Snubbing the Deaf community?

[rockin'robin]

Unfortunately I had experinced the deaf community rejecting me for being too oral (even I can sign but I rely on lipreading not full BSL), since then I tried to be part of the community but sadly over few years i stopped going. The said person in OP may had encounter this experince.
After I was implanted I became more intergated into the community where there is many CI users, they are deaf, sign/speaks and lipreads.
I am now a TA at deaf school I remind them that Oral deafs, Signing deafs, Late deafen HA,CI, BAHA users etc all have same thing in common.... They are deaf and will need each other so they need to be more open minded and help each other regardless their experince.

You're so right! I've been rejected many times also, deafies thinking I'm hearing, because I lip read and my speech is still intact, even tho' I've been deaf many, many years! I'm not a fluent signer, and I'm not a fluent speaker. Those of us who are late-deafened suffer consequences too. Depression for a very long time, and when I found the Deaf Forums, I was so happy!

 

[Daredevel7]

It's also possible that they don't want to be lumped as part of a group. For example, my mom is proud of being a Cuban, but does not go around announcing that she is Cuban. One reason is because there are 'loud and proud' Cubans in Miami who are percieved to be low class. Not because they are proud but because of their attitudes and behavior. She does not want to be associated with them.

 

[violet]

It's also possible that they don't want to be lumped as part of a group. For example, my mom is proud of being a Cuban, but does not go around announcing that she is Cuban. One reason is because there are 'loud and proud' Cubans in Miami who are percieved to be low class. Not because they are proud but because of their attitudes and behavior. She does not want to be associated with them.

Yea.. same thing happens with mexicans.. I think it happens with any race.. religion or anything that makes you "different' in some way.

 

[nope]

I don't know - I guess I can see both sides. On one hand, it does seem like maybe she's lumping the Deaf Community together and doesn't want to be associated with them for whatever reason. On the other hand, it is her choice and I don't think it's fair to judge her decision without knowing her reasons. Maybe she really was rejected by the Deaf when she was younger. Could you really blame her for not desiring a repeat performance? Obviously, not all Deaf people are going to treat her the same way, but it's hard to ignore past experiences like that.
And there will always be people who are part of a group who don't necessarily identify with that group. My family is Irish, I grew up in Ireland, I speak Irish, but I'm not 'Irish enough' for a lot of Irish Americans. I think ethnic groups get that alot. You aren't hispanic enough, you aren't Indian enough, you aren't African enough. There will always be people who don't accept you because you aren't hardcore enough. I got the same thing when I was vegetarian from the vegans. Maybe she's been treated as if she's not Deaf enough.
I don't necessarily think she's entirely to blame for her attitudes without knowing her history. Who here can't identify with being treated poorly by a group? It's up to us to look past the experience and understand that not everyone will treat us the same way, but depending upon the extent of the negative experience, that might not always be possible.

 

[jillio]

I think it happens daily with people who don't want to see reality. for example me as a mexican.. theres plenty of people who are mexican (or their family may be maybe their parents are Mexican) but they don't admit to people they're mexican or simply just deny it.. they want nothing to do with that race and so on and so forth. some people deny they speak spanish. It angers me. Because they bring up many issues in our culture.

Why they do it I dont know. maybe they see all the negativity..and not see the postive in who we are..
same with the deaf. .maybe when they think of themselves as deaf they think.. Oh i have a "disability" (thinking like the hearing world) and they may also think oh well I can "be normal" if I stay in the hearing world and associate with the hearing world and have nothing to do with the deaf"

could be various ideas.

I think you hit the nail on the head, violet. Anytime one denies their true self, it is because they see their true self as being inferior to the majority, and they don't want to see themselves that way, nor do they want others to see them that way. But they have to be taught the concept of deaf is not as good as hearing, or Mexican is not as good as Causcasion, or English is better than sign or Spanish. If they were taught that concept, they can also unlearn it and discover how to take pride in their true self.

 

[buttkisses]

Why does everyone that is deaf have to fit into a nice little hole that you all can plug? What if this person is just happy with the way their life is? Is it just possible that OMG they really don't need to fit into any group? Just because they are deaf? Maybe they have learned to accept their way of life and are happy with it. Perhaps the real upset here is the The Deaf community is being rejected and holy crap that just cannot be!! Not by one of your own!! You all have the mentality that you MUST intervene because OMG they are deaf and they must be enlightened, their lives would be so much better if they were. Well what if they just happen to love their life the way it is, gasp, without the deaf culture and community? You all analyze so much and determine so much. According to most of you, there is just no way a deaf person can be happy without deaf culture. You use terms like Deaf, and deaf, and hearies and you want to put everyone in this nice neat little category and if some one doesn't fit, you make them fit with assumptions and a new category. God forbid any one deaf person should ever live a happy fulfilled life as a deaf person that does not fit into your nice neat little acronyms. I am willing to bet 85% of the hearing world doesn't even know there is a deaf culture and I am sure there is a percentage of deaf that don't either. I am willing to bet that at least 75% of them don't even give it merit. All they want is to cure it. Finding a cure for other disabilities is NORMAL! They would rather cure it than continue to listen to all of the "deafies" bitch about the great lengths man kind has gone through to make the hearing world more accessible to you. It is never enough, and holy crap when we do come up with something close such as an implant you all scream leave us DEAF! Is it so hard to believe that maybe a few of your own have actually become disgusted with you that they now don't want anything to do with you? Your deaf culture is a bottomless pit in a world that has much more pressing matters at hand, and perhaps, just perhaps this deaf person is not snubbing the deaf culture but rising above it. Blast away.

 

[kokonut]

I don't know - I guess I can see both sides. On one hand, it does seem like maybe she's lumping the Deaf Community together and doesn't want to be associated with them for whatever reason. On the other hand, it is her choice and I don't think it's fair to judge her decision without knowing her reasons. Maybe she really was rejected by the Deaf when she was younger. Could you really blame her for not desiring a repeat performance? Obviously, not all Deaf people are going to treat her the same way, but it's hard to ignore past experiences like that.
And there will always be people who are part of a group who don't necessarily identify with that group. My family is Irish, I grew up in Ireland, I speak Irish, but I'm not 'Irish enough' for a lot of Irish Americans. I think ethnic groups get that alot. You aren't hispanic enough, you aren't Indian enough, you aren't African enough. There will always be people who don't accept you because you aren't hardcore enough. I got the same thing when I was vegetarian from the vegans. Maybe she's been treated as if she's not Deaf enough.
I don't necessarily think she's entirely to blame for her attitudes without knowing her history. Who here can't identify with being treated poorly by a group? It's up to us to look past the experience and understand that not everyone will treat us the same way, but depending upon the extent of the negative experience, that might not always be possible.

Agree. There's not enough info to even make an appropriate determination. Not going to lose sleep over that though the girl has her reasons. Rather than get all huffy and indignant over from a second hand source I'd say get the real story first. And even if it's true I'd keep that emotion in check for the time being.

 

[jillio]

Why does everyone that is deaf have to fit into a nice little hole that you all can plug? What if this person is just happy with the way their life is? Is it just possible that OMG they really don't need to fit into any group? Just because they are deaf? Maybe they have learned to accept their way of life and are happy with it. Perhaps the real upset here is the The Deaf community is being rejected and holy crap that just cannot be!! Not by one of your own!! You all have the mentality that you MUST intervene because OMG they are deaf and they must be enlightened, their lives would be so much better if they were. Well what if they just happen to love their life the way it is, gasp, without the deaf culture and community? You all analyze so much and determine so much. According to most of you, there is just no way a deaf person can be happy without deaf culture. You use terms like Deaf, and deaf, and hearies and you want to put everyone in this nice neat little category and if some one doesn't fit, you make them fit with assumptions and a new category. God forbid any one deaf person should ever live a happy fulfilled life as a deaf person that does not fit into your nice neat little acronyms. I am willing to bet 85% of the hearing world doesn't even know there is a deaf culture and I am sure there is a percentage of deaf that don't either. I am willing to bet that at least 75% of them don't even give it merit. All they want is to cure it. Finding a cure for other disabilities is NORMAL! They would rather cure it than continue to listen to all of the "deafies" bitch about the great lengths man kind has gone through to make the hearing world more accessible to you. It is never enough, and holy crap when we do come up with something close such as an implant you all scream leave us DEAF! Is it so hard to believe that maybe a few of your own have actually become disgusted with you that they now don't want anything to do with you? Your deaf culture is a bottomless pit in a world that has much more pressing matters at hand, and perhaps, just perhaps this deaf person is not snubbing the deaf culture but rising above it. Blast away.

To answer your first question:

It is innate in human nature to seek out an in-group. People are, by nature, social creatures. They will always seek out membership in groups that reinforce their values and beliefs.

Finding a cure for disabilities is not normal. Positive self esteem, and well adjusted attitude toward self is normal. Belief that one is inferior simply because one is different is not normal. It is a self destructive pattern of thought.

 

[buttkisses]

To answer your first question:

It is innate in human nature to seek out an in-group. People are, by nature, social creatures. They will always seek out membership in groups that reinforce their values and beliefs.

Finding a cure for disabilities is not normal. Positive self esteem, and well adjusted attitude toward self is normal. Belief that one is inferior simply because one is different is not normal. It is a self destructive pattern of thought.

I see, so the only way they can be "normal" is if they seek out "like individuals" So because she is deaf she must seek out deaf individuals to be normal. If she "snubs" them she is just rejecting her disability and out of touch with who she is.

You are right, in the "animal world" and we are a part of that, seeking out cures is not normal, usually they just get left behind, but because we are human and have evolved we have feelings, those urges to find a cure are based solely out of selfish need for our future generations to go on living in a world that is unacessable like today's world is for the deaf. Oh please. There is no way to have a high self esteem, just because you are different, yet for many having a high self esteem is based on the fact that they see themselves differently from the average person. Seeing yourself as inferior has to do with the mind not your physical form. If there were a cure for deafness tomorrow many would turn it down in the Deaf culture for the sake of the culture, and that is a twisted way of thinking when it comes to the rest of the worlds view. Just as "Deaf Power and Deaf Pride" are. You say self esteem?? where is the self esteem when you hear those terms?? Isn't it pride in a culture?? God forbid a Deaf person has self esteem and self pride and the deaf culture is not involved, because then you are just snubbing a culture, IE: The Deaf proud and abnormal because you don't accept your deafness like the "normal deaf person does" Get real.

 

[Banjo]

Some people are simply insecure and in denial.

 

[jillio]

I see, so the only way they can be "normal" is if they seek out "like individuals" So because she is deaf she must seek out deaf individuals to be normal. If she "snubs" them she is just rejecting her disability and out of touch with who she is.

You are right, in the "animal world" and we are a part of that, seeking out cures is not normal, usually they just get left behind, but because we are human and have evolved we have feelings, those urges to find a cure are based solely out of selfish need for our future generations to go on living in a world that is unacessable like today's world is for the deaf. Oh please. There is no way to have a high self esteem, just because you are different, yet for many having a high self esteem is based on the fact that they see themselves differently from the average person. Seeing yourself as inferior has to do with the mind not your physical form. If there were a cure for deafness tomorrow many would turn it down in the Deaf culture for the sake of the culture, and that is a twisted way of thinking when it comes to the rest of the worlds view. Just as "Deaf Power and Deaf Pride" are. You say self esteem?? where is the self esteem when you hear those terms?? Isn't it pride in a culture?? God forbid a Deaf person has self esteem and self pride and the deaf culture is not involved, because then you are just snubbing a culture, IE: The Deaf proud and abnormal because you don't accept your deafness like the "normal deaf person does" Get real.

Normal is a very subjective term. One must first operationally define the term for the purpose it is being used.

Yes, it has to do with the mind, but the mind interprets certain physical differences as inferior.

Perhaps it is a "twisted way of thinking" in your opinion. In my opinion, I see much that is twisted and bitter in your post.

 

[jillio]

Some people are simply insecure and in denial.

That sums it up nicely.

 

[deafdyke]

She told my friend that she doesnt need the Deaf community and is not interested in meeting members of the Deaf community. Now, my question is...why say something like that? To me, this person and whoever else says that are snubbing the Deaf community for no reason

Maybe she bought into the myth that the Deaf communinity doesn't accept orally skilled people?

 

[Bottesini]

Maybe she bought into the myth that the Deaf communinity doesn't accept orally skilled people?

Are you trying to claim that oralists receive acceptance?

 

[kokonut]

Maybe it isn't quite the myth it really is and there are some truths to that matter seeing that extremisms do exist on both ends? Who knows? We can only speculate.

 

[LDNanna]

I wonder if she is late deafened?

Hey! I resemble that remark!

 

[KarissaMann05]

I see, so the only way they can be "normal" is if they seek out "like individuals" So because she is deaf she must seek out deaf individuals to be normal. If she "snubs" them she is just rejecting her disability and out of touch with who she is.

You are right, in the "animal world" and we are a part of that, seeking out cures is not normal, usually they just get left behind, but because we are human and have evolved we have feelings, those urges to find a cure are based solely out of selfish need for our future generations to go on living in a world that is unacessable like today's world is for the deaf. Oh please. There is no way to have a high self esteem, just because you are different, yet for many having a high self esteem is based on the fact that they see themselves differently from the average person. Seeing yourself as inferior has to do with the mind not your physical form. If there were a cure for deafness tomorrow many would turn it down in the Deaf culture for the sake of the culture, and that is a twisted way of thinking when it comes to the rest of the worlds view. Just as "Deaf Power and Deaf Pride" are. You say self esteem?? where is the self esteem when you hear those terms?? Isn't it pride in a culture?? God forbid a Deaf person has self esteem and self pride and the deaf culture is not involved, because then you are just snubbing a culture, IE: The Deaf proud and abnormal because you don't accept your deafness like the "normal deaf person does" Get real.

I respectfully disagreed. I was a young teen (and child too) and I had my own low esteem issues, just because I was so ashamed of my own deafness. Thanks to Deaf culture, it did help me so much. Really, I don't need a pride for my deafness. At the least, I'm really happy that I have deafness and it made a part of who I am. I don't think any D/deaf person must to have a pride for it. They would prefer to be humbly proud for what they had done morally and they accepted who they are. So, I don't see why someone should bear the much shameful feeling on his/her self esteem toward their own deafness or disability. Just a thought.

I'm sorry that Deaf community mistreated you horribly. Personally, I think you may run in a wrong crowd. Who knows?

 

[shel90]

Why does everyone that is deaf have to fit into a nice little hole that you all can plug? What if this person is just happy with the way their life is? Is it just possible that OMG they really don't need to fit into any group? Just because they are deaf? Maybe they have learned to accept their way of life and are happy with it. Perhaps the real upset here is the The Deaf community is being rejected and holy crap that just cannot be!! Not by one of your own!! You all have the mentality that you MUST intervene because OMG they are deaf and they must be enlightened, their lives would be so much better if they were. Well what if they just happen to love their life the way it is, gasp, without the deaf culture and community? You all analyze so much and determine so much. According to most of you, there is just no way a deaf person can be happy without deaf culture. You use terms like Deaf, and deaf, and hearies and you want to put everyone in this nice neat little category and if some one doesn't fit, you make them fit with assumptions and a new category. God forbid any one deaf person should ever live a happy fulfilled life as a deaf person that does not fit into your nice neat little acronyms. I am willing to bet 85% of the hearing world doesn't even know there is a deaf culture and I am sure there is a percentage of deaf that don't either. I am willing to bet that at least 75% of them don't even give it merit. All they want is to cure it. Finding a cure for other disabilities is NORMAL! They would rather cure it than continue to listen to all of the "deafies" bitch about the great lengths man kind has gone through to make the hearing world more accessible to you. It is never enough, and holy crap when we do come up with something close such as an implant you all scream leave us DEAF! Is it so hard to believe that maybe a few of your own have actually become disgusted with you that they now don't want anything to do with you? Your deaf culture is a bottomless pit in a world that has much more pressing matters at hand, and perhaps, just perhaps this deaf person is not snubbing the deaf culture but rising above it. Blast away.

No, she doesnt have to be a part of the Deaf community but the fact that she sees us as one group and outright reject us as a whole group rather than really getting to know each individual person. That's the whole point. I guess I can reject the hearing world. That would be silly, wouldnt it be?

 

[shel90]

I see, so the only way they can be "normal" is if they seek out "like individuals" So because she is deaf she must seek out deaf individuals to be normal. If she "snubs" them she is just rejecting her disability and out of touch with who she is.

You are right, in the "animal world" and we are a part of that, seeking out cures is not normal, usually they just get left behind, but because we are human and have evolved we have feelings, those urges to find a cure are based solely out of selfish need for our future generations to go on living in a world that is unacessable like today's world is for the deaf. Oh please. There is no way to have a high self esteem, just because you are different, yet for many having a high self esteem is based on the fact that they see themselves differently from the average person. Seeing yourself as inferior has to do with the mind not your physical form. If there were a cure for deafness tomorrow many would turn it down in the Deaf culture for the sake of the culture, and that is a twisted way of thinking when it comes to the rest of the worlds view. Just as "Deaf Power and Deaf Pride" are. You say self esteem?? where is the self esteem when you hear those terms?? Isn't it pride in a culture?? God forbid a Deaf person has self esteem and self pride and the deaf culture is not involved, because then you are just snubbing a culture, IE: The Deaf proud and abnormal because you don't accept your deafness like the "normal deaf person does" Get real.

Apparently u have some hatred towards the Deaf community which is fine. So, does that mean u would reject anyone who is a part of the Deaf community without getting to know the person first?

That's the whole point of my question.

This person complained to my friend about not fitting in the hearing world. Go figure.

 

[shel90]

Maybe she bought into the myth that the Deaf communinity doesn't accept orally skilled people?

My friend who is culturally Deaf is also oral. That was how she and that girl were able to communicate with each other. When that girl complained to her about her issues of not fitting in with the hearing world, my friend suggested the Deaf community and ASL and that was when she made those comments. My friend was just telling me how confused she was by that girl on how she didnt "need" the Deaf community. My friend said she never told the girl anything like that..just informing her about the Deaf community and ASL and if she was interested. Was just a very common phrase being said over and over again by hearing parents of deaf children, deaf people and some hearing people.

We are not ONE person. We are all different. :roll: