The "Mainstreaming" Experience: "Isolated cases"?

Reba said:
The interpreter should have explained to the teacher at the beginning of the school year that class discussions can't be free-for-alls, and that students will have to take turns speaking in order to meet communication accommodations. If the teacher forgets, the terp should remind the teacher. Ideally, the students should sit in a circle if it's going to be a long discussion so the deaf student/s can get a better view of who is speaking.

There are other creative ways to have group participation, such as answering by holding up paddles or flash cards, or using individual white boards and markers.
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I am talking about oral-only deaf children with no support system. That is what I am very against.

If the deaf child has a terp and has been exposed to ASL and other deaf children but is mainstreamed with a terp, I am not strongly against that.


I just would rather deaf children be in a strong DHH program in the public schools having both languages or at deaf schools.

If that is not possible, then mainstreaming with a terp.


Just mainstreaming them without allowing them to learn sign language and expect them to keep up (sink or drown attitude), that is what I am personally against.
 
shel90 said:
So what happens when there is a whole class discussion with students' chiming in their ideas, answers, and etc? How does a deaf child catch what each student is saying in a classroom of 20 plus kids?

It happened to me so I ended up withdrawing into myself because I didnt want to look like a fool not knowing what was happening. THAT IS JUST WRONG and anyone who supports that really do not value the deaf child's right to equal access to what's happening in the classroom. Good grief!
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This still happens to me today at our monthly staff meetings. There's about 15 of us. I cannot keep up with everyone who chimes in. It's very informal, so it's about as spontaneous as you can get. So when my regular interpreter isn't able to come, forget it. I simply don't go. (And everyone at work understands - no one gives me a hard time WHATSOEVER.)

In high school, such as in Acting class, or English class where the teacher expects us to all interact and discuss a book we just read, I sit there feeling like a stupid fool, and then get out of class, some kid will come up to me and nudge me and snicker, "guess ya didn't read the book, did ya? You're deaf so you must be just as stupid." This was a common everyday occurence.
 
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That is b/c special ed in our country is remedial. Most kids served by the system are LD or MR or behavioral or whatever.
 
I am talking about oral-only deaf children with no support system. That is what I am very against.

If the deaf child has a terp and has been exposed to ASL and other deaf children but is mainstreamed with a terp, I am not strongly against that.


I just would rather deaf children be in a strong DHH program in the public schools having both languages or at deaf schools.

If that is not possible, then mainstreaming with a terp.


Just mainstreaming them without allowing them to learn sign language and expect them to keep up (sink or drown attitude), that is what I am personally against.
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EXACTLY!!!!!! That is exactly why I am against oral only. Yes, spoken language is an AWESOME tool...BUT it's not appropreate in all situtions. Most oral only kids are freaking LOST in crowd/large group situtions. Which is why most oral only kids cannot take advantage of incidental learning or the "unwritten curricuulum" of school.
Kids and students can and do contribuate valuable ideas and feedback....that's how kids learn to think and debate and create their own ideas. School is NOT just about listneing to the teacher through an FM device!
 
AlleyCat said:
This still happens to me today at our monthly staff meetings. There's about 15 of us. I cannot keep up with everyone who chimes in. It's very informal, so it's about as spontaneous as you can get. So when my regular interpreter isn't able to come, forget it. I simply don't go. (And everyone at work understands - no one gives me a hard time WHATSOEVER.)

In high school, such as in Acting class, or English class where the teacher expects us to all interact and discuss a book we just read, I sit there feeling like a stupid fool, and then get out of class, some kid will come up to me and nudge me and snicker, "guess ya didn't read the book, did ya? You're deaf so you must be just as stupid." This was a common everyday occurence.
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In addition to get picked on, the opportunity to develop intrapersonal skills through dialogue with our peers is severly restricted and many deaf children end up lacking in skills in being able to engage in discusssions involving critical thinking skills, learning to accept differences in opinions and other very very important skills.

People seem to focus too much on the bullying but forget that deaf children miss out a lot in the academic setting as well.

At least hearing kids who are bullied arent sitting in a classroom full of kids trying to keep up or cut off from a lot of things that goes on at schools. Very important for normal childhood development.
 
shel90 said:
I am talking about oral-only deaf children with no support system. That is what I am very against.

If the deaf child has a terp and has been exposed to ASL and other deaf children but is mainstreamed with a terp, I am not strongly against that.

I just would rather deaf children be in a strong DHH program in the public schools having both languages or at deaf schools.

If that is not possible, then mainstreaming with a terp.

Just mainstreaming them without allowing them to learn sign language and expect them to keep up (sink or drown attitude), that is what I am personally against.
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Got it.
 
he opportunity to develop intrapersonal skills through dialogue with our peers is severly restricted and many deaf children end up lacking in skills in being able to engage in discusssions involving critical thinking skills, learning to accept differences in opinions and other very very important skills.

People seem to focus too much on the bullying but forget that deaf children miss out a lot in the academic setting as well.
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Exactly! Social emotional development is VERY important....heck it's just AS important as learnign academics. A dhh kid may be very smart and get straight As, but that's not going to help them get a job, or have a happy life if they are emotionally stunted. Hell, I know SO many horror stories!!!! People in horrible relationships who cannot realize that their partner is very scewed up, deaf girls having sex or being in bad relationships so they don't feel like they're alone, and so on and so on....and I'm sure jillo and shel could contribuate other really bad stories too.
 
deafdyke said:
Exactly! Social emotional development is VERY important....heck it's just AS important as learnign academics. A dhh kid may be very smart and get straight As, but that's not going to help them get a job, or have a happy life if they are emotionally stunted. Hell, I know SO many horror stories!!!! People in horrible relationships who cannot realize that their partner is very scewed up, deaf girls having sex or being in bad relationships so they don't feel like they're alone, and so on and so on....and I'm sure jillo and shel could contribuate other really bad stories too.
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And they are important in the workforce where more and more companies are looking for skills in teamwork.
 
Reba said:
Got it.
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The reason for me wanting deaf children to be in a large deaf/hoh program is that they can have others to relate to but I know that it is not always possible. If there is a deaf child who is mainstreamed with a terp, then I would think it would be important to have ASL classes offered to the hearing students. The deaf child has every right to have access to everything in the educational setting whether it is in or out of the classroom. All children do anyway.
 
shel90 said:
I am talking about oral-only deaf children with no support system. That is what I am very against.

If the deaf child has a terp and has been exposed to ASL and other deaf children but is mainstreamed with a terp, I am not strongly against that.


I just would rather deaf children be in a strong DHH program in the public schools having both languages or at deaf schools.

If that is not possible, then mainstreaming with a terp.


Just mainstreaming them without allowing them to learn sign language and expect them to keep up (sink or drown attitude), that is what I am personally against.
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In the bold statement, that is what happened to me when there was no knowledge to learn sign language and not be able to have an ASL interpreter in my old elementary school and high school. I had tried to tell the hearing principals, but flatly was denied my requests for ASL. The hearing ways are more important to the hearing people than the Deaf way which the deaf and hard of hearing are more comfortable to understand better than struggling through the years of suffering under their power. I was drowned and was pretty upset about it all. Why do we have to put up with them, including FJ? :roll:
 
I really get what Shel, Bebonang, DD and everybody is referring to.

<rant> My experience was also that I was often stuck in certain classes trying to keep up. True, not all classes though. I was bullied extensively for being perceived as "different" and spent a lot of time in the Resource Room. I remember refusing to play team sports at various times because I really didn't understand what everybody assumed I did, wasn't good physically at them anyway. Got in trouble for refusing to play and was made to play anyway, with kids who purposely tried to confuse me, hit me with the ball or other things and screamed and jumped on me for being "stupid"
 
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deafdyke said:
Thats for lipreading alone. I wonder about speechreading - lipreading PLUS sounds with hearing equipments (HAs, CI, etc.) It still guesswork but I can pick up words pretty accurate, not always though. HAs alone..no. lipreading alone...no. I have to use both to pick up words accurately.
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Exactly my point. Both speech and speechreading combine to create a bigger picture.
There are no Deaf schools that have classes exclusively for lipreading any more. I do agree lipreading without sound input is very hard, BUT you can also say the same about listening exclusively. Seriously, were you aware that there are sounds that can only be differentated by being seen on the lips?
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false. All speech sounds can be discriminated by audition alone.

you keep saying this and it flatly isn't true.
 
faire_jour said:
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false. All speech sounds can be discriminated by audition alone.

you keep saying this and it flatly isn't true.
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Eh? I can hear voices with my hearing aid but cannot make sense of them.
 
rraja said:
I don't really agree with the person in the video. On a personal level, I was mainstreamed for my entire school career and I don't think I would have gotten into MIT if I was in a slower-paced special ed class. My teachers were all really good so that probably helped though.

It would be interesting to see some statistics and determine what the general trend is though. All I've seen so far is anecdotal evidence which alone isn't enough to really make a conclusion.
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Think of this; it usually takes a special person to be able to get into MIT.

Either you have it or you don't.

Doesn't matter if you're deaf or not, in my opinion.
 
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posts from hell said:
faire_jour said:
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false. All speech sounds can be discriminated by audition alone.

you keep saying this and it flatly isn't true.
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Do I detect some form of sexual tension from you towards DD? You seem to have an hardon for her.
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i hate her bs. She makes crap up and then repeats it over and over. This is the 5th time she has said that lipreading thing and it is patently untrue and she KEEPS saying it.
 
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Beowulf said:
faire_jour said:
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false. All speech sounds can be discriminated by audition alone.

you keep saying this and it flatly isn't true.
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Eh? I can hear voices with my hearing aid but cannot make sense of them.
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ok, but that doesn't mean that there are sounds in the english language that sound the same but look different on the lips. In fact, that isn't true and doesn't make any sense at all.
 
rraja said:
I don't really agree with the person in the video. On a personal level, I was mainstreamed for my entire school career and I don't think I would have gotten into MIT if I was in a slower-paced special ed class. My teachers were all really good so that probably helped though.

It would be interesting to see some statistics and determine what the general trend is though. All I've seen so far is anecdotal evidence which alone isn't enough to really make a conclusion.
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You went to MIT? That's impressive!
 
faire_jour said:
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ok, but that doesn't mean that there are sounds in the english language that sound the same but look different on the lips. In fact, that isn't true and doesn't make any sense at all.
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Isle of View. I can catch the difference on the lips. :)
 
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