Technological progress: better hearing than normal hearing

jillio said:
Nope. You have never distinquished the difference. All one and the same to you.
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Ah but he has many times, you just do not get it or more likely you do get it but do not want to admit it. Which one is it?
 
There are many (several people on this board) deaf people who are content both with being deaf and also being able to hear. These concepts are not mutually exclusive.
Rick
 
rick48 said:
Ah but he has many times, you just do not get it or more likely you do get it but do not want to admit it. Which one is it?
rick48 said:
There are many (several people on this board) deaf people who are content both with being deaf and also being able to hear. These concepts are not mutually exclusive.
Rick
jillio said:
:laugh2:
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Yes... I thought it was funny as well that you didn't realise that..... But that's OK.. you cannot remember or know everything...

I'll explain it again to you...

The motivation for many, perhaps even most, hearing parents that have a child that is (born) deaf is to let the child hear. To give the child the ability to hear like they can hear. To be able to communicate like they do, like their relatives do..
Many years ago, this was not an option. The only way to stay in good communication with your child was to use sign language, cued speech or other ways of communication... With learning to communicate you learn to love the language... As you do probably..

"Hate" deafness is something a deaf person could do.. Not a hearing person.. (Unless he/she has been deaf)

But I can see that you like to project your vision of "they have to hate deafness" regarding parents of deaf children that choose CI for their children. It scores huge points, and you like that. Apparently, you need that.
That's OK..

For me, I can see that Lotte would have done great growing up deaf, without CI.. That we would have been fluent in NSL & NGT, that her brother and sister would have been fluent in those sign languages...
Lotte would have loved her grandparents... even though she would have limited communication with them. Lotte would have loved our friends... even though she would have limited communication with them. She would have played with the kids in the street.. even though she would have limited communication with them. She would be able to do almost anything she would like.. even though she would have limited communication with the rest of the world...
She would be great. We would be proud.
Deafness is something we have imagined...

Now.. she can hear... We made that choice for her. And not because we "hate deafness" but because we "love hearing"... btw.. so does Lotte..
 
Cloggy said:
The motivation for many, perhaps even most, hearing parents that have a child that is (born) deaf is to let the child hear. To give the child the ability to hear like they can hear. To be able to communicate like they do, like their relatives do..
Many years ago, this was not an option. The only way to stay in good communication with your child was to use sign language, cued speech or other ways of communication... With learning to communicate you learn to love the language... As you do probably..

"Hate" deafness is something a deaf person could do.. Not a hearing person.. (Unless he/she has been deaf)

But I can see that you like to project your vision of "they have to hate deafness" regarding parents of deaf children that choose CI for their children. It scores huge points, and you like that. Apparently, you need that.
That's OK..

For me, I can see that Lotte would have done great growing up deaf, without CI.. That we would have been fluent in NSL & NGT, that her brother and sister would have been fluent in those sign languages...
Lotte would have loved her grandparents... even though she would have limited communication with them. Lotte would have loved our friends... even though she would have limited communication with them. She would have played with the kids in the street.. even though she would have limited communication with them. She would be able to do almost anything she would like.. even though she would have limited communication with the rest of the world...
She would be great. We would be proud.
Deafness is something we have imagined...

Now.. she can hear... We made that choice for her. And not because we "hate deafness" but because we "love hearing"... btw.. so does Lotte..
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Um not quite. You're assuming that the hearing a CI/HA gives is enough to fully and completely access the hearing world. Deaf and hoh people CAN and DO "hear" but we do not and cannot hear like hearing people. Even I don't, and I have a conductive loss. We hear like HOH people. HOH does NOT equate with perfect hearing. We get some of the advantages, yes. But we can never ever ever know what it's like to be hearing as a hearing person. Fake hearing is never going to be as good as hearing person hearing. It would be like expecting a legally blind person to enjoy the advantages of the sighted world simply b/c they can see better then a totally blind person. I am talking from the perspective of a HOH person. Someone who CAN and does like to hear......heck I love listening to music, singing and dancing. But I enjoy them as a HOH person, NOT a hearing person. And you're also assuming that being able to speak will create unfettered access to the hearing world. Many dhh kids can speak well, especially early on.....but as research has indicated they peak at fourth grade, and tend to have major social emotional issues.
 
Cloggy, were you aware that oralism is NOT NEW? There have been severe and profound kids oralized (and who had decent speech understanding with hearing aids) for decades. Yes, totally deaf kids or kids with poor speech understanding with HAs didn't benifit....but oral only has been alive and well especially with HOH kids. And trust me, this generation of CI kids will encounter the same things that oral only and mainstreamed to the max kids have for decades. Yes, this generation doesn't have severe " gotta send them off to Clarke/CID/St. Joseph's to board at 5 or 6 language issues.....but just wait til this generation hits the fourth grade ceiling. It will happen. Even a lot of audilogically HOH kids have major issues orally and in the mainstream!
 
Cloggy (and other hearing parents) Yes, your little kids are doing well. But, I predict both that a lot of the oral and mainstreamed kids will plautau and start to struggle. You right now are just realy dazzled by the fact that your kid is speaking, and superfically interacting with the hearing kids. Just wait awhile. Many of OUR parents thought the exact same thing...that we were doing well orally and in the mainstream and didn't need ASL or specialized classrooms/schooling.
One thing that ALL parents of dhh kids should keep in mind is the specialized school/classroom/program option. It should be on the table for ALL dhh kids, especially for middle and high school. Those are times of life that are VERY difficult, both academicly and socially. I predict that a lot of the CI kids who are doing "well" will find out that they could have gone to Deaf School.
The thing is Cloggy I know you're excited about the fact that your child is doing well orally and can parcipate somewhat in hearing person's culture....but the hearing from a CI or hearing aid does not make a deaf kid hearing. Even the superstars tend to have major issues socially and in noisy situtuions/ non one on one situtions.
 
Mountain Man said:
The audist has spoken. :roll:

"I don't hate blacks, I just love white people."
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Interesting comparison... and you came up with this all by yourself?
And.. how is this "audist"? Another word you heard somewhere and felt it would be good to throw in?
Do you even know what it is?

However, back to your post:
the right comparison would be:
"I don't hate being black. I cannot hate it because I am not black. I am white.."

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Buffalo said:
So you love hearing and hate the deafness in Lotte????
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No.

I said that since I am not deaf, I cannot hate it..
I could fear it, or be indifferent about it...

The way you want to mis-interpret it says it all.... For some reason you really need to believe that deafness is to be hated by people that can hear..
Do you really hate your deafness that much that you need to love it?
 
deafdyke said:
Um not quite. You're assuming that the hearing a CI/HA gives is enough to fully and completely access the hearing world. Deaf and hoh people CAN and DO "hear" but we do not and cannot hear like hearing people. Even I don't, and I have a conductive loss. We hear like HOH people. HOH does NOT equate with perfect hearing. We get some of the advantages, yes. But we can never ever ever know what it's like to be hearing as a hearing person. Fake hearing is never going to be as good as hearing person hearing. It would be like expecting a legally blind person to enjoy the advantages of the sighted world simply b/c they can see better then a totally blind person. I am talking from the perspective of a HOH person. Someone who CAN and does like to hear......heck I love listening to music, singing and dancing. But I enjoy them as a HOH person, NOT a hearing person. And you're also assuming that being able to speak will create unfettered access to the hearing world. Many dhh kids can speak well, especially early on.....but as research has indicated they peak at fourth grade, and tend to have major social emotional issues.
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Deja Vu.... and still no definition of "deaf".. For you "deaf" ranges from hearing nothing to hearing enough...
And it must be difficult, since there is no such thing as "legally deaf".

About "Fake Hearing"... How comes that when Lotte imitates a cat... it sounds like a cat?
 
deafdyke said:
Cloggy (and other hearing parents) Yes, your little kids are doing well. But, I predict both that a lot of the oral and mainstreamed kids will plautau and start to struggle. You right now are just realy dazzled by the fact that your kid is speaking, and superfically interacting with the hearing kids. Just wait awhile. Many of OUR parents thought the exact same thing...that we were doing well orally and in the mainstream and didn't need ASL or specialized classrooms/schooling.
One thing that ALL parents of dhh kids should keep in mind is the specialized school/classroom/program option. It should be on the table for ALL dhh kids, especially for middle and high school. Those are times of life that are VERY difficult, both academicly and socially. I predict that a lot of the CI kids who are doing "well" will find out that they could have gone to Deaf School.
The thing is Cloggy I know you're excited about the fact that your child is doing well orally and can parcipate somewhat in hearing person's culture....but the hearing from a CI or hearing aid does not make a deaf kid hearing. Even the superstars tend to have major issues socially and in noisy situtuions/ non one on one situtions.
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Of course Lotte has her problems at school.
But have a look around at the deaf kids that went to Deaf school... Where are they now..?
And don't work back from successfull deaf people and look where they came from. Work the other way. Take a class from 10 years ago, and see where they are now...

Besides "parcipate somewhat" .. what a misinterpretation... :roll:

Wonder which "superstars" you are looking at...
 
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Cloggy said:
Of course Lotte has her problems at school.
But have a look around at the deaf kids that went to Deaf school... Where are they now..?
And don't work back from successfull deaf people and look where they came from. Work the other way. Take a class from 10 years ago, and see where they are now...

Besides "parcipate somewhat" .. what a misinterpretation... :roll:

Wonder which "superstarts" you are looking at...
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I know many deaf kids who went to Deaf schools that have ended up with Master degrees and Ph.D.'s and are successful professionals in their field.:cool2: Success is much more likely when coming from a deaf school than from the mainstream, for any number of reasons. You are so very misinformed regarding these topics.
 
jillio said:
I know many deaf kids who went to Deaf schools that have ended up with Master degrees and Ph.D.'s and are successful professionals in their field.:cool2: Success is much more likely when coming from a deaf school than from the mainstream, for any number of reasons. You are so very misinformed regarding these topics.
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Jillio you are in the USA; Cloggy is in Norway. Do you know how the systems in the two countries compare?
 
Norway always ranks higher than the United States in education. Funny because there seems to be a lack of education from this particular person.
 
Jane B. said:
Jillio you are in the USA; Cloggy is in Norway. Do you know how the systems in the two countries compare?
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Yes, Jane B, I do. I have made it my business to extensively research deaf education in many places in the world.

I am well aware that Cloggy is from Norway. Cloggy has quite a history here at AD.
 
jillio said:
Yes, Jane B, I do. I have made it my business to extensively research deaf education in many places in the world.

I am well aware that Cloggy is from Norway. Cloggy has quite a history here at AD.
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Yep. He came to AD before I did.
 
jillio said:
I know many deaf kids who went to Deaf schools that have ended up with Master degrees and Ph.D.'s and are successful professionals in their field.:cool2: Success is much more likely when coming from a deaf school than from the mainstream, for any number of reasons. You are so very misinformed regarding these topics.
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That's becuz they got free tuitions from ssi gov't than hoh from mainstream.
 
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