Technological progress: better hearing than normal hearing

Lavender said:
That's becuz they got free college tuitions from ssi gov't than hoh from mainstream.
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Free tuition doesn't give you the ability to earn an advanced degree, nor does it have anything to do with them making a success of their lives after graduation. Additionally, SSI only provides tuition assistance for the first undergrad degree. I am referring to deaf students who have earned advanced degrees. Umad?
 
Cloggy said:
Deja Vu.... and still no definition of "deaf".. For you "deaf" ranges from hearing nothing to hearing enough...
And it must be difficult, since there is no such thing as "legally deaf".
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WHAT the heck are you talking about? Just b/c a kid who is deaf can function as a HOH kid, it does NOT mean they can function like a hearing person. You are ignoring the experiance of HOH kids of the past, and assuming that just b/c there's this brand new technology called a CI, it will equalize a deaf kid. It DOES give them a lot of advantages...but HOH does NOT equal hearing at ALL! You are talking to someone who actually IS HOH and grew up under that philsophy. I can actually HEAR WITHOUT my aids!
I'm pointing out that a deaf kid who functions as HOH in easy listening situtions is HOH. NOT hearing. There is a HUGE difference.
 
Cloggy said:
Of course Lotte has her problems at school.
But have a look around at the deaf kids that went to Deaf school... Where are they now..?
And don't work back from successfull deaf people and look where they came from. Work the other way. Take a class from 10 years ago, and see where they are now...

Besides "parcipate somewhat" .. what a misinterpretation... :roll:

Wonder which "superstarts" you are looking at...
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Cloggy, you've obviously bought lock stock and barrel into the theory of academic trickle down theory. You have NO idea of the problems of sending a dhh kid to a regular school. You know, a very large reason why Deaf Schools still exist even after mainstreaming has become the norm, is b/c either dhh kids aren't thriving/being served adaquatly in the mainstream or b/c parents are SO frustrated with their kids not being served adqautly in the mainstream.
And I reiterate my statement that dhh kids can only parcipate somewhat in the hearing world. We can enjoy it somewhat......BUT not the way a hearing person can. You are fooling yourself if you think a hearing aid or a CI gives full unfettered access to the hearign world. If that's true, then how come LATE DEAFENED people constantly complain that while the heairng from aids and CIs are great, it's not at ALL like being hearing?
 
jillio said:
I know many deaf kids who went to Deaf schools that have ended up with Master degrees and Ph.D.'s and are successful professionals in their field.:cool2: Success is much more likely when coming from a deaf school than from the mainstream, for any number of reasons. You are so very misinformed regarding these topics.
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There are many deaf kids who were educated in the mainstream who also have Masters degrees, Ph.D's, law degrees and who are successful professionals. The reasons are pretty straight forward they had the natural abilities, they applied themselves, they usually have supportive families and parents and they had good language and communicative skills in at least one language. All of which Cloggy's daughter seems to have except she is multi-lingual so he seems to very informed on these topics.
 
rick48 said:
There are many deaf kids who were educated in the mainstream who also have Masters degrees, Ph.D's, law degrees and who are successful professionals. The reasons are pretty straight forward they had the natural abilities, they applied themselves, they usually have supportive families and parents and they had good language and communicative skills in at least one language. All of which Cloggy's daughter seems to have except she is multi-lingual so he seems to very informed on these topics.
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Tell me the ratio of these deaf kids compared to the ones that did not succeed, along with the comparison of their hearing counterparts.
 
deafdyke said:
Cloggy (and other hearing parents) Yes, your little kids are doing well. But, I predict both that a lot of the oral and mainstreamed kids will plautau and start to struggle...
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Not so fast Nostradamus. Your crystal ball is as clouded as your prediction regarding your usual prediction of doom and gloom for ci kids.

Actually, there is no need for predictions as the first wave of ci kids have already graduated college with thousands more right behind them. With so many ci kids now young adults and college age students where are the "major issues socially" that you claim they have? Certainly you can point to numerous studies and research that shows these young adults and college age students are rife with "major issues socially"? Or, as is always the case with you, that you are just making it up as you go along? Saying what you know will please the AD masses?

To rebut your unsubstantiated assumptions just from my little neck of the woods of the ci kids who are my daughter's contemporaries all but one has either graduated college or is still in college and from some damn good schools too! One is in law school, others already have their Masters and are working, several are in Grad school, two of those still in college are playing intercollegiate sports, a couple are married or engaged, and so on and so on. None have "major issues socially".

Contrary to your misguided unsubstantiated "prediction" they are living their lives very similar to those of their hearing and deaf peers.

Myself (and other hearing parents) have repeatedly told you that we have not seen ci kids plagued by the "major issues socially" that you and others so desperately wish to impose upon them. Why you want to see ci kids fail or any kid fail is beyond comprehension! Is it to compensate for something lacking in your life? But we realize that it does not matter for no matter what we say about our experiences being around ci kids and ci adults, it does not matter to you as, to borrow one of your favorite phrases: You just don't get it. You never have and never will.
 
posts from hell said:
Tell me the ratio of these deaf kids compared to the ones that did not succeed, along with the comparison of their hearing counterparts.
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Tell me the ratio of Deaf kids educated in Deaf schools with Masters and/or Ph,D's compared to those in Deaf schools without such degrees, along with a comparison to their hearing counterparts.
 
rick48 said:
There are many deaf kids who were educated in the mainstream who also have Masters degrees, Ph.D's, law degrees and who are successful professionals. The reasons are pretty straight forward they had the natural abilities, they applied themselves, they usually have supportive families and parents and they had good language and communicative skills in at least one language. All of which Cloggy's daughter seems to have except she is multi-lingual so he seems to very informed on these topics.
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Rick, that wasn't a mainstream bash for crying out loud. Besides, there have ALWAYS been superstars in the mainstream. ALWAYS....even back in the 40's and 50's! it doesn't mean that they represent the majority. You know, it was very common even in mine and your daughter's generation for a kid to start out in the mainstream, and then transfer to Clarke/CID or St. Joseph's for middle school. That's a large reason why deaf schools and oral deaf schools still existed as dorm schools past 1974. If the mainstream was that great, then how come so many kids had to transfer to oral deaf schools for middle school?
 
and rick, you still don't understand that your daughter had an extraordinarily easy time in the mainstream compared to many first generation implantees. I mean she did well with a tradtional minimal accomondations approach and didn't have to transfer to Clarke/CID/St. Josephs, and didn't even have any social issues............do you know how rare that is? Even a lot of audilogically HOH kids never did that well!
 
rick48 said:
Not so fast Nostradamus. Your crystal ball is as clouded as your prediction regarding your usual prediction of doom and gloom for ci kids.

Actually, there is no need for predictions as the first wave of ci kids have already graduated college with thousands more right behind them. With so many ci kids now young adults and college age students where are the "major issues socially" that you claim they have? Certainly you can point to numerous studies and research that shows these young adults and college age students are rife with "major issues socially"? Or, as is always the case with you, that you are just making it up as you go along? Saying what you know will please the AD masses?

To rebut your unsubstantiated assumptions just from my little neck of the woods of the ci kids who are my daughter's contemporaries all but one has either graduated college or is still in college and from some damn good schools too! One is in law school, others already have their Masters and are working, several are in Grad school, two of those still in college are playing intercollegiate sports, a couple are married or engaged, and so on and so on. None have "major issues socially".

Contrary to your misguided unsubstantiated "prediction" they are living their lives very similar to those of their hearing and deaf peers.

Myself (and other hearing parents) have repeatedly told you that we have not seen ci kids plagued by the "major issues socially" that you and others so desperately wish to impose upon them. Why you want to see ci kids fail or any kid fail is beyond comprehension! Is it to compensate for something lacking in your life? But we realize that it does not matter for no matter what we say about our experiences being around ci kids and ci adults, it does not matter to you as, to borrow one of your favorite phrases: You just don't get it. You never have and never will.
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rick, you're seeing the AG Bell CI kids. There are still many many CI kids who ended up at deaf schools you know! It's not that I want CI kids to fail.....but overall, many CI (and HOH kids) have reported many issues socially and emotionally in the mainstream!
 
rick48 said:
Tell me the ratio of Deaf kids educated in Deaf schools with Masters and/or Ph,D's compared to those in Deaf schools without such degrees, along with a comparison to their hearing counterparts.
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Already have proven they're better than the mainstream counterparts. (According to the FOIA information from states of Indiana and Maryland.

Now, wheres your information coming from, Fluffmouth?

By the way, when you were on a vacation from AllDeaf - I wanted to raise a few questions for ya to answer. Let me know if you want me to do so.
 
rick48 said:
There are many deaf kids who were educated in the mainstream who also have Masters degrees, Ph.D's, law degrees and who are successful professionals. The reasons are pretty straight forward they had the natural abilities, they applied themselves, they usually have supportive families and parents and they had good language and communicative skills in at least one language. All of which Cloggy's daughter seems to have except she is multi-lingual so he seems to very informed on these topics.
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You are as misinformed as Cloggy.:roll:
 
rick48 said:
Tell me the ratio of Deaf kids educated in Deaf schools with Masters and/or Ph,D's compared to those in Deaf schools without such degrees, along with a comparison to their hearing counterparts.
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Per population, you will find more Deaf of Deaf schools with advanced degrees than you will hearing kids from the mainstream with advanced degrees.
 
jillio said:
Per population, you will find more Deaf of Deaf schools with advanced degrees than you will hearing kids from the mainstream with advanced degrees.
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My wife was a student at a school for the deaf and she has a Bachelor of Arts and a Masters as well.
 
deafdyke said:
and rick, you still don't understand that your daughter had an extraordinarily easy time in the mainstream compared to many first generation implantees. I mean she did well with a tradtional minimal accomondations approach and didn't have to transfer to Clarke/CID/St. Josephs, and didn't even have any social issues............do you know how rare that is? Even a lot of audilogically HOH kids never did that well!
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Well, let's be fair. We don't even know that his daughter had an extraordinarily easy time in the mainstream. We haven't heard that from her at all. We simply heard it from her father, who has already demonstrated an extreme bias. As with most cases, we would probably hear a different story coming directly from her. In fact, an article of unpublished research posted a short while ago confirmed that parents overestimate the ease with which their children are functioning in the mainstream. Of course, that really came as no surprise.
 
Banjo said:
My wife was a student at a school for the deaf and she has a Bachelor of Arts and a Masters as well.
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There you go! It is very difficult for a student from the mainstream, who has been underserved academically and just passed through the system, to develop the skills necessary to successfully complete an advanced education. Most require remedial work at the college entrance level because the mainstream has failed them.
 
I was mainstreamed from an early age, and an academic failure. In retrospect, the nightmares I had to deal with had an effect on my psyche.
 
jillio said:
There you go! It is very difficult for a student from the mainstream, who has been underserved academically and just passed through the system, to develop the skills necessary to successfully complete an advanced education. Most require remedial work at the college entrance level because the mainstream has failed them.
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Yes.Hell, I was VERY underserved academicly. There's still a teacher at the elementary school I attended who still remembers how I got cheated out of a decent education. God, I remember one IEP conference where my parents were actually told " Oh she's not really deaf, so we don't really have to do anything all that much?!?!" I was lumped in with the dumbasses who were in special ed b/c it was (and is) a dumping ground.....and i was the type of kid who scored very high language wise (an area of concern for dhh kids) and took two foriegn languages too.
 
Banjo said:
My wife was a student at a school for the deaf and she has a Bachelor of Arts and a Masters as well.
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Well, same w/ ex-hoh has a master degree graduated from Columbia Univ, but not from deaf school. I have some of my dhh friends from mainstream. They have B.A. & M.A. graduated from Univ of Irvine, CSUF, Montana State Univ. n' Stanford Univ. Two of their bro n' sis are deaf graduated from gally. They are different perspective of hearing loss. They're not the same typical language.
 
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