Technological progress: better hearing than normal hearing

Cloggy said:
Interesting and important finding....

Effect of Postsecondary Education on the Economic Status of Persons Who Are Deaf or Hard of Hearing
Sara Schley*,1, Gerard G. Walter1, Robert R. Weathers II2, Jeffrey Hemmeter2, John C. Hennessey2 and Richard V. Burkhauser3

Abstract

This article examines the effect that postsecondary education has on earnings and the duration of time spent in the Social Security disability programs for young persons who are deaf or hard of hearing. Our hypothesis is that investments in postsecondary training increase the likelihood of employment for persons who are deaf or hard of hearing and thus reduce dependency on disability-related income support programs. A longitudinal data set based upon records from the National Technical Institute for the Deaf and Social Security administrative records is used for this analysis. We find that those who graduate, even those who graduate with vocational degrees, experience significant earnings benefits and reductions in the duration of time spent on federal disability programs when compared with those who do not graduate with a degree. This finding suggests that reductions in the duration of time spent on Social Security programs are not limited to those with the highest level of scholastic aptitude and that investments in post-secondary education can benefit a broad group of deaf and hard-of-hearing persons. In addition, the data show that individuals who attend college, but withdraw before graduation, fair no better economically than individuals who never attended college.
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Abstracts are useless to support a position.:roll:

The bolded would be true for the hearing population as well. See the limitations that are already obvious just from the abstract? Heavens knows how many limitations and flaws would be discovered by reading the methods section of the research paper.
 
jillio said:
Abstracts are useless to support a position.:roll:

The bolded would be true for the hearing population as well. See the limitations that are already obvious just from the abstract? Heavens knows how many limitations and flaws would be discovered by reading the methods section of the research paper.
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I was a full-time college student, I never once thought of quitting. I made the honours list. I attended all of the classes except for one day when I had to attend my grandfather's funeral. I went to a school for the deaf.
 
Cloggy, in addition, you're assuming that the severe-profound group were ASL'd and Deaf schooled. Not quite. Even in the 80's quite a few were oralized.....heck the dorms at CID/Clarke and St. Joseph's were full. Besides most kids in the 80's and 90's were mainstreamed. I think that says a lot!
 
Oh and rick, if CI and oral and mainstreamed kids do so well socially, then how come social issues are a HUGE HUGE thing at the Clarke School for the Deaf conference? Even a lot of the kids who just need minimal accomondations, still have major social emotional issues.
 
and nevertheless Cloggy you're acting like this is the 40's and oral only and mainstreaming is so innovative. You're not thinking that a lot of the low acheivers may also be oral and mainstreamed as well! Heck, I'm sure if you looked at the stats for HOH kids, you might find simlair reports....and that's what CI kids are HOH kids.
 
GrendelQ said:
It's not a Binary equation, or a zero sum game -- to say you "love" something doesn't mean you 'hate' everything else. I might "love" swimming in the ocean, dancing in the moonlight, and a daughter, but that doesn't mean I "hate" hiking in the mountains, riding in sunlight, and a son. As Rick said, some concepts can be held together and are not mutually exclusive. My daughter might love being a deaf person AND love her ability to access sounds, to 'hear' with the help of CIs without any conflict. And unlike most, hearing or deaf, she can decide if she wants to hear things or not at any given time and turn sound on and off. But from what we've discussed and what i've observed, She may think about these things, but I think she's far more focused on interacting with the world she senses around her than on navel- gazing ( pondering whether or not she loves or hates her eyesight, sense of taste, hearing, feeling, etc.). She IS chinese, american, deaf, 5yearsold, artist, gymnast, massachusetts-grown, vegetarian, etc., and doesn't spend a lot of effort judging how much she loves/hates being who she is. That effort is put to deciding what she likes to /wants to do (or not do), and who she is is reflected in those actions.
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Lovely , evocative writing. I can almost see the little lambs skipping through the meadow...
 
posts from hell said:
Like I said.... It already has been demonstrated in Indiana and Maryland. As a matter of fact, Indiana School for the Deaf's superintendent was blocked from using the FOIA because he proved that long time ISD students actually fared better than these who were in mainstream. It's not hard to find statistics on these who are in the mainstream - all you have to do here is to narrow it down to these who are: 1.) On an IEP, 2.) Deaf.

Before you even think of it... Don't give me the run around saying you wonder how many of "Deaf/HOH" are not on the IEP. School districts here WANTS more kids to be on the IEP. Reason: money.

Not only that. I've also provided links and research on this forum showing you guys this.

Now, my question to you, Cloggy, would be "what do you category consider these with CI's in?"
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Agreed 100% Cloggy, mainstreaming/inclusion is based on an old assumption....Very old. Meaning based on the kids who are now grandparents. Back in the late 60's/early 70's, a lot of kids who were mainstreamed from Clarke/ Perkins (the school for the blind here in MA)
or other special schools, started doing very very well. The experts thought wholesale mainstreaming would benifit the student population as a whole without stopping to think that most mainstreamed kids wouldn't get the stuff available in a good school for the deaf or blind or whatever.
 
GrendelQ said:
It's not a Binary equation, or a zero sum game -- to say you "love" something doesn't mean you 'hate' everything else. I might "love" swimming in the ocean, dancing in the moonlight, and a daughter, but that doesn't mean I "hate" hiking in the mountains, riding in sunlight, and a son. As Rick said, some concepts can be held together and are not mutually exclusive. My daughter might love being a deaf person AND love her ability to access sounds, to 'hear' with the help of CIs without any conflict. And unlike most, hearing or deaf, she can decide if she wants to hear things or not at any given time and turn sound on and off. But from what we've discussed and what i've observed, She may think about these things, but I think she's far more focused on interacting with the world she senses around her than on navel- gazing ( pondering whether or not she loves or hates her eyesight, sense of taste, hearing, feeling, etc.). She IS chinese, american, deaf, 5yearsold, artist, gymnast, massachusetts-grown, vegetarian, etc., and doesn't spend a lot of effort judging how much she loves/hates being who she is. That effort is put to deciding what she likes to /wants to do (or not do), and who she is is reflected in those actions.
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Fantastic post. The only thing I can find fault with is that you willingly exposing her to Red Sox nation!!
Rick
 
Blah blah..hearing is better than deaf..yea, we know that about you oralists. Nothing new.
 
GrendelQ said:
It's not a Binary equation, or a zero sum game -- to say you "love" something doesn't mean you 'hate' everything else. I might "love" swimming in the ocean, dancing in the moonlight, and a daughter, but that doesn't mean I "hate" hiking in the mountains, riding in sunlight, and a son.
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This is rather naive. We're talking about cultures, not personal preferences. To say, "I love going to the beach," is not in the same sphere of thought as, "I love being white," or "I love being hearing." There is a lot of subtext behind the latter two phrases that you would not typically find in the former phrase.
 
deafdyke said:
Oh and rick, if CI and oral and mainstreamed kids do so well socially, then how come social issues are a HUGE HUGE thing at the Clarke School for the Deaf conference? Even a lot of the kids who just need minimal accomondations, still have major social emotional issues.
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If social issues are such a HUGE Huge thing at Clarke then how come at their recent 32nd Annual Conference on Mainstreaming Children with Hearing Loss" there was only one mini-session devoted to social issues during a two day conference?

I just do not believe that most of what you post is accurate. You may believe it and wish and hope it to be true but wishing and hoping does not turn what is inaccurate into the truth.

Contrary to your unsubstantiated assertion, the philosophy of Clarke is not to accept students from the mainstream but to prepare them to successfully enter the mainstream alongside their hearing peers.

Contrary to your unsubstantiated assertion, my experience with the many ci kids around my daughter's age where we live is not a single one left the mainstream for a deaf or Deaf school. In fact, several actually left the local Deaf schools and transferred into the mainstream because they were receiving an inferior and substandard education at the Deaf schools.

Contrary to your unsubstantiated assertion, although you attempt to discount and marginalize what my daughter has accomplished by labeling her a "superstar" and inaccurately claiming she is different from her ci peers you are inaccurate. Having known and personally observed hundreds of ci kids, she is not a "superstar" but the norm, of those kids implanted close to the onset of their deafness, who had at least one dedicated and involved parent and who received appropriate S&L therapy and oral language immersion.

I could go on and on but it is pointless as you just do not get it, never have and never will.
 
MM, they have no respect for Deaf culture after the years of putting ASL and living the Deaf life down. Not worth to try to point anything out to them.
 
What did I say? The Deaf life is inferior to them.
 
Frisky Feline said:
jillio is correct. SSI program is only to provide for undergrad students, not grad students. Most i know they had been applied for the grants, or any many funds on their own.
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Actually that is incorrect, SSI does not directly provide undergrad or grad students with tuition. Tuition can be obtained in most cases through VR which is state mandated. SSI after age 21 is based on income earned in each calendar and will gradually phase out after approximately $1500-2000 is earned in a month.
 
rick48 said:
Actually that is incorrect, SSI does not directly provide undergrad or grad students with tuition. Tuition can be obtained in most cases through VR which is state mandated. SSI after age 21 is based on income earned and gradually eases out after approximately $1500-2000 earned in a month.
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looooooooooooooooooolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

keep going.
 
jillio said:
Well, let's be fair. We don't even know that his daughter had an extraordinarily easy time in the mainstream. We haven't heard that from her at all. We simply heard it from her father, who has already demonstrated an extreme bias. As with most cases, we would probably hear a different story coming directly from her. In fact, an article of unpublished research posted a short while ago confirmed that parents overestimate the ease with which their children are functioning in the mainstream. Of course, that really came as no surprise.
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The reaction you attempted to provoke by referencing my daughter has failed as your feeble attempt to get to me through my daughter was both transparent and predictable.

Being called biased by a hearing woman who thinks she is deaf, who after a quarter of a century knows less than 20 people with implants, none of them children, who spends hours each day on a cochlear implant forum when she denied her own child an implant and who is not only against cochlear implants for children but has called them a form of torture is truly laughable. If you want to see someone who is biased, just look in a mirror.

Regarding the balanced research that Cloggy posted and you referenced, you glossed over some of its findings:

"However, although parents and teachers were reporting on children drawn from the same population...these two groups of respondents were not necessarily reporting on the same children in each case."
or
"Several variables related to oral communication and mainstream placement were shown to predict positive outcomes in many of the domains in both parent and teacher survey findings."
or
"Consistent with other studies, a younger age at implantation was found to be a predictor of positive communication and social outcomes. The child having a bilateral implant was predictive of positive communication, social, and academic outcomes in parent reports and of future life outcomes in teacher reports, noteworthy findings."
or
"In addition, teachers having high levels of communication with other professionals, such as audiologists and speech pathologists, about child's use of and progress with the cochlear implant predicted positive outcomes in all domains."
 
posts from hell said:
Already have proven they're better than the mainstream counterparts. (According to the FOIA information from states of Indiana and Maryland.

Now, wheres your information coming from, Fluffmouth?

By the way, when you were on a vacation from AllDeaf - I wanted to raise a few questions for ya to answer. Let me know if you want me to do so.
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Fluffmouth???

That was so lame that I was too embarrassed to even report the post for name calling.

Speaking of vacations from AD, since you too are back from your forced vacation don't you think its time to change your tagline as it is no longer true?

As to what you have proven, you did not articulate any point but I did check ISD's 2010 ISTEP+/Assessment scores and across the board if they were not the lowest in the state they were close to the bottom.

Save your questions for someone else as I have found you have nothing of interest or anything new to add to these discussions.
 
Deaf children of Deaf parents or hearing parents whoi were willing to learn their language have been shown to have higher literacy skills, higher self-esteem, and so forth. I have read that in research PLUS I have seen that in real life.

We all know that you, people, equate to hearing as having a better life so why dont you leave this forum and go to your "better" world and leave our world alone?
 
rick48 said:
Fluffmouth???

That was so lame that I was too embarrassed to even report the post for name calling.

Speaking of vacations from AD, since you too are back from your forced vacation don't you think its time to change your tagline as it is no longer true?

As to what you have proven, you did not articulate any point but I did check ISD's 2010 ISTEP+/Assessment scores and across the board if they were not the lowest in the state they were close to the bottom.

Save your questions for someone else as I have found you have nothing of interest or anything new to add to these discussions.
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What forced vacation?? :)

Also, these questions I'd love to ask....

You said that your daughter KNOWS ASL... And that was after 1 class in a college you claim. I don't believe you.

You're leaving quite a significant amount of information out about your daughter, and we all can see it. That and the fact you're more than happy to associate yourself with a person who is a pathological liar lying to the community speaks a lot on your behalf.

I strongly suggest you to just leave this forum - afterall it serves you no purpose other than selfish intentions.
 
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