Spoooooooky stuff...

[Reba]

Read the first chapter of Ezekiel. The four living creatures, where did they come from? Why did they have a "terrible crystal" covering their faces?

Copy and paste this post to a new thread, and we can continue the discussion. We're getting too far afield in this one.

 

[Reba]

Well said Banjo!

The bible is incomplete. There are so many versions and ALL of them were written by humans. If one takes a Catholic version and a Protestant version then one will see that there are books included in the Catholic version that have been removed from the Protestant version....which I was given to understand is a big ol' no-no. (Yes, I am VERY familiar with the bible..I had it ground into me as a child...one of the contributing factors to my utter loathing of all man-made religions...and they are ALL man-made.) It is at best a some what accurate historical document.While I am aware that this is considered by some here to be only my opinion...it is an opinion shared by hundreds of thousands of people. Frankly, there is more evidence for the existence of alien beings than there is for the existence of Jesus. A few stories are not proof or evidence. I have always found it to be a source of amazement that people find it easier to believe that an amorphous, invisible god-being basically made a mud doll, also known as a golem, and turned it into a human being; (which is pretty fanciful and fantastical by most anyone's standards), than in the existence of advanced intelligent life out in the cosmos that had a hand in the genetic manipulation and creation of our species. Hells bells, even the Christian bible makes the reference to several "gods"...in the very first chapter of Genesis...and nothing is said about it being that "holy trinity" thing either. Do we not have the knowledge and capability of genetic manipulation? Can we not manipulate the DNA of any living thing, including humans, now? Does not even the Old Testament book of Ecclesiastes say there is nothing new under the sun? The bible is full of stories that sound remarkably like modern alien abduction scenarios and encounters with beings that look like us only bigger. (Made in their image perhaps?)

Blind faith is just blind gullibility. Faith without something to base it on has no merit. Real faith, or belief in something or someone, has to be based on something real and tangible. For example, many people have faith in the government, although there is plenty of proof that people should NOT put their faith and trust in anything the government or the media says. However, putting you faith in the abilities of someone who has proven themselves worthy of such trust is done because there is tangible evidence that they have given you reason to do so.

The term "god" merely means "ruler" or "over lord or over seer"....(which makes it a job title and description...NOT a name.:roll Millions of people have seen UFOs. Many more have reported having experiences involving humanoid beings that can not be so easily dismissed. Fact is, people who refuse to accept that anything is possible outside of their narrow point of view and fanatical ideology does so out of fear. Fear that they would find out that everything they cling so staunchly is just a lot of lies and that they have been made fools of. That anyone would be so egotistical to think that there is only "one true religion" is appalling. There is no such thing. The arrogant notion that humans are the only intelligent life in this vast universe is absurd. The idea that we are the pinnacle of creation is nothing more than human arrogance as well. We are not that special in the big scheme of things. Every living thing has a spirit and soul. If one had the eyes to see the life force that surrounds every living creature, including the planet we live on, then perhaps the way humanity thinks about our place in the universe would change and we start viewing even the universe as the living entity it is, and just perhaps, give all living things the respect that humanity seems to think that only it is entitled to.

This is NOT a religious thread. I would ask that such discussions be kept to threads in which they are relevant and stick to the subject of the thread. Thanks.

If you copy and paste this post to a new thread, I will be happy to continue the discussion there rather than in this thread.

 

[mizwytch]

Protestants removed the Apocrypha and the Deuterocanonical books which the catholics still reference.

They both use the KJV. However, the KJV was not the first English translation of Hebrew text; The Coverdale Bible was.

In the Hebrew Genesis, there was a creation before man.

Thank you.

Whether anyone in particular would believe it or not, I have several translations of the christian bible on my shelves...along with the Apocrypha and the Deuterocanonical texts....right along with my books on Hinduism, Catholicism, Wicca, Buddhism, etc. Yes, I am "pagan" but I use the term because humans seem to require labels. I am at best a very eclectic pagan.

I have come to believe there is a Source for all of Creation...but do I have any faith in gods of any sort, NO. Do I believe in some all powerful god who gives a damn about anything that goes on just this one single planet and the arrogant homosapien-sapiens that trash it on a daily basis? NO. What do I believe? That while all these religions may have a kernel of truth at their core...they are all twisted versions of the real story, one that began millions of years ago. I believe that the soul purpose of life is merely to be. People whining and pleading for some invisible god to fix their mistakes just shows how lazy and unwilling most people are when it comes to taking responsibility for their own actions or for the care and consideration of all our fellow creatures whether human or otherwise. Most of us are unwilling to "get involved" and hope like hell anyone but themselves will take the responsibility.

Sorry, but I prefer to acknowledge things that I know are real. Things I have experienced and dealt with directly...which are considered to be, yes, paranormal in nature. Never had any help from any god or from keeping an extremely narrow minded point of view. Since there is an insistence on bring religion into this thread, might I suggest some particularly enlightening reading? Holy Blood, Holy Grail and all of Zechariah Sitchin's series of books. Honestly, given the turn of mind by a few here, I don't really expect that this challenge will be taken up by many.

 

[mizwytch]

If you copy and paste this post to a new thread, I will be happy to continue the discussion there rather than in this thread.

As I understood the terms and rules of joining the forum, religious discussions are not allowed. They are against the rules. You have seemed to insist on breaking the rules in spite of my insistence on keeping to the subject of the thread.

Might I ask why this is?

 

[Reba]

As I understood the terms and rules of joining the forum, religious discussions are not allowed. They are against the rules. You have seemed to insist on breaking the rules in spite of my insistence on keeping to the subject of the thread.

Might I ask why this is?

I'm trying to keep it out of your thread. That's why I haven't yet responded to the posts. I suggested we take this discussion to another thread so as to not railroad this one.

If you prefer that I not respond and let you and others continue to post erroneous information without allowing both sides to be given, then I guess I'm stuck.

I figured since you posted about Bible versions and gods vs. God, etc., that I could respond to those posts. No?

 

[mizwytch]

I'm trying to keep it out of your thread. That's why I haven't yet responded to the posts. I suggested we take this discussion to another thread so as to not railroad this one.

If you prefer that I not respond and let you and others continue to post erroneous information without allowing both sides to be given, then I guess I'm stuck.

I figured since you posted about Bible versions and gods vs. God, etc., that I could respond to those posts. No?

*sigh* I just wanted to talk about people's personal experiences with things that are considered to be "unexplainable". I only responded because of the insistence on bringing up issues that had nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

Just because you have not had experiences that others have does not make the information "erroneous"...not very nice to call people liars when the only basis for doing so seems to be based on the "I'm right because I've got "god" on my side" point of view.

You still not have answered my question as to why it is that when the forum rules clearly stated that religious discussions are NOT allowed that you insist on doing so anyway. As far as I know there is no where on the forum to take such a discussion to. The last time I was invited to partake in a forum where the christian religion and their particular bible was the subject I was assaulted by those whom had decided that I and my points of view were exceedingly unwelcome and that I did not belong. The Admin came down on them all, as he was the one who invited me for the purpose of getting people to use some logic and reason to really think about what they claimed to believe. He himself is a christian, but a very open-minded one. When the site was sold I was banned from it by the one person who had been most vocal against me stating that "Her and her kind really have no place in such discussions..." She was the one who bought the site...with, I believe, for the soul purpose of keeping me and "my kind" from being allowed in such discussions.

I do not wish to have this thread locked or removed because of breaking the rules. I appreciate you being willing to not derail the thread any further.

I have no quarrel with you Reba. I do suspect, however, that even if this discussion was taken else where you would not ever be open to anything I would have to say. I would imagine that you feel it your duty to proselytize and convert people to your point of view, religious beliefs and end of the pew. I trod that path in my younger days...and that time of my life was the most utterly miserable and demeaning existence. Once I decided to quit eating the bullshit that so many "well intentioned" christians were feeding me, and realized that ANY god who was worth worshiping would accept me just the way I had been born..."strange" gifts and all, things got loads better. My life is now full of a joy and peace that goes to the very heart of my being. I don't live in fear of anything..not even death because I have been dead before, (obviously I came back), which was part of brought on such changes in my life and my beliefs.

You are quite welcome to continue to be a part of this thread. Perhaps asking people more about what their paranormal experiences were like for them would be a good start.

 

[Jiro]

As I understood the terms and rules of joining the forum, religious discussions are not allowed. They are against the rules. You have seemed to insist on breaking the rules in spite of my insistence on keeping to the subject of the thread.

Might I ask why this is?

if you look back - it is Steinhauer who actually started the whole religious thing. Reba is merely correcting Steinhauer's erroneous posts about Bible and such.

 

[Jiro]

Thank you.

Whether anyone in particular would believe it or not, I have several translations of the christian bible on my shelves...along with the Apocrypha and the Deuterocanonical texts....right along with my books on Hinduism, Catholicism, Wicca, Buddhism, etc. Yes, I am "pagan" but I use the term because humans seem to require labels. I am at best a very eclectic pagan.

I have come to believe there is a Source for all of Creation...but do I have any faith in gods of any sort, NO. Do I believe in some all powerful god who gives a damn about anything that goes on just this one single planet and the arrogant homosapien-sapiens that trash it on a daily basis? NO. What do I believe? That while all these religions may have a kernel of truth at their core...they are all twisted versions of the real story, one that began millions of years ago. I believe that the soul purpose of life is merely to be. People whining and pleading for some invisible god to fix their mistakes just shows how lazy and unwilling most people are when it comes to taking responsibility for their own actions or for the care and consideration of all our fellow creatures whether human or otherwise. Most of us are unwilling to "get involved" and hope like hell anyone but themselves will take the responsibility.

Sorry, but I prefer to acknowledge things that I know are real. Things I have experienced and dealt with directly...which are considered to be, yes, paranormal in nature. Never had any help from any god or from keeping an extremely narrow minded point of view. Since there is an insistence on bring religion into this thread, might I suggest some particularly enlightening reading? Holy Blood, Holy Grail and all of Zechariah Sitchin's series of books. Honestly, given the turn of mind by a few here, I don't really expect that this challenge will be taken up by many.

*sigh* I just wanted to talk about people's personal experiences with things that are considered to be "unexplainable". I only responded because of the insistence on bringing up issues that had nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

Just because you have not had experiences that others have does not make the information "erroneous"...not very nice to call people liars when the only basis for doing so seems to be based on the "I'm right because I've got "god" on my side" point of view.

You still not have answered my question as to why it is that when the forum rules clearly stated that religious discussions are NOT allowed that you insist on doing so anyway. As far as I know there is no where on the forum to take such a discussion to. The last time I was invited to partake in a forum where the christian religion and their particular bible was the subject I was assaulted by those whom had decided that I and my points of view were exceedingly unwelcome and that I did not belong. The Admin came down on them all, as he was the one who invited me for the purpose of getting people to use some logic and reason to really think about what they claimed to believe. He himself is a christian, but a very open-minded one. When the site was sold I was banned from it by the one person who had been most vocal against me stating that "Her and her kind really have no place in such discussions..." She was the one who bought the site...with, I believe, for the soul purpose of keeping me and "my kind" from being allowed in such discussions.

I do not wish to have this thread locked or removed because of breaking the rules. I appreciate you being willing to not derail the thread any further.

I have no quarrel with you Reba. I do suspect, however, that even if this discussion was taken else where you would not ever be open to anything I would have to say. I would imagine that you feel it your duty to proselytize and convert people to your point of view, religious beliefs and end of the pew. I trod that path in my younger days...and that time of my life was the most utterly miserable and demeaning existence. Once I decided to quit eating the bullshit that so many "well intentioned" christians were feeding me, and realized that ANY god who was worth worshiping would accept me just the way I had been born..."strange" gifts and all, things got loads better. My life is now full of a joy and peace that goes to the very heart of my being. I don't live in fear of anything..not even death because I have been dead before, (obviously I came back), which was part of brought on such changes in my life and my beliefs.

You are quite welcome to continue to be a part of this thread. Perhaps asking people more about what their paranormal experiences were like for them would be a good start.

so you're saying you're looking for non-religious explanation for unexplainable thing even though it is so far-fetched?

if that's the case, I don't know what other way to explain the unexplainable thing except science. there are basically only 3 things that can explain the unexplainable - science, religion, and imagination

 

[Jiro]

btw mizwytch - I explained a scientific part for unexplained event in the past in your other thread at the last 2 paragraphs - http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-education/84814-obtaining-financial-aid-school.html#post1722113

I thought that was cool that scientists were able to figure out why there are growing numbers of claims that when on the verge of death, people say they saw light or a vague figure that may resembles God

 

[mizwytch]

btw mizwytch - I explained a scientific part for unexplained event in the past in your other thread at the last 2 paragraphs - http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-education/84814-obtaining-financial-aid-school.html#post1722113

I thought that was cool that scientists were able to figure out why there are growing numbers of claims that when on the verge of death, people say they saw light or a vague figure that may resembles God

I never said nor claimed I saw a figure or a 'god'...vague or otherwise. Conventional science nor religion have the answers for everything. And accreditation just means that the credits earned are transferable to another school...it has no bearing on whether or not a school is legit. Just because Metaphysics isn't accepted by the main stream science community doesn't mean it's any less of a science either. As I recall, at one time the only "science" that was acceptable was whatever the Church said was acceptable....which included the world being flat and being the center of the universe. It was imagination that got intelligent folks thinking and brought about what you would term the "real" science of today. My point is that if you accept ANY part of any religious text concerning anything about the spiritual realm and otherwise, that can not be measured in a test tube, then you have to accept that there are things that not even conventional science can explain. Which means a more "unconventional" approach and form of science is needed.

In my experience people who do their damnedest to deny the existence of anything outside of the basic "norm"...do so out of fear. Fear that everything that they do not want to believe in is real and thus makes the world much more scary and uncontrollable place to live in. Just because one may have not experienced any extraordinary and unexplainable events in their life does not mean those who have are silly or overly imaginative.

 

[Beowulf]

btw mizwytch - I explained a scientific part for unexplained event in the past in your other thread at the last 2 paragraphs - http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-education/84814-obtaining-financial-aid-school.html#post1722113

I thought that was cool that scientists were able to figure out why there are growing numbers of claims that when on the verge of death, people say they saw light or a vague figure that may resembles God

Ummmm, that doesn't explain why I could see my sister discussing my x-rays in the next room with another doctor that time I almost kicked the bucket. They were in another room, with walls between us, and I recited their exact words and movements much to their astonishment. I also felt the grief of an old woman that lost her son in the hospital, which quickly turned to musical joy of birds flying over the complex. You get my drift. Do not tell me I am erroneous.

 

[mizwytch]

Ummmm, that doesn't explain why I could see my sister discussing my x-rays in the next room with another doctor that time I almost kicked the bucket. They were in another room, with walls between us, and I recited their exact words and movements much to their astonishment. I also felt the grief of an old woman that lost her son in the hospital, which quickly turned to musical joy of birds flying over the complex. You get my drift. Do not tell me I am erroneous.

 

[Steinhauer]

if you look back - it is Steinhauer who actually started the whole religious thing. Reba is merely correcting Steinhauer's erroneous posts about Bible and such.

yeah ... ummmm ... erroneous ... harumph!

Jiro, you were trying as you usually do, to make me appear to be crazy and wrong about everything.

Why don't you actually contribute to the discussion rather than attack a fellow Ad'er? It would be a nice change from what you normally do. Besides, two other AD'ers posted the exact same point I made ......

 

[mizwytch]

if you look back - it is Steinhauer who actually started the whole religious thing. Reba is merely correcting Steinhauer's erroneous posts about Bible and such.

Nope. I am assuming you are referring to the images he put in a post. He was keeping on the subject. Both images showed strange craft of some sort and no where in said post did he start spouting about who runs the universe or created it and so on.

Sorry, but I went back through all the early posts and he kept to the rules. She started veering this discussion towards religious dogma with this post:

There are others who don't agree with her conclusions, too.

It's interesting how people are more willing to believe that aliens from other planets are "out there" than to believe that God is in control of the universe.

And it went from there. And I have tried in vain to steer it back to the original topic. While looking back over the early posts I realized that several of the others who had started making posts on this thread seem to have quit doing so. Now, I do not know whether this is due to diminished interest, or maybe they have been put off due to just not wanting to feel like they are being dissed and called silly and/or feel like they are being attacked for posting their experiences. Would anyone care to comment or PM about this?

 

[mizwytch]

yeah ... ummmm ... erroneous ... harumph!

Jiro, you were trying as you usually do, to make me appear to be crazy and wrong about everything.

Why don't you actually contribute to the discussion rather than attack a fellow Ad'er? It would be a nice change from what you normally do. Besides, two other AD'ers posted the exact same point I made ......

WELL SAID!

 

[Beowulf]

]While looking back over the early posts I realized that several of the others who had started making posts on this thread seem to have quit doing so. Now, I do not know whether this is due to diminished interest, or maybe they have been put off due to just not wanting to feel like they are being dissed and called silly and/or feel like they are being attacked for posting their experiences. Would anyone care to comment or PM about this?

Welcome to Alldeaf. There could be more posts by others, but as you know by now, there are a few who make knee-jerk denials and make others afraid to contribute for fear of being publicly bashed.

 

[Reba]

*sigh* I just wanted to talk about people's personal experiences with things that are considered to be "unexplainable". I only responded because of the insistence on bringing up issues that had nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

Just because you have not had experiences that others have does not make the information "erroneous"...not very nice to call people liars when the only basis for doing so seems to be based on the "I'm right because I've got "god" on my side" point of view.

I did not call anyone liars.

I did not say, "I'm right because I've got 'god' on my side."

You still not have answered my question as to why it is that when the forum rules clearly stated that religious discussions are NOT allowed that you insist on doing so anyway.

If the rule applied to all sides of "religious" discussion that would be fair. But as long as other posters can make their statements about Christianity and the Bible, than it should be fair for me to respond.

As far as I know there is no where on the forum to take such a discussion to. The last time I was invited to partake in a forum where the christian religion and their particular bible was the subject I was assaulted by those whom had decided that I and my points of view were exceedingly unwelcome and that I did not belong.

I certainly don't support that. All I ask for is the opportunity to respond.

The Admin came down on them all, as he was the one who invited me for the purpose of getting people to use some logic and reason to really think about what they claimed to believe.

And to be fair, those who know what they believe and have thought about it should also be able to respond.

He himself is a christian, but a very open-minded one. When the site was sold I was banned from it by the one person who had been most vocal against me stating that "Her and her kind really have no place in such discussions..." She was the one who bought the site...with, I believe, for the soul purpose of keeping me and "my kind" from being allowed in such discussions.

I never recommend banning members. I totally stay out of that realm.

I do not wish to have this thread locked or removed because of breaking the rules. I appreciate you being willing to not derail the thread any further.

OK.

I have no quarrel with you Reba. I do suspect, however, that even if this discussion was taken else where you would not ever be open to anything I would have to say. I would imagine that you feel it your duty to proselytize and convert people to your point of view, religious beliefs and end of the pew.

I don't feel I should stay silent and let other ADers post only their negative viewpoints of Christianity. No other groups at AD have to stay zipped when it comes to others making false statements about their groups, whether they be about politics, CI's, ASL, homosexuals, computer OS, etc.

I trod that path in my younger days...and that time of my life was the most utterly miserable and demeaning existence. Once I decided to quit eating the bullshit that so many "well intentioned" christians were feeding me, and realized that ANY god who was worth worshiping would accept me just the way I had been born..."strange" gifts and all, things got loads better. My life is now full of a joy and peace that goes to the very heart of my being. I don't live in fear of anything..not even death because I have been dead before, (obviously I came back), which was part of brought on such changes in my life and my beliefs.

But you think it's OK to call the beliefs of Christians "bullshit?" I have never said that about any other ADer's beliefs.

You are quite welcome to continue to be a part of this thread. Perhaps asking people more about what their paranormal experiences were like for them would be a good start.

I don't need to ask because others already have.

They can do the same and ask me about my spiritual experiences but I certainly don't expect it.

 

[Jiro]

yeah ... ummmm ... erroneous ... harumph!

Jiro, you were trying as you usually do, to make me appear to be crazy and wrong about everything.

Why don't you actually contribute to the discussion rather than attack a fellow Ad'er? It would be a nice change from what you normally do. Besides, two other AD'ers posted the exact same point I made ......

um... I said your post was erroneous... not crazy. It is Reba who was correcting you, not I.

 

[Reba]

um... I said your post was erroneous... not crazy. It is Reba who was correcting you, not I.

And I certainly don't think Steinhauer is crazy!

Just because I don't agree with him (or anyone else, for that matter) doesn't mean I think there's something wrong with the individual.

 

[Jiro]

I never said nor claimed I saw a figure or a 'god'...vague or otherwise. Conventional science nor religion have the answers for everything. And accreditation just means that the credits earned are transferable to another school...it has no bearing on whether or not a school is legit. Just because Metaphysics isn't accepted by the main stream science community doesn't mean it's any less of a science either. As I recall, at one time the only "science" that was acceptable was whatever the Church said was acceptable....which included the world being flat and being the center of the universe. It was imagination that got intelligent folks thinking and brought about what you would term the "real" science of today. My point is that if you accept ANY part of any religious text concerning anything about the spiritual realm and otherwise, that can not be measured in a test tube, then you have to accept that there are things that not even conventional science can explain. Which means a more "unconventional" approach and form of science is needed.

In my experience people who do their damnedest to deny the existence of anything outside of the basic "norm"...do so out of fear. Fear that everything that they do not want to believe in is real and thus makes the world much more scary and uncontrollable place to live in. Just because one may have not experienced any extraordinary and unexplainable events in their life does not mean those who have are silly or overly imaginative.

I didn't say you saw a figure. I gave an example to how science can explain the unexplainable such as seeing a figure.

and accreditation does not merely mean the credits can be transferred to another college. It means the school's integrity and rigor are within highest standard for credibility purpose. I mean - if you apply for huge corporation... Applicant A got his business degree from accredited school like his local state school and Applicant B got his business degree from non-accredited school like say "The American Institute of Business". You get my point?

Metaphysics belongs to Philosophy major. There are plenty of colleges that do teach that. What I'm telling you is that you should expand your horizon to incorporate ALL perspectives.... a very well-rounded intellectual. Accredited college can give you that.

If you incorporate all knowledge from history, religion, medical science, philosophy, and psychology.... you can most likely come up with a very very sound explanation for the unexplainable. Why make yourself a narrow-mind person with a very limited view?

For example -
How did werewolf come into picture? if you look at history, medical science, etc... you will see that there is an extremely rare medical condition called hypertrichosis that makes a man grows hair all over his body. It is a well-documented case to this date and a "werewolf" man is currently living in Mexico. And then if you look at the literature and other field - you will see that people are creative human beings. You know that we humans tend to exaggerate it and then as it goes thru vineyard, it will eventually turn into a folklore. Hence.... a countless of movies and stories like Michael Fox as a werewolf and The Twilight Saga

If your field is limited to metaphysics, imagine what kind of theory you would come up to explain the werewolf theory.

Get what I'm saying? I'm not saying what you're pursuing is a farce and that you're opening yourself to being ridiculed by many. I understand that the disbelievers ridicule others because they are afraid of something that can't be explained. Some people resorted to religion to explain the unexplained and some to science and some to fictitious folklores. I, of course, am the science guy and I believe everything can be explained and as for unexplainable event - it's because we do not have an advanced understanding of science (hence it's a progressive field) and the time will come that it will be explained. I do acknowledge that a certain thing can never be explained and that it's something that a religion can explain it. I will just leave it at that