phyiscal issues. Maybe it's just that the area you're in doesn't offer a lot. It really is surprising since many other states have offered formal dhh programs for years, and it's not like it's something new.
But I'm actually really excited that you want to create one of those magnet programs. Did you know that there have been new deaf schools/programs still opening in all areas? I do think many if not most parents of dhh kids would love that option. Maybe a good idea might be to contact your state's NAD to see if there might be anyone who might be able to help you.
 
But I was very, very lonely. Angry. Failed several suicidal attempts. I was really good at masking my frustration, anger, resentment, and sadness. One day I quit. 4.0 gpa meant nothing. I finally broke. And it was months before my parents could get through to me.

Going to the deaf school saved me. Just in time.
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Bajagirl, wow.......Just wow.
Do you think you had a lot of "superfical" friends and popularity? I am SO relieved that going to the Deaf School saved you. ....and granted that most mainstreamed dhh kids prolly aren't sucidal, but on the other hand........
 
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